VW premium quality ‘myth’.

We’re on the look out for a new car so have been doing the rounds looking at what’s available. Having looked at the Seat Ateca + Leon estate and Octavia estate from the VAG group I thought it only sensible to have a look at the current Golf/Tiguan/etc so headed down to the VW garage.

Now in the past I have traveled in plenty of VW’s and always found them perfectly pleasant places to sit with some (late 90’s Passat from memory) being much lovelier  in side than the various other cars I was aware of at the time. I also was really taken by my pals decent spec A3 mk2 from the early 2000’s and remember how premium it felt compared to my Focus so when the motoring press (along with most other people it seems) kept mentioning how great the current VW’s are and how the Golf is just better than everything else in the class, with a more premium interior compared to the Seat/Skoda I was expecting good things.

What gives then? What am I missing? They look and feel almost exactly the same as the cheaper VAG cars, use the same controls, have the same wobbly dials, the same pretty standard feeling buttons and the same huge amount of scratchy plastic around the transmission area. Granted I didn’t turn the vehicles on but I can’t imagine the sat nav screen and illumination will make that much difference? The way the reviews bang on about premium feel and quality materials I was expecting a real step up in class (like you get in a BMW, Audi, etc) but they felt no plusher than the various Seat/Ford/Hyundia/Skoda/Kia/Peugeot I have had a poke around in on my search.

The two biggest disappointments  were the Tiguan and T-Roc as I would expect the Tiguan to be a little posher than the Leon and as for the T-Roc, that’s actually gone backwards with a similar but cheaper version of the Polo’s interior. I saw a review that criticised  the Ford Kuga for having the interior of a 15K hatchback yet made no mention of the fact the exact same thing happens across the VAG cars.

So please, tell me what I’m missing? Why do VW have such a premium rep and why would anyone buy a VW over the Seat/Skoda equivalent if you ignore badge snobbery or residuals as from what I can see you’re paying more for a worse looking but extremely similar product?

Is it not just the same with the reliability of VAG products?  They aren’t as reliable as, say, Ford but everyone thinks they are.  I hate their marketing arrogance.

Did it have heated wing mirrors?

Well all the VAG group cars use the same parts bins so the quality won’t change much. Funnily enough for my last 2 cars I’ve been looking at Octavias and ended up with Passats as they seem cheaper second hand.

I’ve had Audis and VWs for a few years now and drive a Skoda at work. Yes they share some parts but the ‘poorer’ quality of the Skoda really shows. The dashboard is softer plastic, the seats sub standard and there’s other little quirks. But if you can get one considerably cheaper then go for one.

The best thing about VWs was always the blue dials.

Then they got rid of them 🙁

Then they brought them back.

The Seat Leon is crap inside compared with a Polo or Golf, there’s no doubt about from where they save the money.  Mechanicals are similar, but last gen in the Seat.

I hate their marketing arrogance.

What other kind of marketing is there?

Well all the VAG group cars use the same parts bins so the quality won’t change much.

Not for interiors they don’t.

Possibly but it was more that I was expecting the specific VW brand to be superior in some way to the cheaper versions. There’s nothing wrong with them but VW is marketed as a ‘better’ version of the others. Audi is obviously also VAG and in my opinion their interiors feel much posher. I just expected VW to be somewhere in between.

The above response was to the first poster btw. You lot write too quickly!

Leon is crap compared to a Golf? They’re virtually the same, what am I missing?

Interesting the response about the Skoda seats and plastics as from first impression and therefore what draws you to or away from a car they seem very similar. I can appriciate that if you have owned the other VAG cars it’s something you would be better placed to pick up. If this is the case then VW really need to create a better first impression (like they used to do) as on the strength of my research I really couldn’t see the point of paying extra. I’d just get one of the properly nice brands.

Our experience at work benchmarking competitor vehicles has revealed much of the switchgear, controls etc are used across the entire VAG group so you get a perceived higher quality user interface in the cheaper models (SEAT, Skoda), the differences are then the quality of materials, levels of sound deadening, quality of inter layers, quality of plastics etc and the money being spent in areas that ‘most’ customers value (armrest cofort/enhanced surface finishes etc). Wrapped console sides are more premium than plastic but the VW plastics are a higher grade and a different grain so although still plastic, they are more premium than SEAT or Skoda.

