Well it went a bit quiet in here when I watched this…

I think it is important motorbike riders mostly leave their lights on too.

As I’ve already stated, bikes have had their lights hard wired on for many years now. There’s not even a switch to turn them off. It was a voluntary action agreed between all the motorcycle manufacturers. My wife’s 2002 bike had the lights hard wired on, put it that way.

Why am I going to take myself or anyone else out ? HAve a word with yourself, seriously

Good point. It never happens. Can’t think of a single example. 🙄

Would the motor cyclist have been prosecuted if he’d survived?

I don’t know why it’s such a problem to stick to the speed limit. It would be a decent starting point.

Maybe.. or maybe he’d have hit someone 10 mins earlier who he missed as he was 15s further in his journey… or maybe he’d have got home earlier and slipped in the bath … who knows… maybe it was just his day/time and that’s the end of it. Speed was a factor in his death… however, not the only factor.

No “maybe not” about it. Speed was the primary contributing factor in his death unfortunately.

I’m sitting here with blokes who selfishly throw themselves down mountains, through trees, over jumps etc and yet somehow I’m the one who’s selfishly having fun and putting myself at risk LOL.

1) You’re putting OTHERS at risk

2) You’re far less likely to die MTBing that hooning around on a motorbike. Surely you cannot argue with that?

1) You’re putting OTHERS at risk

2) You’re far less likely to die MTBing that hooning around on a motorbike. Surely you cannot argue with that?

1. In your opinion

2. Hmmmmm. Far less… I’d argue, some less.. not far less. But like I say, people die of MANY things, very small percentages are motorbike related. Whilst you arguably have a point here.. it’s not THAT many people who die on motorbikes…

Edit : For discussion, I think we’ve seen 3-4 people who have died here in the last year when cycling ? (OK, not necessarily cycling related). This year on the motorbiking equivalent we’ve had none.

We’ve arguably had less broken bone injuries on the Motorbike forum too (apart from Trackdaysriders forum, but they’re all nutty fast track gods)

Indeed. If people want to kill themselves by racing about at 100mph, that’s their decision – but doing it where they could easily injure or kill others is criminally dangerous.

1) You’re putting OTHERS at risk

2) You’re far less likely to die MTBing that hooning around on a motorbike. Surely you cannot argue with that?

1. In your opinion

2. Hmmmmm. Far less… I’d argue, some less.. not far less. But like I say, people die of MANY things, very small percentages are motorbike related. Whilst you arguably have a point here.. it’s not THAT many people who die on motorbikes…

In everyones opinion. If you are speeding / riding without due care or attention on a public highway you are automatically putting other people at risk.

Motorcyclists are roughly 38 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than car occupants, per mile ridden

30 motorcyclists are killed or injured every day at junctions

Not “very small” numbers.

Also – you’re not just killing yourself, you’re killing someone’s son or daughter, or someone’s father, or someone’s best friend etc. Your own kids’ father, even worse.

etc and yet somehow I’m the one who’s selfishly having fun and putting myself at risk LOL

They are not breaking the law and taking anyone else with them though, that’s the massive difference your self cantered view doesn’t allow you to see,
I know too many people whose lives have been ended or changed for the worse by the actions of people like you who think the road is their personal playground.

Can’t you take up an extreme sport where it’s only your neck you break or save the heroics for the track.

weeksy;

30 motorcyclists are killed or injured every day at junctions

Motorcyclists are roughly 38 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than car occupants, per mile ridden

In 2013, 331 motorcyclists died and 4,866 were seriously injured in road collisions in Great Britain.

from http://think.direct.gov.uk/motorcycles.html

Also – you’re not just killing yourself, you’re killing someone’s son or daughter, or someone’s father, or someone’s best friend etc. Your own kids’ father, even worse.

Dude, keep a grip on reality… I’m not hooning at 140mph towards oncoming traffic in the wrong like like a Fast and Furious movie… I’m riding faster than some(most) of you deem appropriate at times, but completely within myself. I’m not setting out with a warrior cry and praying to the gods I make it back safely mostly using pure luck.

I’m just an average bloke going out to see some buddies.

This is the real sad state of a lot of peoples mindsets on the roads today, both motorcyclists and car drivers. It’s completely selfish and wreckless

How do you selfishly throw yourself down a mountain?

Can’t you take up an extreme sport where it’s only your neck you break or save the heroics for the track.

Riding to a mates house and doing 100mph isn’t ‘heroics’.

Is BPW an extreme sport ? Did you miss the part where most of my riding is on track ?

1. In your opinion

No?! Drivers do get killed by motorcycles, I’m fairly sure.

