Someone mentioned that religions ‘pray’ on the vulnerable. In my experience, they help the vulnerable. And of course they want them to become believers too, and why wouldn’t they if it means they might be saved?

Well, quite. That’s one way of looking at it. Alternatively they are just looking at increasing their club membership and power accordingly. Of course, I am being facetious! Generally I agree, most of the religious people I have had the pleasure of meeting have been nice and a fair representation of the positive aspects of humanity. I suppose it’s two sides of the same coin ultimately….

esselgruntfuttock said:
Ok, 2 quick questions, to everyone. What denomination do you consider yourself to be & do you ever go to your place of worship, if you have one? (apart from weddings & funerals)

Agnostic – I like the theory of infinite knowledge, together with Arthur C Clarke’s quote: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. IMHO it is the journey, not the destination in seeking knowledge/truth that is important.

No place of worship, too much choice of who to worship and what the purpose would be anyway!

Neighbour to one side speaks very broken English. Neighbour the other side also doesn’t have very good English and his wife is deaf. We say hello and such, but “talking to them on a daily basis” is challenging.

With all due respect, the barriers that you cite are still going to be there in the mosque, aren’t they? 😛
Your neighbours know that you’re friendly and approachable which is probably enough in that relationship. Mixing in local shops, just being normal with them doesn’t, or shouldn’t, need an open mosque day. But it is clear that some are more than happy to live in their own ignorance. Which makes me sad.

not likely, I have no interest in going to places that encourage sexist, homophobic, intolerant behaviour and denies any sort of critical thinking.

With all due respect, the barriers that you cite are still going to be there in the mosque, aren’t they?

For the couple of people I’ve cited, yes. For others, perhaps not.

I dunno. I just thought that showing my face might be a nice thing to do.

And in my experience, the least tolerant people I have come across are atheists, who constantly blame religion for all that is wrong with the world. It’s not religion, it’s people that are the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I don’t for a second blame religion for “all that is wrong with the world” and I doubt that any but the most militant of atheists do either. Rather, you’re right that it is people that are the problem, but religion can give problem people a convenient excuse to justify their actions. Eg, homophobic? That’s suddenly justifiable, because god hates fags! (So should probably cut down a little.)

@GrahamS, I’m not saying that all intolerance comes from atheists, or that all atheists are intolerant. Was just saying what I see from day to day, whether it be from close friends or some members of this forum. Maybe I didn’t explain myself very well. It’s great that we can have such discussions, it just bothers me when it gets abusive or disrespectful.

What makes you think that not engaging with them is the best way forward poah?

If you believe what you say then they must see you as a disbeliever who encourages amoral values of homosexuality and disrespectful behaviour in women – and yet they are still prepared to welcome you in for a chat and a cup of tea.

but religion can give problem people a convenient excuse to justify their actions.

People are pretty good at making up all kinds of reasons to justify their actions, religion is a pretty good one, but political ideology is another one, pseudo-evolutionary theories seem to get rolled out often too I’m sure I heard dodgy genetics being used at one point too.

All rubbish mind.

I think there’s a mosque down in Portsmouth, but I wouldn’t drive into Portsmouth to visit a mountain bike shop, let alone a mosque. So I’ll be going to the rugby ground to do my worshipping as per usual Sundays ta.

Religion is a manifestation of human need and desire.

Therefore, it must represent all aspects of human nature, the good and the bad.
It would be impossible for it to be otherwise.

It’s just that having been brought up in a predominantly Christian country, made to go to church, Sunday school etc when I was younger, and made to do (very Christian focussed) RE at school, as well as prayers etc – I think I have a reasonable layman’s grasp of it.

Do you know the difference between a Priest and a Vicar though?

not likely, I have no interest in going to places that encourage sexist, homophobic, intolerant behaviour and denies any sort of critical thinking.

Do you know that they’re ‘all’ of that mindset or is that just your perception based on what you read / see in the media? How will you know if you don’t go and ask them or talk to to them in a constructive way?

I played a lot of cricket over the years, which inevitably (because of a cultural thing) means i have had a lot of friends and teammates ‘of Pakistani origin’ in particular, and over many a boundary walk or tea interval i’ve yet to meet one who fits the stereotype of the type you seem to be imagining. Only extremely friendly, intelligent, tolerant* and caring people. Some of who hit a cricket ball very hard indeed.

* until you drop a catch off one of them. I didn’t understand exactly what he said but I suspect it wasn’t big on tolerance at that point.

Unsurprisingly, I’d rather stick needles in my eyes.

I can’t think of a single reason to be “friends” with a totally random bunch of strangers because they all happen to believe in such a ridiculous ragbag of nonsense.

As far as the “Muslim Council of Britain” is concerned, I’d be more interested in meeting these brave people…

Home

Do you know the difference between a Priest and a Vicar though?

I tend to just call them all “Padre” in a Spaghetti Western style, even the women*. 😆
If I’m going to be accidentally insulting I might as well do it equally.

* (and yes our local Methodist Padre is a vicarette or whatever the appropriate term is? “Minister” maybe?)

