Vintage Fur

Eldest daughter has been given a fur coat that was her Great-Grandmothers – the coat is made of Mink or Rabbit or something. The jacket is somewhere around 60yrs old (at least).

What is the reaction of the hive-mind about folk wearing these types of thing now ?

Despite being bleeding ancient, I expect it will upset someone somewhere…

Reports from the lounge are that the jacket is super toasty…. we just need to get her outside in it now…

Wear it until it’s worn out – killing animals to make new fur garments is bad. Throwing away old fur garmets because they’re fur is a disservice to the animals that died to make them.

Equal to its moral servitude, keep it for your cat to sleep on.

I agree with sobriety but with a caveat. There’s a possibility of some people giving her serious grief for wearing it, if they don’t realise or care that it’s vintage. Sadly, she needs to at least be prepared for that possibility if she chooses to wear it.  I see no issues with it being vintage, but it’s a very emotive issue for some.

If you believe it’s wrong now, it was also wrong back then. The “vintage” argument is bollocks. I’d defo give it to the cat actually, ours’d love it 🙂

Unless it’s cat fur obvs

The cat gets spoilt enough

Mrs Zip’s auntie had a fur coat that Mrs Zip and her sister would snuggle up with when auntie took them to the theatre.

They inherited the coat but neither of them would wear it. To relive  the memories of being snuggled up in the back of a cab they had the coat turned into cushions.

I’d not be wearing it or allowing my children to. Wrong then and wrong now. I get that it’s vintage, but the message from someone wearing a fur coat could be that the wearer agrees with what it represents.

Go for it. It is only another persons opinion that it may be wrong. They have no right to impose it on others. Sadly the idiots might try.

It’s a difficult one.

The yogurt-knitter part of my brain thinks it’s flat-out wrong and should be disposed of. The aspie bit of my brain is screaming that the animals are already dead so tossing it changes nothing and in fact makes it worse to just go to waste for no reason. The devil’s advocate component is going “you wouldn’t wear a rabbit-skin coat, yet rabbit pie and chips is fine?”

There’s a possibility of some people giving her serious grief for wearing it, if they don’t realise or care that it’s vintage. Sadly, she needs to at least be prepared for that possibility if she chooses to wear it.

“It’s not real fur. Good likeness, isn’t it?”

Actually,

Is it even legal? (I don’t know)

I believe that the correct response to the question is…..“only beautiful animals and ugly people wear fur”

Having watched the second best Deadpool movie I’m not convinced that statement is 100% accurate.

I’d turn it into a bed throw or just a throw for the sofa. It gets used but in the privacy of your own home.

Throwing away old fur garmets because they’re fur is a disservice to the animals that died to make them.

Is where I was.

Wrong then and wrong now.

Is where I am now. I’m at the point with my relationship with animal derived products that it would be a very uncomfortable concept and not something I’d want on me regardless of the reaction of other people or how long ago the skinning happened.

But….and it’s a huge but – that’s me as a vegan talking.  If she eats meat, or even if she’s a dairy consuming veggie – why not? I see using animal fur/skin just the same as consuming animals as food. I don’t get all specism about it and think about furries any different to the animals you are happy to have on a plate. So if that’s the relationship you want to have with animals – wear that fur with pride. You don’t only eat  sausages in the privacy of your own home so why not show it loud and proud on your back too?

…. however, if wearing fur makes you feel uncomfortable, maybe it’s time to look at your plate of food too and start thinking why you don’t feel the same…

The devil’s advocate component is going “you wouldn’t wear a rabbit-skin coat, yet rabbit pie and chips is fine?”

Like leather shoes.

In the past I’ve seen fur coats getting paint chucked over them by animal rights people.

Like leather shoes.

It’s kinda the opposite.

I’ve said before in response to lazy “preachy vegan” stereotype accusations, I’ve met precisely two preachy vegans my whole life. The second one is who we’re discussing here.

I was minding my own business in a biker bar one night when this chopsy “meat is murder” type rocked up for an argument. Because presumably if you’re a vegan spoiling for a rammy, a roomful of leather is a reasonable starting point. She went round the room gobbing off and was studiously told to jog on, then eventually she got around to me. This may come as a shock to regular readers perhaps, but I’m not generally one to shy away from a debate.