Yeah it’s a bit of a myth these days, they’re not bad cars as all, but the lines aren’t so clear any more.

Truthfully, VW isn’t meant to be premium, that’s what Audi is for. It was meant to be:

Premium / Executive: Audi

Middle of the road. Quality, but not flash: VW

Sporty and exciting: Seat

Robust and good value: Skoda.

But, in reality what they’re for is this – customer is looking for a medium sized family car, they’ve got 1 option from Renault, 1 from BWM, 1 from Mercedes, 1 from Ford etc etc etc and then VW Group offer 4 options, they effectively sell the same product in 4 different styles to get more market share.

They didn’t invent this, that would be the Americans again, really there’s only 3 major manufactures in the US, Ford, GM and Chrysler, but they each have had loads of different sub-brands over the years, some they got from buying smaller manufactures over the years (like VW did) some by just inventing them, so you’ve got Dodge (Chrysler) Pontiac (GM) Lincoln (Ford) etc etc etc.

As for VW Group, they’ve largely given up their original niches, and actively compete with each other so the group sells more cars as a whole, so Skodas can be quite posh these days and Seats often the cheapest version, VW make cheap cars and very expensive ones and Audi makes small (but expensive) ones.

They’re trying to move away from the old “Oh it’s a VW with a Seat badge” type thing anyway, instead of a single chassis design for say the medium hatch segment (Golf, Leon, Octavia) they now have a single chassis design from everything from the UP to the Superb which can be tailored for whatever they need – FWD, 4WD, even mid-engined apparently, all from the same basic design.

My last 3 cars were a Saab 9-3 (55 plate), a Mondeo (57) and now a Passat (61 plate) – in order of poshness of interior, they probably go Ford – Saab- VW. The Mondeo was a nicer, smoother drive, better suspension, nicer interior, bigger, than the Passat (but it was a petrol and did 35mpg.)

I don’t care enough or spend enough time in my car to let it bother me, of course, but yeah, Ford if I was picking again.

BMWs are also very overrated interior-wise IMO, but I suspect they drive nicer. I hired a Skoda a while ago and that was like a cheap version of the Passat.

My Triumph 2000 in 1985 was nicer inside than all of them though.

Not for interiors they don’t

Yes they do, all the switches are the same base part with sometimes different switch caps, gives them enormous quantities of scale that allows them to do higher quality parts on the lower cost variants. There are a myriad of ‘hidden’ interior components, some are used from SEAT Mii all the way through the VAG range to Audi A8.

Admittedly a lot of the carryover items are within the body construction/chassis/powertrain and the mechanical fixings – nuts/bolts/clips

Never understood why people are that bothered about what the inside of their cars look like. As long as they are functional hopefully you’ll be looking out the windows than at the inside!

Mine’s only used to transport bikes, so gets covered in mud and oil and crisps and drinks cans and all that, so it just has to be robust. I’d give the Passat that accolade 🙂

Not entirely sure why Sbob keeps spamming car threads but there you go.

Thanks for the replies. I get the whole chassis thing and sharing platforms but I guess what I’m getting at is I expected VW to be somewhere between Audi and Skoda/Seat but leaning more towards Audi due to reputation and cost. It actually seems that they’re basically a ‘slightly’ better (but not on first impression) Skoda/Seat. They might use a higher quality scratchy plastic but it’s still scratchy plastic. Even my Ford does a better job of covering the cheaper materials up and I wouldn’t expect that to be the case.

Anyone wanting any proof just go and poke around at the materials used in the T-Roc!

YES! I didn’t realise the blue dials were back! Must be pretty recent – my 65 plate Gold didn’t have them. I’ve got a Mini now anyway…. much faster!

Never understood why people are that bothered about what the inside of their cars look like.

What’s wrong with wanting a nice place to be?  Do you have wallpaper in your house?

