Aha it seems they payed the legend that is FTW but not anyone else suppliers or customers

I’m sure I read somewhere that the photo was taken from Frank’s social media, and no evidence of the bike/frame having been shipped…

Willing to be corrected, obviously.

Willing to be corrected, obviously

Pinkbike says.

Whatever happened to the keith flint memorial riding jerseys

probs having trouble onshoring them…

I can’t believe this is still going on. How are they not in serious legal trouble.

It’s difficult not to feel a smidge of admiration for the sheer bloody minded refusal to call it a day.

I can’t believe this is still going on. How are they not in serious legal trouble.

Hysteria, hyperbole and conjecture aside, how many people are actually owed money?

Somewhere way back in the thread someone asked that question and the answer was something incredulous for the amount of noise being made like “at least 6 on pinkbike”. Since then there seems to have been a trickle of refunds, either via paypal, CC’s and maybe directly. Now assuming the average Sick bikcycle buyer is probably a pinkbike user, that’s not many bikes sold is it?

So an alternative version of history (well, conjecture, but about as grounded in reality as any other explanation and kinda tallying with the timeline of their statements) might just be that they believed their own hype, and the reason Marino and others didn’t get paid was simply because very few people actually bought the bikes. And if they didn’t sell enough of the batch, they couldn’t pay suppliers, which caused the delays whilst trying to raise the funds to “onshore” the frames. Then as refunds spiral with bad news, and suppliers cancel contracts and start flogging the frames directly things actually get kinda better as you can then just offer refunds as you no longer need that money.

Sure, if you’ve paid £700 (or whatever) for a frame you don’t really care how many other £700’s there were, you just want those £700’s converting into frames so you get yours, ineptitude or fraud is irrelevant as you end up in the same outcome. But I still think it’s more likely ineptitude and ego than industrial scale fraud like some are hyping it up to be.

Somewhere way back in the thread someone asked that question and the answer was something incredulous for the amount of noise being made like “at least 6 on pinkbike”. Since then there seems to have been a trickle of refunds, either via paypal, CC’s and maybe directly. Now assuming the average Sick bikcycle buyer is probably a pinkbike user, that’s not many bikes sold is it?

There are more than 50, but less than 60 tickets issued from the new ticketing system/inbox for people who are owed money or a frame, based on what one of the owed customers has said (didn’t want to give away which number he was). So it’s not speedX levels of money, but it’s more than pocket change.

It can’t be just a few people though, otherwise why would Sick keep making reference to them, putting off potential new customers (as much as they supposedly hate ‘potential’ customers)

There are more than 50, but less than 60 tickets issued from the new ticketing system/inbox for people who are owed money or a frame, based on what one of the owed customers has said (didn’t want to give away which number he was).

Given that most planet-x threads start with a variation on “I’ve e-mailed them three times already this morning and they’ve not got back to me” are those frame numbers or ticket numbers?

Even as many as 50 undelivered frames isn’t going to let one person quit the dayjob, it’s not even going to buy everyone at Sick a small hatchback even if it was a con and they pocketed it all.

Ticket numbers, assigned to those that wanted a frame or refund. I assume people who mailed about other stuff or to have a go weren’t given tickets. 50 isn’t a lot, but given their total orders is somewhere between 100 (what James said) and 300 (what they claimed in the indiegogo campaign) it’s Either a terrible hit rate, or an appalling one. And that just frames delivered, not including ones that either broke, or were in some way wrong.

And the undelivered indiegogo frames (gnarpoon and sleipnir) equate to about £30k alone.

Grow up Batfink, you’ve got a very black and white, idealised sense of this and as has been said above, most of the world doesn’t work like that.

YES he probably should have been on top of it from day one but I very much doubt it was possible to view any accounts let alone have any influence over proceedings. It will most likely have been a directorship in name only in a “in this time next year we’ll be millionaires and you’ll get paid” scenario.

Even someone that’s paid a deposit on one of the frames isn’t anywhere near as out of pocket as Lee. At £10/hr he’s owed £15k and a decent CAD designer can earn a lot more than that for their time. Have a little compassion.

Grow up? Lol.
Do you consider expecting people to behave like an adult, childish?!
Becoming a director of a company is not something to be taken lightly – especially when they are taking thousands of pounds from customers and signing manufacturing contracts for tens of thousands. And ESPECIALLY, when your business partners start ripping people off.

There is no such thing as a director “in name only”

Thats not “idealised” or “black and white” that’s a) the law, and b) common sense (for an adult). Not understanding that is just naive…. but yeah: “grow up”!

but I very much doubt it was possible to view any accounts let alone have any influence over proceedings

Sick’s situation has been all over the internet and social media for months – you cannot seriously claim that he didn’t know things were going south fast, or have the nouse to start asking questions of his fellow directors. Its not like the other two were covering-their-tracks…. they were shouting their incompetence from the rooftops. I suppose he did eventually step down, which is something in his favour.

Have a little compassion.

I do have a little compassion – sounds like he made some bad choices (becoming a Director of a dumpster-fire of a company, then not taking that position seriously, and choosing to work nearly a years worth of hours for free – presumably of the promise of some larger payout down the track). But ultimately he owns those mistakes – like an adult.

There is no such thing as a director “in name only”

There is, but it doesn’t apply in this case.