I’d argue, some less.. not far less.

From a previous STW thread: http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/2006/02000/Mountain_Biking_Injuries_Requiring_Trauma_Center.10.aspx

One death in ten years in Vancouver, a pretty big MTB hotspot. In the UK in 2011 there were 362 motorcyclists killed. Hmm…

Very brave of his family to share the video. And idiot car driver not seeing the motorcyclist but a one travelling at 97mph would come very quick, speed would be a massive factor in his fatal injuries. I’m pretty sure his family intend the warning to be for both car drivers and motorcyclists.

How do you selfishly throw yourself down a mountain?

Because it has no purpose, it has no function, apart from fullfiling a selfish need for enjoyment. IT’s 100% a selfish thing to do. You could crash and injure yourself as MANY on here do time and time again, not because you were commuting to work etc, but because YOU wanted fun.

Edit : For discussion, I think we’ve seen 3-4 people who have died here in the last year when cycling ? (OK, not necessarily cycling related). This year on the motorbiking equivalent we’ve had none.

Wow! You are seriously deluded. Is this how you convince yourself that your dangerous behaviour is ok? There 3-400 motorcycle deaths every year. To compare it to mountain biking is, in your own words. comical.

I’m riding faster than some(most) is suitable for public roads of you deem that is completely inappropriate at all times, but completely within myself(in my selfish opinion).

FTFY

I’m riding faster than some(most) of you deem appropriate at times, but completely within myself.

You’ve missed the whole point of the video. IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU it’s about the other people on the roads making mistakes!

Its safe to say all sorts of driving habits would be fine if there were no other motorists. But we share the roads.

You might be able to ride at 100mph safely, as may others. But anyone can make mistakes, not going stupid fast has a big limiting factor on the consequences f the mistake, speed isn;t really speed, its time and distance. both of which have a big impact on what happens after the mistake. Only later does is translate to force and injure or kill you.

You want to ride how you like, regardless of the rules, go to a track (which, yes, still have rules, but you get the idea). By riding on the roads you are essentially agreeing to a common code of conduct.

Weeksy, selfish – doing something for own enjoyment is different than selfish where it kills or injures someone else?

I.e you are at liberty to enjoy yourself quite unselfishly in my opinion providing you don’t screw someone else’s day up. That’s selfish. The other’s choice.

I can imagine if you’d stopped that bloke in the video 200yards before he died he’d have put forward exactly the same argument that weeksy is.

Didn’t help him much that he was ‘within himself’.

It’s not about you weeksy it’s about everyone else.

plus what if you are ‘riding within yourself’ and you hit something on the road, like oil/diesel/the wrong kind of leaves and that causes you to crash?

If you hit someone then your speed has a direct effect on how much you are going to injure them – this is why there is a 30mph speed limit in urban areas – much over that and a pedestrians chances of surviving an impact go drastically downwards.

And there is also the issue of saccades which means their might be nothing the other party could have done to see you, especially if you are coming at him too fast.

Or what if you are momentarily unobservant, like weeksy has admitted to being once? The consequences of being momentarily unobservant also increase dramatically with speed.

LHS – Member

No “maybe not” about it. Speed was the primary contributing factor in his death unfortunately.

The primary contributing factor- by a long way- was someone driving a car in front of him.

The primary contributing factor- by a long way- was someone driving a car in front of him.

Disagree, if the rider had been riding at an appropriate speed the car driver would have seen him approaching. Riding at close to 100mph at a junction in the road where 40mph would be the appropriate speed doesn’t give the car driver a chance. Both are at fault, but this accident would not have happened if the motorbike rider was following the highway code.

The primary contributing factor- by a long way- was someone driving a car in front of him.

Being on that road at that particular time doing 90 had a little bit to do with it too

Disagree, if the rider had been riding at an appropriate speed the car driver would have seen him approaching

Consdiering how many car/car accidents there are at 30mph that’s a ridiculous assumption to make.

Nothing rediculous about it, there is a vast difference between people being able to see you, you see them and react when you are doing 40mph or 100mph. If you don’t understand that, you should not be riding on the public roads.

Highway code rule 146 in case you were wondering.

LHS – Member

Nothing rediculous about it, there is a vast difference between people being able to see you, you see them and react when you are doing 40mph or 100mph. If you don’t understand that, you should not be riding on the public roads.

Highway code rule 146 in case you were wondering.

How do 5mph car-park accidents happen ? Or cars collied at 20mph ? pushbikes knocked off at walking speed.

Assuming someone would have not had an accident just because they were going slower is ridiculous. IT’s entirely possible they may not… but it’s far from certain.