Our local Muslim centre has grills over the windows. I suspect it may be related to a gentleman (at least I assume it’s a gentleman) nearby having an EDL flag covering his entire front window.

Seems to me that you’re the kind of person who most needs to go to these things! Priceless.

I spent 20 years living in largely asian areas. I lived next to a mosque in Beeston Leeds for three years and still have family who live in Dewsbury, Halifax, Huddersfield.

There are areas they, particularily females would never go due to risk of abuse from asian men who adhere to Islamic rather than western values.

I know all I need to know about Islam and abhore it as a malicious ideology.

No hate and I love all humans but as above a bad idea is a bad idea religion or not.

it just a load of poppy cock and it doesn’t appear accepting of folk who think differently so we shouldn’t be encouraging it by rocking up to open days.

Yes obviously your logic is perfect.

What better way is there for Muslims to show that they are not “accepting of folk who think differently” than by having an open day just for them.

Welcoming them into your place of worship and engaging with them as friends.

Whatever you do, you shouldn’t be encouraging THAT sort of behaviour 🙄

You visit the mosque if it makes you feel all warm and superior. If you want to decrease your ignorance and “learn” about islam however, why don’t you read the koran… Radical I know!
That way you can feel all warm and fuzzy without preaching that others should do the same or are ignorant for not wanting to visit the mosque…

I’m going to go along, and take my kids.

I’d welcome my son to punch me in the face if I even suggested such a thing. He gets more than enough RE at school.

If you want to decrease your ignorance and “learn” about islam however, why don’t you read the koran… Radical I know!

Next after Woppit with the pins.

What’s the best way to learn a bit more about a culture, sitting reading a dry tome the size of the London telephone directory, or talking to people and having a look around?

Do you know that they’re ‘all’ of that mindset or is that just your perception based on what you read / see in the media? How will you know if you don’t go and ask them or talk to to them in a constructive way?

yes, the religion is and that’s what matters given that’s what is preached. I’ve got no interest in talking to someone just because they are a Muslim. If you want to believe that an illiterate war monger called Muhammad was spoken to by the archangel Gabriel who split the moon in two and flew to heaven on a winged horse that’s your choice just don’t force this nonsense on other people that don’t.

Would love to go, unfortunately there isn’t an open day near Bristol. Which is odd considering that there are plenty of mosques within a 15 minute walk of my house.

Great to see so much hate and intolerance being spouted by those complaining about hate and intolerance. 🙄

..Muhammad was spoken to by the archangel Gabriel who split the moon in two and flew to heaven on a winged horse..

I think pretty much all religions have some “fantastical” imagery in them don’t they?

Read the Christian description of a Seraphim, Cherubim or Throne.
Or check out the elephant deities and inter-dimensional space travelling snakes of other religions.

I would, but I’ve got some paint that urgently needs watching whilst it dries out…

Great to see so much hate and intolerance being spouted by those complaining about hate and intolerance

fail to see how it is hate or intolerance to know that what is written is not factual in anyway. Like I said, I don’t care if you want to believe that nonsense just don’t try and force it on others.

So educate us, instead of being condescending.

Sorry I missed this, no intent to be condescending hence my use of ill-educated rather the uneducated. The former, in my experience, tends to used when it is not the fault of the pupil.

Could a better response have been “Actually, all christian religions have priests but I know what you mean, it’s just that they’re generally better known in the CofE as vicars, rectors, canons, etc.” ?

No because it is not my experience, Church of England clergy are generally referred to priests in the media when the media deigns to cover the Church. This is, of course, when there is some controversy about women or gay priests, as nothing else provides sufficient excitement. For instance, here is a recent BBC article dealing with the “furore” over gay priests – it uses the terms “priest” or collectively “clergy”.

Is this important? Alone no, but it is illustrative of a complete failure of religious education in this country. I am constantly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge of the Church of England, the established Church, expressed on threads on here. Sadly, it is unlikely that this will change much in the future as too many schools, based, inter alia, on the my parish priest’s experience, are not open to broadening their pupils knowledge.

My point is further illustrated by this

Christmas services which in our village are carefully shared out between the local Methodist and CofE churches in a nice bit of harmonious inter-church cooperation. (I bow my head in respect, but I don’t pray or sing as I’d consider that hypocritical)

Such co-operation isn’t noteworthy – it is pretty much standard operating procedure.

So you should educate us, you may say, well frankly I have neither the time nor the vocation, but if you interested in improving your knowledge, rather than spouting ill-informed nonsense on an MTB forum, read some theology. “The Gospels according to Peanuts” is a good introduction to the broad Christian faith (and that is not condescending it is a highly regarded book.)

But back to the topic of thread, I would encourage you to visit your local Mosque but I would also encourage to visit your local CofE church as well as too many have misplaced confidence in their understanding.

think I’ll try pop along to the one in york, though it’s a fair distance.

I’m a bit puzzled though by the “its a misogynistic/homophobic etc. faith so i wouldn’t give it the time of day” type comments.

