What advice should feature in a public information film about cycle safety?

For cyclists:

Obey the rules
Filter only stationary or crawling traffic
Have proper brakes
Wear high viz
Have decent lights with at least one bright steady one*
Look over your shoulder a lot
Don’t take anything for granted

For motorists:

Don’t just swing past as if they aren’t there
LOOK
They have every right to be there and they have right of way if they are in front of you
Not all of them jump red lights just like not all of you drink and drive

Anything else? I find it odd that we’ve had motorbike safety campaigns for both sides for years, but nothing for cyclists.

* I’m amazed at how invisible cyclists can be when they’ve just got a tiny slow flasher on, against a backdrop of other bright lights.

for motorists:

If you’ve just overtaken a cyclist, they haven’t then vanished from the face of the earth. They may actually catch you up.

Always check for cyclists when letting other cars out of junctions.

Only overtake cyclists when necessary – ie not when there is slow moving traffic in front of you.

Do not overtake cyclists on the approach to a roundabout.

Wear high viz – don’t agree. Wear clothing that makes you visible.

Wouldn’t help, people who don’t give a fig still won’t give a fig

Eye contact with drivers.
Cycle a fair distance from the edge of the road.

For cyclists:

Don’t ride in the gutter. Establish a position in the road appropriate to the conditions.

Wear high viz – Don’t agree with that at all. Why dictate what people wear?

Cyclists
Don’t always think that the ASL is the best place to be, sometimes it makes more sense to sit in the line of traffic.
Don’t ride in the gutter
Don’t filter through traffic if you don’t know the sequence of lights
Don’t expect drivers to know what you’re going to do

Drivers
Give us room
Don’t park in cycle lanes
Don’t try to overtake a cyclist at a left hand junction
If there’s a parked vehicle then I obviously need to move round it so let me out – you would do the same for a car.
I have bright lights so I can see in the dark, you have bright lights why can’t I.

I could go on.

Motorists:

For god’s sake, it is not the end of the world if you have to wait five seconds to get past someone moving slightly slower than you. You’re only going to get stuck at the next set of lights anyway.

Give people on bikes plenty of space, don’t overtake if you can’t see it’s definitely safe to do so.

Cyclists are *allowed* to ride two-up, they do it cos it’s safer and makes your overtake shorter. If it’s not safe to get past two riders it’s generally not safe to get past one.

People on bikes are PEOPLE, with kids and loved ones, remember that. Also whilst you won’t die if you hit us, we will make a right **** mess of your paintwork and bump up your insurance premium, so there’s that.

Cyclists:

Remember, you are soft and squishy and everyone in a car hates you and wants you to die.

Cyclists – if a vehicle longer than your house is pulled up at a red traffic light, or moving slowly in traffic, don’t ride up the inside of it EVER!!!

seconded on the bit for motorists about the variations on inappropriate overtaking. Especially in town, bizarrely.

I stay in a relatively low populated town, but sections of road I sometimes go along are lethal. Revved overtakes just before a roundabout (so cut back in as soon as they pass, sharp braking all round), and squeezed overtakes with road / pedestrian pinch points fast approaching.

“You don’t /have/ to overtake – and look ahead to what’s on the road ahead.”

“Cyclists aren’t travelling as slowly as you think – especially in town traffic”

I think an information film needs to be the icing on a bigger cake.

For all the investment in cycling infrastructure theres been and all the further investment thats being called for…. I think the most valuable thing would be to stop investing and actually arrive at a consensus on what the strategy and the advice should be – make it a national strategy and make sure the people who devise and implement cycle provision are all similarly qualified to do so and are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

At the moment we’ve got a cycle provision that steers cyclists in to road positions that are ripe for being killed, cycle provision thats so dumb and prescriptive that cyclists can only really ignore it, cycle provision that isn’t maintained and provision that isn’t complete – theres a signed cycle route in glasgow that leads riders into a fenced cup-de-sac – the signs have been there for a decade.