Hysteria, hyperbole and conjecture aside, how many people are actually owed money?

Didn’t quote your entire post, but you make some damned good points. The hype they created seems to have bitten them in the arse.

I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day. He has a sick bikes T shirt on…

If I tilt my phone he might even see this.. (the thrill of it! 😬🤭)

I’m wearing a Heaven of the South MTB T-shirt, wonder if a chat will strike up?

* the one with tatts and a beard 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh, to have a gnarpoon tshirt on in that situation…

Hysteria, hyperbole and conjecture aside, how many people are actually owed money?

Good shout, it’s not cool to owe anyone money. But loads of people on here just seem to be bystanders who decided to put the boot in about something that hasn’t actually affected them.
Let’s have a show of hands, who on here is owed money by Sick ?

they don’t owe me money but I didn’t get a christmas present because Jordan lied to my face about when the Ti bars would be available for sale.

My view is the money’s pretty much gone and they’re struggling to find a way out that won’t leave them open to charges.

pictonroad, where are you? Can we get a Gnarpoon t-shirt there urgently? If you local to me I reckon I could get away form work for and express/delivery/loan of mine.

I’m wearing a Heaven of the South MTB T-shirt, wonder if a chat will strike up?

Ask him about vegan cheese.

Pretend you ordered a bike and go mad. Video it for the lolz

But loads of people on here just seem to be bystanders who decided to put the boot in about something that hasn’t actually affected them.

So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn’t affect me?

So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn’t affect me?

Yep. If you try and do something about it, you’re the arsehole.

But loads of people on here just seem to be bystanders who decided to put the boot in about something that hasn’t actually affected them.

So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn’t affect me?

Egggzakerly.

Customers are being taken for mugs. The evidence suggests just that.

I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day

He’s just a bloke and usually very chatty.  I’d say hi, be sociable.  Maybe not launch into a great rant at the kids sports day and don’t pay up front for any vegan cheese ahead of delivery.

My view is the money’s pretty much gone and they’re struggling to find a way out that won’t leave them open to charges.

That was kinda my point, there isn’t actually evidence to suggest that all the money is gone, just that there doesnt seem to be enough of it.

They said they made a loss on some frames (ineptitude).

They appear to be unable to pay suppliers, but say that those orders will be refunded or swapped for frames from elsewhere. I’m guessing Taiwan is a lot cheaper than Marino.

So based on what they’ve said, and an assumption that they’re just inept and inexperienced businesspeople rather than actually malicious. They probably still do have cash in the bank and plans to deliver frames.

AIUI, to be criminal they have to be knowingly trading whilst insolvent or taking the orders with no intention (or no means) of delivering on them. No way of knowing what their accounts are looking like from the outside, but assuming they’ve got any sense at all they wouldn’t be trying to trade their way out of it if there wasn’t some sort of viable plan (I.e. there are x paid up orders on the books, and they have ordered >x frames, and have cash to pay for them).

Yep. If you try and do something about it, you’re the arsehole.

At this point it’s more like a Lynch mob with no one actually sure whether there was a mugging or who was mugged but just fancies a good old stomping.

You’re the only one to call yourself and arsehole (CBA to go back and check).

Customers are being taken for mugs. The evidence suggests just that.

The point I was trying to make is. What evidence? Based one what little is actually known you could drive a supertanker sized reasonable doubt argument through it.

Pretend you ordered a bike and go mad. Video it for the lolz

Possibly the best thing I’ve read on here.
Don’t forget to tell him how you were ‘owned’ by the all the magazines they were in including Singletrack.
🙂

I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day

The Dads race is going to be gnarly brah! Totally send it.

If he beats you, you should immediately challenge him to a fight.

Probably involving pistols.

Ask him about trail-running?
Tell him you are a mountain biker but it just isn’t right for you..

They probably still do have cash in the bank and plans to deliver frames…. No way of knowing what their accounts are looking like from the outside,

Their suppliers haven’t been paid. That’s a pretty good indication that they probably don’t have cash in the bank.

assuming they’ve got any sense at all they wouldn’t be trying to trade their way out of it if there wasn’t some sort of viable plan

The evidence so far is that they don’t have any sense at all and don’t have any viable plan.

He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.

No Bombers in the car?

He’s just a bloke and usually very chatty.  I’d say hi, be sociable.  Maybe not launch into a great rant at the kids sports day and don’t pay up front for any vegan cheese ahead of delivery.

I’m not the ranting type.😎 There’s no such thing as vegan cheese😑

He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.

Easy one to beat in the dads race, though.

He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.

Easier target with a duelling pistol.

He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.

Easy one to beat in the dads race, though

According to Pinkbike he used to trail run!

Type some shit about him right here, show it to him and see if he wants a fight. Didn’t he say that at some point?

The point I was trying to make is. What evidence?

iirc….
“The frames are on their way”
“The frames are just about to be shipped and will be sent out in 10 days”
“We’re delayed getting them through customs”
“PayPal are working against us”
and more where they came from. Not word for word quotes, as I can’t be arsed searching, but certainly mugging off chat

My particular favourite was ‘If you go to PayPal for a refund, it will take longer to get your money back’

Easy one to beat in the dads race, though.

Daley Thompson’s son was in the same class as my daughter for a couple of years.

They didn’t hold the Dads race.

His kid will be the one who can’t onshore the egg onto the spoon.