UN & Argentina…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12206179/Argentina-celebrates-UN-decision-to-expand-its-maritime-territory-to-include-Falkland-Islands.html

From your beloved RT.com:

“The UN is yet to officially confirm Buenos Aires announcement, but according to Article 76, paragraphs four to seven of the Convention, the coastal state can “delineate the outer limits of its continental shelf, where that shelf extends beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines …” London is also yet to comment on Argentina’s announcement.”

My point being that this has come from Buenos Aires.

Sooo telegraph in making stuff up shocker…..

In these matters the Argentianian government seem to be daft. Successive governments take a short-term view on the Falklands and do things to get a populist approval. Why not take a longer-term view and be nice to the islands population?

If they had done this in the 1970’s/80’s the islands would most likely have been sold down the river by the UK government and the islanders would by now be British citizens living on an Argentian admisistered islands.

If they started this process now in 70-100 years time the islands could well be jointly administered or purely Argentinian. The only people who believe Britian wants an expensive military installation down there are the conspiracy nuts who think the Nazi’s have a base in the Antartic…

…or maybe it’s not Nazis but oil and gas.

The Telegraoh didn’t make it up – it was all off the wires (“from our foreign staff”). The Telegraph is barely a newspaper any more – it’s just a clickbait house with a good brand

..or maybe it’s not Nazis but oil and gas

No one’s actually got any oil from down there, the UK sending rid down there says much more about the state of the north sea fields than anything else
At current prices I can’t imagine anyone wanting to invest in oil extraction infrastructure down there!

No one’s actually got any oil from down there,

There is oil down there.

Rockhopper-shares-bounce-after-Falklands-oil-well-discovery

the UK sending rid down there says much more about the state of the north sea fields than anything else

It’s not the “UK” sending rigs down there. They have been exploring for years.

I doubt they will install any production facilities in the current climate but who knows what the oil price will be in 5 – 10 years time?

…or maybe it’s not Nazis but oil and gas.

I think the annual cost of keeping the islands defended is approaching £70 million per year. To date no revenue has come from gas. Whilst there might one day be some tax coming into HMRC coffers from oil found down there the reason we pay to defend those islands is because the people who live there consider themselves British; pretty much the same as Gibraltar which has no natural resources and a diplomatically hostile neighbour.

If oil and gas is found in quantities in easy-to-extract locations it all needs to be landed somewhere. Dealing with on-shore facilities in the nearest country with infrastructure, capability and demand would be much better than trying to transport it direct to Europe or elsewhere. The Falkland islanders would also need to import labour to run any on or off shore facilities. At this current time Chile could do well from anything found but not so for Argentina due to her previous governments child-like actions.

I believe the Argentine governments only interest in the Falklands is its usefulness as a tool for stiring popular sentiment and distracting the population when needed. All the Argentinians I have met and worked with are nice people – there is no reason that at some point in the distant future a power sharing deal or similar would not work out to everyone’s advantage – but it will never happen whilst the Argentine government acts like a petulant child, calls the islanders names and seeks to make their lives as difficult as possible.

My beloved RT? Because the BBC doesn’t have any sort of agenda at all..

Sooo telegraph in making stuff up shocker…..

Have you been following todays news ? Very real.

I believe the Argentine governments only interest in the Falklands is its usefulness as a tool for stiring popular sentiment and distracting the population when needed.

Its all about natural rescources. This has kicked off again due to substantial discoveries of offshore oil

BigEaredBiker – Member

the reason we pay to defend those islands is because the people who live there consider themselves British; pretty much the same as Gibraltar which has no natural resources and a diplomatically hostile neighbour.

If this is the case we can resolve it in a second, by ceding mineral and exploration rights to Argentina while maintaining sovereignty of the land and protecting the rights of the residents. We’re not going to do that though, so, draw your own conclusions.

FWIW I have no massive issue with holding onto the islands for reasons other than the population’s desires; I just think we shouldn’t bullshit about it.

If they had done this in the 1970’s/80’s the islands would most likely have been sold down the river by the UK government and the islanders would by now be British citizens living on an Argentian admisistered islands.

This is exactly what happened in the 70s and exactly how the war started.

The UK and Argentina teamed up to convince the Falklanders to agree to become Argentinans. Amongst other things an air service was set up to help islanders identify more with Argentina.