She launched into a well-practiced PETA Bingo monologue, I went “well, actually, whilst you’re correct that we do have molars, the bulk of our teeth are incisors and canines designed for cutting flesh and the locomotion of our jaws make the molars better suited for crushing than grinding” and things of this nature. I was well-armed, I’d been hearing these nonsense arguments from carnivores about forward-facing predatory vision and depth perception for years so I just bounced them all straight back out again. I probably wouldn’t have engaged in the first place, truth be told, but I bristled at the facts that a) she’d made all manner of assumptions about me before opening her mouth and b) she was clearly spoiling for an argument so I figured she’d come to the right place.

We went back and forth for a while, she was getting increasingly agitated. Eventually she barked out something like “well… you just shouldn’t eat meat!” I replied, I don’t, I’ve been vegetarian since I was a teenager. She looked at me open-mouthed and there was one of those beats that kinda hangs in the air for a couple of seconds. Then she went “but… but… you’re wearing leather shoes!” and pointed at my feet. I said “I don’t eat my shoes.” At which point she harrumphed and stormed off to find a softer victim.

I would not have a problem wearing an old leather coat just as I don’t have a problem with the numerous pieces of old taxidermy around my house but that doesn’t mean I think killing animals for leather, food or show purposes is a good or necessary thing to do.

At 20 years old I would have been much more militant about it but these days not so much.

I thought this thread was gonna be about 70’s era porn…is disappointed

Another vegan here live and let live let her make her own choices about what she wears.

There is a difference between leather and rabbit fur the insides of which will be eaten. And a mink coat the insides of which were grown specifically to provide the fur for the coat. Leather etc is a sendible material for boots ermine is an unnecessary material for a coat.

In kinda agree with just wear it the damage is done. However, there is an element of “wearing it (and or fake fur) continues the promotion of wearing furs”. I am not sure what my point or my opinion is but its a topic i manage to be simultaneously a bit of both sides.

Both are products made from dead animals. So no I don’t think there is a difference.

While it makes sense in my head to ‘re-use’ such a thing, I’m not sure all the people she would meet while out would get the nuance or pragmatism of wearing an old item.

I personally would go for the sofa cushions option and not start an argument or abuse with a stranger on the street.

I see using animal fur/skin just the same as consuming animals as food

That depends on whether the animal has been killed and skinned just for its fur, or the fur is a side issue of a butchering for food.   It’s generally accepted that humans eat meat and have always done.  In the modern era where we are educated to know of the impact our population numbers and industry has on the planetary and animal ecosystems via doing so, we now have a choice of alternatives.

I am of course referring to the modern era, and it pays to remember there are times when Pategonia Gilets didn’t exist and Cavemen saw the use of extraneous furs and skinned as clothing.  You can then extend that to “Well it’s filled with Goose feathers” well sure, if the goose had died – perhaps of old age – anyway what’s the issue with using it’s now redundant feathers?   But yes, I’d be dead against rearing, killing and plucking geese for the sole purpose of filling a Gilet for a wannabe middle class North London Mountain Biker.

Apologies I miss read the title and thought this was something else

That depends on whether the animal has been killed and skinned just for its fur, or the fur is a side issue of a butchering for food.

There is a difference between leather and rabbit fur the insides of which will be eaten. And a mink coat the insides of which were grown specifically to provide the fur for the coat.

I don’t see it like that any more. Regardless of how you use the animal for our personal gain, it feels the same to me. And personally, not something I want to be associated with no matter how old it was. But that’s me. If I ate meat/dairy I’d say you’ve crossed the rubicon and it’s all in play.

I’d go further – has the pig slaughtered for the very short term calorific gain (and the ‘but bacon’ satiation loved by so many) been as efficiently used as the mink who’s skin and fur is still being worn 3 generations later? Or the goose down that is stuffing a pillow, sleeping bag or North face jacket for years compared to the single meal the meat from a chicken provides – minutes on the lips or years on (covering) the hips…..

For those that say the coat was made a long time ago when thinking was different and we should not ‘waste’ it as it would dishonour the animal…..I’m guessing you feel about ivory too?

I don’t have much to add other than my daughter is a vegetarian, has been for over a decade, she is fascinated by taxidermy and collects small pieces (of taxidermy) and animal bones.

Life is full of nuance and is surely richer for it.

.I’m guessing you feel about ivory too?