How do 5mph car-park accidents happen ? Or cars collied at 20mph ? pushbikes knocked off at walking speed.

Assuming someone would have not had an accident just because they were going slower is ridiculous. IT’s entirely possible they may not… but it’s far from certain.

Your argument makes no sense, if cars bump at 5mph, no one is going to get killed. What’s your point?

LHS – Member

Disagree, if the rider had been riding at an appropriate speed the car driver would have seen him approaching.

That’s a massive assumption- we know that the driver failed to see either the bike or the car behind despite the Police saying he should have been visible. That hardly points the finger at speed. And we know the driver did finally see the bike, but far too late- that sort of lack of observation is dangerous at any speed.

“Speaking at yesterday’s inquest, PC Graham Brooks said both motorists would have been in each other’s available view for seven seconds before impact.”

In other words- as said by many- the bike’s speed made the collision far worse. Responsibility for that lies only with the rider. But the car pulling out into oncoming traffic is the only reason there was a collision. And that would still have been dangerous even with a massive reduction of speed.

Bikes don’t become harder to see at speed, they don’t redshift out of the visible spectrum. The driver should have seen the bike, at 20 or 200mph, and he shouldn’t have pulled out into traffic. He might have got away with it if the bike had been at a lower speed, and the rider might have survived at a lower speed, but none of that changes the basic causes.

What’s your point?

going slower doesn’t necessarily mean an accident cannot happen or people will see eachother.

I am not a perfect driver or a perfect cyclist, I try my best but none of us are, no matter how much you might like to think it.

When I drive I not only look out for expected behaviour but I also I look out for other people making mistakes, and/or driving and riding stupidly, I hope other people also do the same for those moments when I make mistakes.

As lots of people have already said, there’s food for thought for everyone and every type of road user in this video, it’s not about who is to blame, it’s about how to avoid this kind of thing in the future.

Even if you are driving or riding 100% to the letter of the law and appropriately* for the conditions you could still end up being involved in a serious or fatal collision, it may be 100% not your fault, but you will still have to deal with the emotional repercussions of having been involved, and I bet you will be thinking ‘could I have done something to avoid this?‘

********************************************

And that is what this video is about.

Whoever you are, whatever you are doing,
THINK about your actions,
Drive/ride with other people in mind,
They may not be as perfect as you,
I don’t want to kill anyone, not even an idiot

*********************************************

*in your eyes…

The driver should have seen the bike, at 20 or 200mph, and he shouldn’t have pulled out into traffic

If you believe that, then you really shouldn’t be on public roads.

going slower doesn’t necessarily mean an accident cannot happen or people will see eachother.

It makes it an order of magnitude less likely, an even higher order of magnitude that evasive action can be taken, and an even higher order of magnitude that you won’t be killed.

LHS – Member

If you believe that, then you really shouldn’t be on public roads.

This… I don’t understand at all tbh. Which part do you think makes me an unfit driver? The fact that I don’t think you should pull out into oncoming traffic? Or the fact that I think you should be looking where you’re going? I didn’t think these are that contentious tbh. And neither does the law or the judge, since he was convicted of causing death by careless driving because of his inadequate observation which caused the crash.

“PC Brooks said there was no reason why the driver of the Clio, Benjamin Austin, had failed to see Mr Holmes approaching on his bike.

He said: “Witnesses behind Mr Austin say they had seen it and were aware of its presence.””

going slower doesn’t necessarily mean an accident cannot happen or people will see eachother

Obviously, weeksy, but it makes accidents less likely and it gives people more chance to see you.

You really need to get off the defensive and think about what this mother is trying to say.

You really need to get off the defensive and think about what this mother is trying to say.

It’s hard not to be defensive when people seem to perceive you in a bad way and are basically attacking you.

TBH fella, I’m not being defensive much, I’m simply trying to give a perspective that most on here cannot see and don’t agree with. However, that doesn’t make my opinion any less valid.

Oh and one more thing. Seeing someone isn’t enough, you have to be able to judge speed. I always pull out when I can see other cars, but when they are a long way off and not doing 100mph that’s fine. No-one expects people to be doing 100mph, so by doing that speed you ate making it way harder for everyone else to avoid accidents.

However, that doesn’t make my opinion any less valid.

Problem is, this is not a matter of opinion really, it’s a matter of physics. And neurology too.

It’s hard not to be defensive when people seem to perceive you in a bad way and are basically attacking you.

I have always seen you as a good bloke and I have absolutely no animosity towards you, but please just consider that you mate actually be wrong in this case.