The infrastructure is at odds with the public information campaigns – lanes steer you to the left of traffic, signs on buses and trucks steer you away from the left of traffic. Cycle lanes push cyclists into the gutter, the advice is claims space in the traffic.

I think if the cycling lobby should be campaigning for anything it should be a campaign to stop making provision and not start again until it’s going to be done properly. Maybe a 3 year moratorium then in year 4 spend 4 years budget on correcting the mistakes of the past.

Its ridiculous really – there are acres of internet dedicated to poorly executed cycle infrastructure, either because its hilarious, derisory or dangerous. The people who design motorway slip roads don’t **** it up completely, in a different way, every single time. Theres presumably a set of agreed conventions about how a slip road should be designed and some letters after than name of the person who designs and specifies it. How is there a situation where people are designing traffic infrastructure without seemingly without qualification or strategy.

If we had a coherent strategy and it was applied then a pertinent then a film could have some effect.

But in absence of that – a public information film not about cycling particularly:

Be Careful
Be Polite
Something unexpected might happen
If it does be nice about it.

Cyclists – if a vehicle longer than your house is pulled up at a red traffic light, or moving slowly in traffic, don’t ride up the inside of it EVER!!!

The size of the vehicle is irrelevant – the blind spot in my SWB sprinter is big enough to hide a 17 ton truck – passing any vehicle on the left is problematic – even if vehicles could see you thats not where drivers are looking, filtering past traffic on the left is dumb even if you’re riding on a painted stripe on the tarmac that implies you have permission.

Whilst probably not absolutely technically accurate they make the point clearly enough.

This:

And this (but put the metal pavement railings in).

A film or ad campaign would cost probably as much as half a mile of crap cycleway in sommewhere-on-sea and I think would do far more good across the whole country.

A film or ad campaign would cost probably as much as half a mile of crap cycleway in sommewhere-on-sea and I think would do far more good across the whole country.

not if it doesn’t prevent the construction of crap cycleway

I’d ask that drivers think of cyclists like children, they need to be given more consideration due to their vulnerability. This is where I get annoyed at comments from senoir Cops and politicos in london, who say we have to be more careful. We don’t destroy trucks, buses and cars…They destroy us.

biggest thing IMO is can the cyclist be seen by the drivers, this doesn’t mean hi vizz it means are you in the right position to be seen

@IanWalker: “In light of recent cycle deaths, let’s take a moment to remember the hundreds of thousands who’ve died this year from not exercising enough”

This is the key message. Cycling is near-enough as safe as walking, and if more people did it we’d have fewer premature deaths.

We, as cyclists, could also do with being less militant. Well, some of us. Anger doesn’t build bridges between commmunities.

I think the positives have to be stressed:

The only people who report enjoying their commute are those who walk, run or ride. Fitness /health benefits. Consistent journey times, etc.

Cycle on pavements. If roads are deemed that unsafe that any pedestrian walking on them should FACE oncoming traffic, there’s absolutely no way a cyclist who is less able to quickly jump out of harms can be safe cycling on them.

Don’t undertake cars especially if there turning left

Don’t undertake cars especially if there turning left

Do learn the difference between undertaking and filtering.

if in doubt, give it a clout

Cycle on pavements. If roads are deemed that unsafe that any pedestrian walking on them should FACE oncoming traffic, there’s absolutely no way a cyclist who is less able to quickly jump out of harms can be safe cycling on them.

I do sometimes wonder if cyclists should run contra to traffic, or be able to choose to. Not in towns but on rural roads. So ride with the traffic in towns – ride with or against as you see fit in the country. Similarly as a pedestrian I’d normally walk towards the traffic on a country road but its not always the best place to be so I often cross if being on the right means I’m hidden from oncoming traffic.

Do learn the difference between undertaking and filtering.

Its undertaking if you get hit, its filtering if you live.

cyclists:

all vehicles and pedestrians are trying to kill you

you are invisible no matter what you wear or flash

occupy your space

look into their eyes

assume the worst

don’t get wound up

I thnk you could just run a video of a scrote riding a BSO down the Highway towards Limehouse on any evening then we could all watch said scrote pulling wheelies with his hood up whilst listening to music via earphones and texting his latest bit on the side.