The Argentines naturally assumed since the UK was trying to give the islands away they could safely make it a fait acomplis and just take over the islands. After all, the UK wouldn’t fight a risky war half way around the world to win back a liability they wanted rid of.

The rest is history.

Google the 1971 Communications agreement and read Max Hastings/Simon Jenkins book on the Falklands Conflict.

You say ‘we’. Once in power alot of politicians decide what is best ‘in our interests’.

Another example was putting us in the EU. No referendum, just ‘your in’.

The costs of setting up the infrastructure to extract oil in seas even harsher than our own oil fields are extremely high.
The UKs own fields were only made available after Wilson convinced the yanks to come and show us how to do it and build the extraction infrastructure and pipes etc. (They left in a huff because it was no where near as much as hoped).

Rockhopper had the rigs towed down there 6 years ago
Have you seen a graph of the new discoveries in the north sea?

As for an oil company claiming to have struck a huge find that turned out to do nothing other than inflate their share price, well that’s never happened before 🙄

Ive seen the reports of the ‘substantial’ 😉 reserves found

At .5 km under water in the Atlantic it’s gonna be way harsher than the 100m or so depths that makes the north sea one of the most expensive places in the world to extract oil.

I’m sure that this is being used as a tubthumping exercise by concerned parties (like the torygraph) but I can’t see us running on Falkland oil any time soon, and certainly not worth the cost of spending hundreds of millions to defend the last pointless vestiges of a dead empire at the arse end of nowhere.

Hmmm, good time to be heading to Buenos Aeres and then Mendoza next week then! Looking forward to lots of red wine and steak. Oh and most definitely being Scottish rather than British.

@Northwind why on earth would we give up mineral rights ?

@kimbers difficult indeed, more difficult than Gulf of Mexico (where BP had the disaster ?) Technolgoy improves all the time, there could be a more efficient way to extract in the future. Also we don’t need to spend the money its usual to sell the rights to extract to an oil company who bears those risks.

@outofbreath indeed many errors where made before the war

lso we don’t need to spend the money its usual to sell the rights to extract to an oil company who bears those risks.

Well, yeah, but the higher the extraction cost, the lower the amount the state gets – otherwise there’s no point in oil companies extracting it.

jambalaya – Member

@Northwind why on earth would we give up mineral rights ?

Any chance you could actually read my post? Cheers

and certainly not worth the cost of spending hundreds of millions to defend the last pointless vestiges of a dead empire at the arse end of nowhere.

Just wait till Boris is PM and facing an election defeat to Labour – we’ll soon have a 2nd South Atlantic War to boost the Tory poll ratings!

indeed many errors where made before the war

I don’t see the policy from 71-82 as an error, just had an unintended and unforseen consiquence.

Plus the other far reaching consequence of demonstrating to a young Tony Blair that short victorious wars make leaders popular. Somewhere without modern weapons, creaking under sanctions… I dunno, Iraq maybe.

.

Bruk – I’m just back from Buenos Aires, and a regular there. We (English/British) are welcomed down there, any hostility is just political rabble rousing. My hotel there is right outside the Malvinas memorial, and an an ex-RAF officer, I’ve chatted amicably to the vets there.

Any chance you could actually read my post? Cheers

I read it the first time and again now, why on earth would we ceed mineral rights to Argentina ? There is simply no need amd nothing to be gained.

Go and read it again would you?

Thanks Dan, good to hear. I believe April 2nd is the anniversary of the start of the war so as you say most like a bit of political sabre rattling of benefit to both governments.

Looking forward to seeing a different country.

the reason we pay to defend those islands is because the people who live there consider themselves British; pretty much the same as Gibraltar which has no natural resources and a diplomatically hostile neighbour.

If this is the case we can resolve it in a second, by ceding mineral and exploration rights to Argentina while maintaining sovereignty of the land and protecting the rights of the residents. We’re not going to do that though, so, draw your own conclusions.[/quote]
Well put Northwind, same reason we keep Scotland – it’s nowt to do with liking you lot 😉 (Ironic and piss taking so please don’t launch into the debate on that one)

So really are we just holding on for the right offer? Not being completely across the current politics down that end but I guess any attempt to start drilling or extracting stuff would see us all off to the UN and the timeline for a new aircraft carrier accelerated (do we still have the keys to the French one?)

We’ve had the Falklands for hundreds of years, longer than the outside world has recognised the Nation and Sovereignty of Argentina itself after it was colonised by the Spanish, and all of a sudden its all about oil? Oil is an added issue/complication for sure, but only a recent one.

