Well it went a bit quiet in here when I watched this…

3. If he’d taken 4 s longer to pull his zip up he would have been in the same place and potentially still killed.

I’m not into blame, but to be honest, the video barely registered an emotion in me. Not sure what that says about me, or you lot.

Before we get too deep and someone asks, yes, I’ve lost someone close in almost the exact same scenario as the bid, but the car was doing a u turn. She was a good friend. I’ve also lost other bike mates in accidents. I’ve crashed a few times, well,lots, but mostly on track.

Having just passed my bike test on Monday it does make me think!

Life is so fragile, only takes a moment of stupidity and it’s the people around you who live with it.

3. If he’d taken 4 s longer to pull his zip up he would have been in the same place and potentially still killed.

I’m not into blame, but to be honest, the video barely registered an emotion in me. Not sure what that says about me, or you lot.

Weeksy, would you say that accidents like that are just part and parcel of riding?

One of the few things I try put to the back of my head when climbing (especially in winter) is that even if you do everything perfectly, things can still go wrong (holds pulling off, rockfall, avalanche). It’s just part of the risk of the sport – you can’t control some things, so you just accept them and control those that you can.

Would you say that a driver making a bad move that you couldn’t avoid was an accident that shouldn’t have happened, or just your luck running out?

My uncle was almost decapitated when he slid under a car many years ago (survived, but with some pretty significant damage). He’s never been on the road on a bike since, but has another 20+ years of riding at tracks. He looks back at when he used to ride quick on the road as just being a big gamble, which he didn’t really fully appreciate at the time.

I’ve got to say, I struggled to get emotional about the video, I just associate riding fast on roads with accidents like that (probably thanks to campaigns like that!) and I’m not very good with empathy anyway. Sad anyway though. I’m also just frustrated that I always see things like this whenever I look at getting a bike licence! Maybe I’m just finding reasons not to get one?

sharkbait – Member

2) It’s pretty difficult to judge the speed of something heading straight for you when it’s going that fast and in light of this the driver could reasonably have expected the bikes speed to be about 60.

In which case, he still shouldn’t have pulled out- the bike would have arrived a second or two later, the gap is still far too small.

But that’s beside the point since the driver didn’t misjudge the speed or the gap, he failed to see the bike (and the car). And speed doesn’t change that, because he would have failed to see the bike at 90 or 60, and would have still pulled in front of it due to his inadequate observation. And the bike would have still had very little chance of avoiding the car. The only differences are that possibly the car would have cleared the junction and it might have become a near miss instead (though the evidence suggests he’d have panicked and hit the brakes when he realised he’d pulled into traffic). And of course, if a collision had happened at lower speed the rider’s chances would have been better (though still very bad)

The morals of the story are, look where you’re going or you’ll kill someone. Also that you should drive/ride on the basis that there are people on the road who’re not looking, because when you’re dead you don’t care whose fault it was, and because you can make yourself safer even when other people are making you less safe.

Not sure what that says about me

Probably just that you have been in similar position and are not shocked by it.

Most of the people on here will have more experience and sharper skills in dealing with risk. It is good to be reminded that some who drive don’t have the same reflexes and you don’t know where these people are on the road.

100mph on that road on a modern bike is normally fine

Eh? Tell me you’re not serious. To me it looks like suicidal riding. Way too fast, way too much going on, so many things that could (and did) go wrong.

100% commitment by the rider no plan B even less a plan C. How could anyone approach a junction at that speed and expect everyone else to do the right thing?

Sad but some people just aren’t cut out to ride motorbikes

Lots of questions Peter.

I’m not sure I know the answers though sorry.

Part and parcel in the same way as heart attacks, cancer etc, yes I guess so.

I guess reading guy martins book recently gave me cause for thought as much as this video, he was saying how selfish he is,but that he never feels fear on the bike.
I can relate in the fact that my life goal was to race the Manx/TT. Sadly I wasn’t good enough and after 3 years of injury enforced on off racing, I called it a day.

Where the selfish part in one comes in, is that if I could, I’d race the island tomorrow. Despite it being selfish and having a 6 year old.

I’ve kind of lost where imgoiing with this now and don’t want to come over like more of a tosser than most of STW now thinks, so going to bed to watch the Vuelta

I learned to ride a motorbike down that road. It was the first place I rode after passing my test and I ride up and down it probably once a fortnight or so.

That video has had a bit of an effect. 😐

Rachel

slow down everyone you’re driving too fast!

been said before but never hurts to repeat it, it may make a difference to someone one day

slow down,
expect other road users to make mistakes
be ready to brake when you are approaching any type of hazzard.
I used to just rest a finger on the brake around traffic/side roads etc.

nobody is such a skilled rider/driver that they cannot improve

stay safe people, please keep racing on the track where it belongs 🙂

I’m with who ever mentioned commentary up there.

I’m a biker and love going quick. Quite often head to the alps to ride, but watching that had me panicking at the speed he was riding. Partly because I knew there was a crash coming, but mostly because my brain couldn’t keep up. The fish eye lens might have something to do with it, but for me I couldn’t ride that speed on the road where there’s traffic moving at 90 and 180 degrees to me. On a track, yes, but on an open road that’s way too fast.

The fact still stands though, the driver pulled out on a vehicle. You only have to be unobservant or distracted once.

What a sad state of affairs and what a brave Mum.

Ridden motorbikes for well over 30 years and hate to say it but the video didn’t effect me that much.

I’m well aware of the risks I take every time I hit the starter button and head out for a ride.

I ride fast (very fast, my current bike has 160bhp at the rear wheel) when I deem it safe / appropriate to do so. I have a wife and two daughters so my passion for motorbikes / speed is always tempered with the need to get home in one piece.

Though the driver was at fault in that video, as a vulnerable 2 wheeled road user the onus is in you to anticipate crap driving ( as best you can) and stay alive. I regularly ride well into 3 figures mph on the road, but NEVER approaching a junction or any scenario where I judge the risk too great to do so (laybys, farm entrances, car parks etc).

Very sad, and RIP rider, but in 95% of bike accidents the rider (I’m including cyclists here) has some share of the responsibility (even if a tiny %).

I love riding bikes. I love staying alive.

Reading the intensity of this debate and seeing how many posts it’s got in a short space of time, I hope this video goes viral – then it’ll do it’s job and the mother’s decision to do it won’t have been in vain…

I’ve watched the video a few times and yeah the bike was going way too fast but that driver simply didn’t see him properly.

I don’t like motorbikes but it seems the silver car he overtook had moved a bit to the nearside and he actually waved a thank you to it about 2 seconds before impact with the Clio so I’m just thinking he was concentrating on that and not the junction.

The video didn’t bother me, but the links posted earlier in this thread which show the Clio with no front end on shocked me that a motorbike and rider could do that much damage. If the bike had been slower, he would have been able to brake or he would have gone behind the Clio.

TBH Im more shocked by the attitude of the speed cocks who feel the law doesn’t really apply to them and the 180mph motorbike apologists on STW than the video.

An erstwhile member of this site used to boast about riding his motorbike at “speeds that would make your eyes bleed”. My opinion of that was that he was a cock for doing so.

97mph? FFS!

Yes, it’s a shame and all that, but…..

I’m well aware of the risks I take every time I hit the starter button and head out for a ride

Are you aware of the risks you force other people to take? You can still kill someone on a motorbike, and you can sure as hell traumatise someone.

Please don’t kill me, for the sake of my kids. I do try but I will be making a mistake at some point in the future. I and my family would appreciate it if you didn’t punish me by death.

97mph approaching a junction is unacceptable.

Not judging the speed of an approaching vehicle travelling at 97mph is unacceptable.

You must allow for mistakes as much as possible. Both those of yourself and others.

His mother is very brave, and I’m glad she released this video.

I read all the posts then watched it.

The roads are full of not very good drivers, people making mistakes, difficult junctions, people who’ve had a bad day, idiots who are texting or eating or arguing with a partner or child. We might be some of them.

I know of too many people, including a police motorcyclist, who have died because either they ran out of skill, or luck, or forgot others had less skill.

The road markings were very clear. All the red surface and lines should have made it clear to both that this was a danger zone. The car driver made a bad mistake. The motorcyclist’s speed, and simple physics and energy made sure he paid for it by dying.

The macho stupidity of some of those on here, who have posted similarly before, that 60% faster than the speed limit through a junction on a single carriageway road is ok, beggars belief. They obviously don’t care about getting to see their kids again. And I have seen totally innocent car drivers whose lives have been damaged severely by being hit by motorcyclists doing stupid things. It isn’t just your own health you risk.

The roads are full of idiots. If you are skilful and clever, use those skills to avoid them.

Weeksy , do you really want “he died defending his right of way” to be the epitaph your kids see on your gravestone?

But we need to move away from the basic simplistic “Speed kills” rubbish!

No, it’s inappropriate speed that kills.

It’s quite possible to ride or drive safely at well over the posted limit (which is just an arbitrary number afterall). And by the same token, it is often necessary to ride or drive at well under the posted limit.

The issue with the “slow down” don’t exceed the limit suggestion is that is removes a critical decision making process from the driver, that of proceeding at an APPROPRIATE speed.

The busier, the roads become, the less attention riders and drivers pay to their surroundings, and the more people just “drive by numbers” the more common exactly this kind of accident is going to become. Luckily, thanks to modern cars, these sorts of accidents are now often survivable, but unfortunately that doesn’t apply to pedestrians, pedal and motor cyclists……

weeksy – Member

Before we get too deep and someone asks, yes, I’ve lost someone close in almost the exact same scenario as the bid, but the car was doing a u turn. She was a good friend. I’ve also lost other bike mates in accidents. I’ve crashed a few times, well,lots, but mostly on track.

Grib 🙁

rocketman – Member

100mph on that road on a modern bike is normally fine

Eh? Tell me you’re not serious. To me it looks like suicidal riding. Way too fast, way too much going on, so many things that could (and did) go wrong.

100% commitment by the rider no plan B even less a plan C. How could anyone approach a junction at that speed and expect everyone else to do the right thing?

Sad but some people just aren’t cut out to ride motorbikes

So you read that far and no further – well done 🙄

The issue with the “slow down” don’t exceed the limit suggestion is that is removes a critical decision making process from the driver, that of proceeding at an APPROPRIATE speed.

No, the speed limit is a maximum speed allowed, that is all it is.

anyone who does not have the sense to drive according to the traffic/weather/road conditions etc should not be allowed on the road.

Not trying to start a fight on a sad subject but… Really, how? He felt fast- don’t know what the limit is and it’s hard to judge in a video- but the car pulled right in front of him. Speed worsened it but the driver caused it.

Any sane motorcyclist will tell you that you don’t blast through a junction at 97 mph. You slow down because this sort of shit happens. If he’d been doing 50 through the junction, he’d have hit that car in the mid 40s instead of 90 odd.

The thinking time part is really important. I was also going to post the Kiwi “Making Mistakes” vid as it really sums it up. Both would have done something different if they had a second chance.
Modern technology has made vehicles that can easily leave speed limits behind and be handled safely at those speeds on a track. With other people around, other road users and the one piloting the vehicle it’s still not safe. Non of those drivers, riders and pedestrians have had the same upgrades as the cars and bikes. There are no ABS style upgrade for reactions, no traction control for the brain.

I hope that those who think that 100mph is a safe speed are removed from the road and have their licenses shredded. Regardless of how good you are or think you are you have little or no control over everybody else.

Pretty brutal watch. I worked out the difference in kinetic energy of the rider and bike with fuel assuming 250kg. 115,111 Joles at 60mph, 307,110 Joules at 98mph so 2.7x more energy to convert to heat by the brakes/to slam into the car.

i know the rider was going fast but i think he would have been visible and driver should be aware motorbikes can shift. I can completely understand the accident as it looked like the car was waiting at the junction until the bike was close. Sorry but i think that car is at fault and didn’t see the bike at all. Car didn’t hit the brake or put their foot down. Had drivers do this when I am on my cycle doing only 20mph. imho

Weeksy , do you really want “he died defending his right of way” to be the epitaph your kids see on your gravestone?

Really, what a ridiculous question. Of course I don’t. But one day it will say something on there.

“He died after a massive stroke”
“He died at BPW trying that double”
“he died as he wanted to be remembered”

Or some other similar rubbish.

Non bikers don’t often realise that 100mph on a bike is SO SO different to 100mph in a car. Getting to 100mph on a Superbike is a mere fraction from 60mph in 3rd gear, it’s the blink of an eye almost. Getting back down from 100mph is not far off that too. The handling of a bike at 100mph is also very different to a car (most cars anyway), the bike can turn, handle, steer and manouver, the cars are less able to do so.

The only thing that doesn’t change of course is the human factor, seeing, spotting and reacting.

I think it is important motorbike riders mostly leave their lights on too.