Ivory brings up all sorts of legal issues now (as of new legislation in 2022)- even with ‘historic’ ivory  an ‘item’ needs to be less than either 10% or 20% ivory depending on what kind of object it is. So a half ton piano with ivory keys would be exempt from legislation but an ivory pendant wouldn’t be.

That all pertains to sale rather than use or ownership though, but nether the less a regulated material rather than a taste issue.

I think for the OP the issue really is your daughter needs to accept that the coat would be provocative to wear. You can rationalise that it’s old, and that it’s a different act to wear it than buying a brand new fur coat but the beholder doesn’t necessarily know that. So in wearing it you need to be prepared how doing so will be perceived and be happy and ready to clarify/explain/defend what you’re doing. Which some people are happy to do. But if you do something provocative you have to be ready for absolutely everything that might provoke.

she is fascinated by taxidermy and collects small pieces (of taxidermy) and animal bones.

I worked in the museum sector for a while and many are having to deal with changing tastes in relation to taxidermy. Many will have quite extensive natural history collections but depending on the era those collections were created they might be scientific specimens, they might be hunting trophies or they might just be really odd. So you could have a fox for instance in your collection – fine if its depicted naturalistically, less fine if its heads mounted on a plaque, quite problematic if its standing on its hind legs dressed as the Laughing Cavalier

In the past I’ve seen fur coats getting paint chucked over them by animal rights people.

I can’t remember the last time I saw a fur coat being worn, do animal rights people still carry around a tin of paint, just in case?

Both are products made from dead animals. So no I don’t think there is a difference.

I was taught in high school that the Native Americans didn’t like slaughtering livestock but had little choice for their survival, so when they killed a buffalo they used every last scrap of it from meat to hide to bones to sinews to teeth. How rooted that is in fact I don’t know, but it seemed to me even at a young age to be a noble approach. Compare and contrast, someone mentioned ivory just now. AFAIK the problem with ivory isn’t the ivory itself so much as poachers were slaughtering elephants, taking tusks and then throwing the rest of the elephant away. Ie, it’s terrifically wasteful.

I find it kind of strange that we’re villifying the breeding of animals just to slaughter for their pelts which is largely unnecessary in the Western world, yet the breeding of animals just to slaughter for their flesh which is also largely unnecessary in the Western world is almost considered weird not to do so.

We can argue as above “It’s generally accepted that humans eat meat and have always done” but we can equally argue “It’s generally accepted that humans wear furs and have always done.” No?

Mankind’s moral code is a slippery beast. Drivers pick an arbitrary speed to drive at which is what they feel is correct, anyone driving at two inches per fortnight slower is a doddering fool who is going to cause an accident, anyone overtaking is a crazed maniac who should be locked up. We all make our decisions and whatever those decisions are, everyone else is wrong.

Mankind’s moral code is a slippery beast.

In fact I just remembered – mentioning the museums I was working with having to decide what to do with tasteless, anthoporphised taxidermy in their collections 20 years ago. On may way home from a job up north a few weeks ago I was treated to tasteless anthromophised taxidermy as shop fittings

So maybe its back in fashion again

Bad taxidermy is a mahoosive internet rabbit hole to explore.

Main problem with wearing it out, is people might see it and go, ooh I want one. Same as putting it on Insta etc… could start a trend. Bit like that Marcus Rashford posting a pic with his dog with it’s mutilated ears and the sheeple going I want that done to my dog! Where will it lead?

further – has the pig slaughtered for the very short term calorific gain (and the ‘but bacon’ satiation loved by so many) been as efficiently used as the mink who’s skin and fur is still being worn 3 generations later? Or the goose down that is stuffing a pillow, sleeping bag or North face jacket for years compared to the single meal the meat from a chicken provides – minutes on the lips or years on (covering) the hips…..

I think this is a very good point

they used every last scrap of it from meat to hide to bones to sinews to teeth

Pah, Ronald McDonald has been doing that for years, nothing new to see here….

I had a fur coat for years, still wear a fur scarf. I just tell everyone it’s fake nobody can tell the difference any more.  I have never had any hassle.

Similarly I have a fur hat made out of Chinese mountain rat (from when I was living up a mountain in China) and anyone who asks me if it is real fur DGAS once I tell them what animal it’s from.

And as an aside, I also ate quite a lot of rat too.

Have a bit of a Google for fur production/farming practices.

Very easy decision imho.