The just have a strap line stating..

“Don’t ride yer bike like this, you’ll die”

That’ll do it I reckon.

Drive a car first and learn how to use the road properly in a “safer” environment.

I thnk you could just run a video of a scrote riding a BSO down the Highway towards Limehouse on any evening then we could all watch said scrote pulling wheelies with his hood up whilst listening to music via earphones and texting his latest bit on the side.

The just have a strap line stating..

“Don’t ride yer bike like this, you’ll die”

That’ll do it I reckon.

That implies that killed cyclists are generally at fault. This isn’t the case, and the cyclist described above doesn’t fit the ‘type’ of rider we see being killed.

Make riding on the pavement legal, only that’s because I have to ride on it if I want to live to see my next birthday

This is where I get annoyed at comments from senoir Cops and politicos in london, who say we have to be more careful. We don’t destroy trucks, buses and cars…

Hmm. Perhaps we should start. Where can I get me some dynamite?

We, as cyclists, could also do with being less militant. Well, some of us. Anger doesn’t build bridges between commmunities.

With all due respect, **** that shit. If we don’t get angry we’ll get nothing.

You’re right in that stroppy helmetcam riders yelling at dickhead drivers gets us nowhere though. The anger needs to be directed productively, we need to properly convey it to politicians and traffic engineers and the police and those in charge of the justice system, etc.

Anger doesn’t build bridges between communities.

it starts the ball rolling though. in some situations you need to shout to get people to listen.

Not this one though, which is already filled with shouting.

You’re right in that stroppy helmetcam riders yelling at dickhead drivers gets us nowhere though.

That’s what I meant by not being angry. I didn’t mean just accepting things as they are, of course.

A D lock makes a great weapon? no? oh ok.

for cars:
bikes are allowed to filter, watch for them.
overtake only when it is safe alear ahead to do so.
bikes are faster than cars, they will catch you and overtake you, get over yourself -defo in london

bikes:
ride in an assertive but not agressive position
dont filter at junctions unless you know the light sequence
lights on in nbad weather, dusk and night and make sure they work well.

I think an ad campaign would be good, something like the old traffic light safety one where the chap in a bowler hat crosses the lights and forgets his brolly OR where Charlie the cat shouldnt play with matches.

ride off road- its fun and nobody wants to kill you !!!!!

I’m going to say this again – some of you have no real understanding of risk. Cycling isn’t particularly unsafe – not compared to walking. For example in London during 2012 there were 69 pedestrians killed against 14 cyclists, and 1,054 pedestrian and 657 cyclist serious injuries.
On that basis pedestrians should be banned from London streets, surely?

So I’ll look for a job located that’s connected to my house only by trails, shall I? I’d be one of the lucky ones if I found one…

Cycling isn’t particularly unsafe – not compared to walking. For example in London during 2012 there were 69 pedestrians killed against 14 cyclists

Are you SURE you’re not quoting misleading stats? Is there nothing missing from that picture?

How many pedestrian journeys were made and how many cycle journeys..?

EDIT I found this without looking too hard:

In their fourth Travel in London report, TfL estimate that 500,000 cycle trips (where cycling is the dominant form of transport in the trip) take place every day in London (for 2010). This compares to 5,900,000 estimated walking trips.

and this

there were 2,609 cycling KSIs in London per one billion trips in 2010. For pedestrians, there were 425 KSIs in London per one billion trips in 2010. For fatalities, there were 56 deaths per one billion trips for cyclists. For pedestrians, the total was 27 deaths per billion trips

From http://fullfact.org/factchecks/cyclist_safety_dangerous_pedestrian_walking_KSI_rate_olympics-27711

I’d still say my Wheelie’ing scrote Vids the best idea so far… 😆

Yes, I’m immensely sure, I got those figures directly from the TfL document here so I’ve gone to the source document and you’ve found second hand stuff. Over to you?
Next time I’m in Palestra shall I go and have a chat with the guys?