Non bikers don’t often realise that 100mph on a bike is SO SO different to 100mph in a car. Getting to 100mph on a Superbike is a mere fraction from 60mph in 3rd gear, it’s the blink of an eye almost. Getting back down from 100mph is not far off that too.

Yes, it’s all true bikes are way faster than any of the roads in the UK allow. It still doesn’t mean the rider is able to make decisions any quicker and approaching other road users at over 150% of the recognised speed limit doesn’t help them with decision making either. Want to ride at 100mph go to a track. Want to ride on the road ride within the limit.

Non bikers don’t often realise that 100mph on a bike is SO SO different to 100mph in a car. Getting to 100mph on a Superbike is a mere fraction from 60mph in 3rd gear, it’s the blink of an eye almost. Getting back down from 100mph is not far off that too. The handling of a bike at 100mph is also very different to a car (most cars anyway), the bike can turn, handle, steer and manouver, the cars are less able to do so.

The only thing that doesn’t change of course is the human factor, seeing, spotting and reacting.

You missed out ‘allowing for the unexpected bad decisions of other road users’ in the human factor bit.

Want to ride at 100mph go to a track. Want to ride on the road ride within the limit.

Yeah because it’s only bikers that speed. I must be imagining all the cars that do 45-50 through my village, or the cars that overtake me on the motorway when doing 70mph.

No, it’s inappropriate speed that kills.

That’s what the slogan really means – I think people understand that.

The issue with the “slow down” don’t exceed the limit suggestion is that is removes a critical decision making process from the driver

That is total and utter bullshit. The idea that anyone is going to abdicate all responsibility and only ever drive the speed limit is just ridiculous. Most drivers slow down when they see hazards, I see it all the time when driving. The issue is that they tend to speed up when they THINK there aren’t any hazards – but they often don’t see them (like in this vid). So you keep your speed in check just in case, because a reasonable speed everything is more avoidable and more survivable.

I can’t believe I’m having to explain this to someone with a driving license, and it depresses me.

I also can’t believe weeksy is defending his driving when he’s already admitted to having had lots of accidents.

I think everyone who’s mentioned speed as a factor has missed a point, and they’ve certainly missed the message – the driver didn’t pull out because he misjudged the rider’s speed, he pulled out because he didn’t see him (and reportedly didn’t see the car the rider was overtaking, either). So a legal 60 would have been just as fatal as 97 – and none of this “he could have taken evasive action at a lower speed”, even at 60 he wouldn’t have stopped or been able to miss the car if the timing had been as horribly wrong as it was in the video. Not condoning speeding (I’m dead against it) but you’re doing his brave, brave mum a terrible disservice to be judgemental about it.

I cried too, definitely the shout that does it – that horrible moment when he knew the crash was coming and there’s nothing he can do. 🙁

I also can’t believe weeksy is defending his driving when he’s already admitted to having had lots of accidents

I’ve had loads of accidents yes. I’ve had 2 on the road.

1 Driver pulled out of a 1 way street, that was the WRONG way… it was 1 way the other direction…
2. I wasn’t observant… my mistake.

Both of these were 10+ years ago.

The rest of the accidents have been on track trying to set my best lap times or in races. I class these are perfectly acceptable.

Yeah because it’s only bikers that speed. I must be imagining all the cars that do 45-50 through my village, or the cars that overtake me on the motorway when doing 70mph.

So that means it’s ok to do 100mph+ on a motorbike then? Good luck with that and I hope you don’t take anyone else out with you with while selfishly using the roads as your playground.

Tragic accident.

Both parties at fault, however the biker would still be alive if he wasn’t speeding.

Good luck with that and I hope you don’t take anyone else out with you with while selfishly using the roads as your playground.

Why am I going to take myself or anyone else out ? HAve a word with yourself, seriously.

I’m sitting here with blokes who selfishly throw themselves down mountains, through trees, over jumps etc and yet somehow I’m the one who’s selfishly having fun and putting myself at risk LOL. I’m the one who’s going to be selfish and leave my child all alone in the world, but the MTBers here go down black runs in the Alps not really knowing what the next stone or rock.

I won’t even get into the commuters who are risking their lives every minute of their rides.

Comical.

Both parties at fault, however the biker would still be alive if he wasn’t speeding.

Maybe.. or maybe he’d have hit someone 10 mins earlier who he missed as he was 15s further in his journey… or maybe he’d have got home earlier and slipped in the bath … who knows… maybe it was just his day/time and that’s the end of it. Speed was a factor in his death… however, not the only factor.