My house is an undecorated mess cos I don’t sit there looking at the walls do I. (Unfortunately, this is true)

The most important thing about a car’s interior level is obviously the sound system. I’ve just remembered, that’s why I like my Passat.

On the blue dials thing, that’s a good example of how they used to be better than their obvious rivals. The Golf I used to get a lift in had them and as daft as it sounds it made it feel much plusher than my Focus. The air vents were flasher too, just little things like that. The current cars seem create no such image and from my admittedly limited experience feel of no better quality in the main touch points.

The most important thing about a car’s interior level is obviously the sound system. I’ve just remembered, that’s why I like my Passat.

Seats, even though I can’t see the one I’m sat on as it’s behind and under me not out of the window but it’s nice to sat comfortably while staring out of the window.

Never understood why people are that bothered about what the inside of their cars look like

It’s never bothered me when I’m driving…….but I am registered blind.

As long as the engine is quiet enough to allow me hear the screams then i’m quite happy.

Never understood why people are that bothered about what the inside of their cars look like

Me neither! Usually ends up trashed from bikes/mud/kids anyway.

Maybe it’s because there’s so many traffic jams these days that people start looking around their car interiors and scratching the plastics so see what quality they are?

Yes they do, all the switches are the same base part with sometimes different switch caps

Different switch caps.. so different then.

They introduce different stuff at different times across the marques, and you get different equipment options too.  And the designs are different. Skodas from the period of my Passat are ugly as hell to my eyes, the VWs were much better.  Skodas are now better than they were but so are VWs.

I test drove a newer Seat when I got my VW, it had an older engine and was less refined all round.  However that was a long time ago, so no idea what it’s like now.  My Dad’s recent Golf was a bit smarter than my mate’s recent Superb, but there’s not a lot in it.

Not sure if Skoda have sorted it out recently but although my Octavia was built using the same VAG parts bin the quality of finish is way below the same age VW/Audi equivalent.

The paint quality in particular is shocking – so thin it has rubbed through to the undercoat on the door seals, rust coming through all over the place. The worst area is the sills where the stone guard doesn’t go as high as on the VW so as soon as the paint chips you get rust and paint peeling – what a mess. My 20 year old Fiat has way less rust and better paint than the Skoda…

As long as the dual controls work, I’m happy 😀

I disagree, I find Skoda’s and Seats definitely and noticeably lower quality than their equivalent VW model. I get to drive these cars reasonably regularly as hire cars and Skoda’s and Seats definitely have a lower quality more plasticky feel. I’m more surprised by the comments that the Focus is considered lower quality to a Golf. I actually think the latest Focus is pretty much, or as near as damn it, on par to the latest golf in terms of interior finish and material quality. It drives nicer for sure and has more comfy seats. I think you can spec up a Golf to a higher level than a Focus at the tope end of the model range, but at the mid range level I’d happily have a Focus over a Golf. The only thing that might sway me towards a Golf are the residuals.

Some years ago now, a friend was talking about an article he’d read in a motoring magazine where they’d taken apart a VW and the equivalent Skoda. Their conclusion that the Skoda was actually better built, possibly because VWs are built in Germany where labour was expensive and they had to rely more on automation, while the Skoda was built in the Czech Republic where labour was cheap so they had more people able to spend more time and attention on each car.

Like for like can often get skewed in these tests and even more so when you are looking at different versions of similar models across the different brands – particularly with your mates/colleagues vehicles.  Your German manufacturer’s interior is based on function first and foremost – though the new A-class has gone up a notch in the “snazzyness”.

I went from the previous iteration of Octavia VRS estate to the newer iteration (but not latest) top of the range Passat and it was a step-change in quality.  I also looked at as close as I could get equivalent in Superb and A6 and the Passat was very clearly in the middle.  But once you factor in outgoing models versus new models it all gets skewed.  The T-Roc may not deliver interior quality equal to the Polo or Ibiza say, but its a funky Polo and the cost uplift they probably think is justified in the design.

My thoughts, not necessarily what Mr VAG thinks.

I bought into the VAG quality myth and all the hype around Skoda Octavia VRS’s. What a complete let down it was.  Handling was below par but could be improved, most the bits could be taken from a Golf or Audi TT. Interior noise from poor seals and lack of sound proofing. Leaks, see previous comment on seals. Interior trim squeaks, Skoda uses lots of push fit metal clips into the body work cut outs, VW and Audi have a plastic collar on the body work cut outs to prevent metal to metal contact. Rear wiper fail, common problem but design not improved to prevent failure. Electrical gremlins from bulb failure when they were working to random reboots of the hifi. MPG no where near advertised and never got close even when driven extremely carefully.

I came to realise my mistake and regretted selling the Mondeo Mk3 which was built better, more economical and far comfier on a long drive even though it had a 100k more miles on it.  Skoda and Seat may share components with VW and Audi but you’re an idiot to think you’re getting the same quality.

As for the overall VW quality they are trading on their past greatness. I would now say they are no better than any other manufacturer now.

Reliability surveys are all very well but based on samples and owner declared experiences. The data from the French equivalent of the MOT is centralised and the percentage of cars that fail the test badly enough to have to be given a retest a pretty good indication of quality. The Sharan and T5/6 are on the “worst” list as are a variety of Seats. If your car isn’t there it’s not one of the worst.

http://www.fiches-auto.fr/articles-auto/fiabilite-des-marques-automobiles/s-383-controle-technique-les-pires-autos-contre-visite.php

And the best cars:

http://www.fiches-auto.fr/articles-auto/fiabilite-des-marques-automobiles/s-382-controle-technique-les-meilleures-autos.php

Op.

Your impression of VW is from around 20 years ago. At the time there was a very big difference between a VW Golf and other cars in it’s class. A Passat of a similar age was a vastly nicer car than a Mondeo.

BUT, everything has moved on. Car makers have had to up the game to supply a product that is as good as some cars from 20 years ago, others haven’t had much to improve on or are feeling the costs are prohibitive to make their offerings substantially better.

Car quality has moved on vastily since the late 90s to early 2000s. Back then some cars would struggle to make it to 10 years old without being a wreck. Within 5 years lots of makers had had a seismic shift in quality and the differences had narrowed considerably.

Never understood why people are that bothered about what the inside of their cars look like.

Everyone’s different, I think the exterior of my car is gopping, but the interior is lovely, comfy leather seats, brilliantly tactile steering wheel, it’s also got a great music system. I don’t care what it looks like outside really, other than it’s easy to find in the car park, it’s got the bike carriers on the roof.

Some people want a cool exterior, some to impress others, some to, I don’t know, look back longingly at when they’re heading back into their house, some people only care how fun it is to drive, some people only care how fast it’s could theoretically be, or rather only how theoretically faster it is than their neighbours / mates. Some people only care how little it will cost them to run, some how ‘green’ it is.

My Mum, she likes red ones, my daughter only likes my Wife’s old Astra, no one knows why, but she’s only 3, we changed the Astra when she was 18 months old, but she misses it terribly.

2018 Leon Cupra 300

2018 VW Golf R

Not much in it, but I think the Golf eeks it

The paint quality in particular is shocking

That seems to be pretty common with modern cars IME.  Pretty much everything I’ve driven in the last 15 years seemed to be able to be scratched by direct sunlight.

Not entirely sure why Sbob keeps spamming car threads

Apologies for “spamming” you with my single, light hearted post.

As it happens I love motors, especially big loud fast interesting ones so I’m not entirely sure why I’m here either.

In answer to your OP; you’re comparing dull cars with other dull cars, so yes they are similarly dull. People pay premiums to keep up with the Joneses because they are also dull, and probably shop in Gap.

No wallpaper in my house.

Perhaps it’s a matter of opinion and it’s OK to not agree?

Millions of folk think Cold Play and Ed Sheeran are top quality, or that Greggs is as good as any other bakery, or that Rapha clothing is worth the extra £.

VW vans are certainly much nicer to drive (Mercs aside)