I maybe completely wrong (and i assume those mosques opening their doors are probably the more liberal end of the spectrum any way) but I’m fairly sure people (groups of, rather than individuals) with distasteful views can be found in all faiths and none just as easily and that a good number in any faith won’t agree with the millennia old points of view espoused by their [and every other one I’ve taken the time to “read”] holly book, just as much as some will take the hardest possible interpretation.

[Quote] Mr Woppit – Member
I can’t think of a single reason to be “friends” with a totally random bunch of strangers because they all happen to believe in such a ridiculous ragbag of nonsense.[/quote]

And yet here you are on an internet forum full of strangers with random ragbag points of view and beliefs engaging in friendly conversation monologing.

not likely, I have no interest in going to places that encourage sexist, homophobic, intolerant behaviour and denies any sort of critical thinking.

Give me a break.

I am constantly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge of the Church of England, the established Church, expressed on threads on here. Sadly, it is unlikely that this will change much in the future as too many schools, based, inter alia, on the my parish priest’s experience, are not open to broadening their pupils knowledge.

I’m of the opinion that RE should be taught in schools at an academic, objective level. Ie, “the Christian faith believe X, whereas the Islamic faith believes Y…”

Where it all falls down for me is when it’s taught as truth, or more specifically that one particular religion is The Truth. Indoctrination has no place in a modern school in the UK, that’s the job of the family’s church (be that an actual church, a mosque or something else). Times may have changed but when I was at school I don’t remember any other faiths ever being mentioned even.

Such co-operation isn’t noteworthy – it is pretty much standard operating procedure.

Coming from Glasgow, where historically co-operation between branches of Christian faith have been, shall we say, “tense”, it was noteworthy to me and good to see.

Give me a break

Critical thinking is the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement.

The bible tells us that a 500 year old man and his 100 year old sons with no experience of boat building, constructed an ark that houses all the animals of the world and their food. This man eventually lived to 900 years old. Now this we know is complete and total bollox but the Christian religion tells us this is true and as a Christian this is one of the many stories in the bible that you are supposed to believe in. Lets not even get onto evolution, the age or the earth and universe, so tell me why I should give you a break?

And yet here you are on an internet forum full of strangers with random ragbag points of view and beliefs engaging in friendly conversation monologing.

Not really. This is not an organised ragbag of nonsensical precepts watched over by a mythical super being which everybody present believes in.

It’s just a bunch of opinions in a free debate.

Odd that you think the two clearly different things are the same.

Monologue. FTFY

I maybe completely wrong (and i assume those mosques opening their doors are probably the more liberal end of the spectrum any way)

It’s slightly disturbing that an effort to integrate and be welcoming is in itself “liberal,” when there are more mosques in Blackburn alone than there are mosques taking part in the scheme nationally all together.

I’m fairly sure people (groups of, rather than individuals) with distasteful views can be found in all faiths and none just as easily

I don’t doubt it. But a religion can add legitimacy to those views, as I said on the previous page, can give people the courage that they’re “right,” and facilitate those views to proliferate.

The reverse is true also of course, positive views can be encouraged in the same way. It’s a shame we can’t have one without the other really.

Religion is a manifestation of human need and desire.

Therefore, it must represent all aspects of human nature, the good and the bad.
It would be impossible for it to be otherwise.

I dunno about that, y’know. Religion isn’t a manifest of anything, it’s a man-made construct. I reckon I could draw up a framework for a new religion in my lunch hour that had plenty of “be nice to each other” without all that messy raping and killing business.

poah/Woppit: so what?

I don’t believe any of that stuff either. It doesn’t prevent me from having a cuppa and a civilised chat with people who do. Or even from trying to understand some of their beliefs, motivations or philosophy.

As long as they are prepared to extend me the same courtesy then what’s the issue?

I literally cant look away from this thread.

The bible tells us that a 500 year old man and his 100 year old sons…

But it’s allegorical these days, thanks to a nifty bit of revisionism. We’re not supposed to believe it’s actually true (apart from the bits we can’t actually disprove yet, they totally happened, obvs).

I don’t believe any of that stuff either. It doesn’t prevent me from having a cuppa and a civilised chat with people who do. Or even from trying to understand some of their beliefs, motivations or philosophy.

As long as they are prepared to extend me the same courtesy then what’s the issue?

Pretty much where I’m coming from, TBH.

What’s the best way to learn a bit more about a culture, sitting reading a dry tome the size of the London telephone directory, or talking to people and having a look around?

POSTED 53 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

From source, always from source. Otherwise we’d all believe what the mainstream media tells us and we know that would be bad.

As long as they are prepared to extend me the same courtesy then what’s the issue?

I’ve better things to do than deliberately waste my Sunday by getting involved with listening to a lot of risible bullsh1t.

No offense.

And yet, here we are.

The bible tells us that a 500 year old man and his 100 year old sons with no experience of boat building, constructed an ark that houses all the animals of the world and their food. This man eventually lived to 900 years old. Now this we know is complete and total bollox but the Christian religion tells us this is true and as a Christian this is one of the many stories in the bible that you are supposed to believe in.

Always pleasing to see one’s point illustrated so well – I am sorry that the academic discipline of theology has passed you by – after all, it was only one of the principal subjects that our ancient universities were founded to study.