It might be the case that if they took a more softly softly approach we may have handed them over, but after the invasion there is no way within our lifetimes we’re going to just give it up after British blood has been spilled defending them.

We’re not going to give up Gibraltar too. It’s a key strategic military outpost and if there ever was another big war we’d want control over the entrance to the Med. We’d want to be able to spot any of those pesky Russian subs trying to sneak out of the Med from Sevastopol in the Black Sea or any to their Black Sea fleet – they could be in the Atlantic and English Channel in a matter of hours once they’re past Gibraltar. We wouldn’t want to / couldn’t rely on the Spanish in a time of war, or any of our European partners for that matter, so we have to make plans assuming we’d be the last man standing in Europe again and Gibraltar is of key strategic military significance. He who controls Gibraltar controls the Med. But then again if we found oil deposits of the Gibraltar coast I guess there would be those crying “Ahhh, you see, it was all about the oil after all”. Maybe we’re hedging out bets.

A colleague at work was in the Army in the ’80’s and was posted to Gibraltar during the Falklands campaign as there was a genuine threat of invasion from the Spanish while our focus and most of our military hardware was diverted thousands of miles to the south. And he French were not completely squeaky clean during the Falklands war despite their embargo on arms sales to Argentina once the war started, and continued to provide some assistance to the Argentinians during the war, which ultimately lead to the loss of British lives. With friends like those….

…it’s a good thing the British arms industry has never been too choosy about who it sells weapons to. I mean about to whom it sells weapons. Weapons, to whom it sells. You know what I mean.

…including Argentina.

Oops.

Still, we’ve learned that lesson about not arming people who might become our enemies, haven’t we?

Including Argentina !

Just wait till Boris is PM and facing an election defeat to Labour – we’ll soon have a 2nd South Atlantic War to boost the Tory poll ratings!

I didn’t know Boris had links capable of arranging such an action. Never mind getting elected as PM

He’ll have to remove all the military from the island first

then sort out the problem that we couldn’t actually do it again

never mind reequipping the Argentinians

etc etc

@kimbers where does that chart come from. We sell £50m pa of arms to Israel, wtf does nearly £8bn come from a figure 4x Saudi. I note it says “value of licences” so I suspect its just bollix. EDIT: anti Isael groups usually couod as “military” aid thr £1.8bn pa in licence fees uk companies pay Isael for mobile phone security software.

Argentina INVADED the Falklands. You can’t do that without expecting a military response. As above the Falklands where never part of Argentina, they where traded to the British by the Spanish when they ran the region

I see Gibralter quoted and Spain’s discomfort. Spain has two port areas in mainland Morocco it has retained. Pot. Kettle.

I included to illustrate the point that wed sold weapons to Argentina that ended up killing our own men

our arms trade truly is a great source of pride 😳

pick away jamby,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blood-money-uk-s-123bn-arms-sales-to-repressive-states-8711794.html

they where traded to the British by the Spanish when they ran the region

see my comment about dead empires 😀

Have you been following todays news ? Very real.

Yup as i said , just made up clickbait coz torygraph/sun know that their target demographic have a hard-on for ‘Outrage over Argentina’

https://theconversation.com/falklands-row-adds-up-to-much-ado-about-not-much-in-the-south-atlantic-56956

Not that I agree with selling arms to anyone much less the more dubious governments out there but the infographic is a bit misleading IMO, from the guardian:
“This article was amended on 8 August 2014. An earlier version in both the headline and the text said that the British government is reviewing the sale of £8bn in arms and military goods to Israel. To clarify: of the £8bn of controlled export licences under review £7.75bn is for commercial equipment, mostly cryptographic software to supply Israel’s mobile phone networks.”
It still doesn’t excuse the sales as a whole but i’m not sure the figures can be relied upon and as we know if you post on STW someone is bound to check! 😉

I included to illustrate the point that wed sold weapons to Argentina that ended up killing our own men
our arms trade truly is a great source of pride

French weapons killed more. Perhaps we should go to war with that evil empire.

the Falklands…where traded to the British by the Spanish…Spain has two port areas in mainland Morocco it has retained. Pot. Kettle.

French weapons killed more. Perhaps we should go to war with that evil empire.

Why do you think that we really keep Trident? (And, indeed, why it is in the hands of the Royal Navy)

This lady sums it up from the Islanders’ perspective: