UK Falling behind

Tom_W1987 – Member

The thing is, what is the damn point. With the way technology is going we need to encourage creativity, instead of attempting to compete with computers on memory recall and computational power.

They boss you worker. You work. You no lazy. Chop! Chop!

Creativity? They are comfortable as they are besides they were creative lot until they shut their doors to outside world.

🙄

With the way technology is going we need to encourage creativity, instead of attempting to compete with computers on memory recall and computational power.

This is truely worrying. Computers are dumb deterministic machines that are only capable of doing what the human tells them to do. Without the knowledge to actually understand the question that you are asking how can you ever hope to understand the answer.

It is become more prevelant that when asked a question people (and this is by no means limited to the young) respond with “the computer says…” when in fact the computer says no such thing it has just spat out an answer to whatever problem it was presented with.

I use computers every day to perform calculations that would otherwise take weeks, but I still write up most of my calculations by hand and I am a better engineer because of it.

So should I send my child to Korea to be educated?

Whats worrying in the whole world figures is the low percentages that could do this simple arithmetic. Not even a 1/3rd at the highest. My personal believe is that kids are too reliant on electronics to be able to spot relationships between things.

^^ Exactly. It’s not a difficult question but it requires a solid understanding of the relationship between speed/distance/time etc.

I’m a bit sympathetic because this is a question that 70% of adults will probably get wrong.

Falling behind in math(s)? In the global race?

What is this race and is it really that important?

Who actually cares?

It’s not a problem for you ‘cos the till in McDonalds automatically works out the change. Bloody hell, if this is the attitude…

How would you measure this?

In the response to these kind of reports. We are v quick to rubbish them etc. but as you say this is not difficult maths. Basic ratio questions is 12-13 yr old stuff and easy to learn and to teach. Why shouldn’t we be ashamed that we can’t score 100%, why should we think that this is not important. As I said before, it is not the be all and end all, but it’s sad that we no longer aim higher in education.

Is a bit like teachers saying why bother to use textbooks that go beyond the curriculum. That says a lot about how we approach education.

AA, many Asians send their children to be educated over here especially in the 6th form as I am sure you are aware. My younger son plays in various orchestrates, in one case there are 28 string players of whom 24 are Asian students. Thank goodness they come here because without them the numbers capable of playing at a high standards would not be enough to support several orchestras. But the good news is that they do come here? Why because there is excellence in UK education. We are world class at it but we do not use this skill correctly or widely enough.

We don’t need to go to Scandinavia or Asia for the answers. There are here in the UK. We just need to look closer and execute better.

Is a bit like teachers saying why bother to use textbooks that go beyond the curriculum. That says a lot about how we approach education measure the success of teachers.

Fixed that for you.

Well it’s a bit of both mike isn’t it?

anagallis_arvensis – Member

So should I send my child to Korea to be educated?

Yes, to let him/her see the competition ahead heading his/her way.

teamhurtmore – Member

AA, many Asians send their children to be educated over here especially in the 6th form as I am sure you are aware.

Several things:

1. Their parents still consider UK one of the best place for education – largely duped by agents or they are old fashion etc, old news, old impression etc.

2. Their parents have been heavily influenced (duped) by the advertisements or agents.

3. Some of them still consider UK the place to migrate over in future so send their children to start young by studying here.

4. They try to show off to their friends that they are able to send their children over for education at young age.

5. Early start at 6th form or earlier so that they can get a “guaranteed” place at the Uni., because the children would be “in the system”.

But the good news is that they do come here? Why because there is excellence in UK education. We are world class at it but we do not use this skill correctly or widely enough.

They come here for the above reasons. Some of their parents do not even know what their children are studying. They think that they are in capable hands to guide them to Uni etc.

UK is NOT excellence in education. There are other systems available but majority consider UK amongst the best because the world population speaks English (former colonies) that is why they come here … thinking that they are advance … until they are here.

I would certainly advice others against coming to study in UK for non-science subjects because it is an entirely total waste of life.

🙄

Well it’s a bit of both mike isn’t it?

It is, but what drives the approach to teaching is the push from central government to constantly monitor and evaluate progress, rather than actually educating.

My daughter has been put off English this year, because they’re doing loads of work to make sure they get through the spelling, punctuation and grammar tests that Gove introduced.

As far as i can see, the SPaG testing was brought in because it’s cheap to mark and it’s a way for Gove to ‘prove’ standards were poor at the start of his term in office and will ‘improve’ after his reforms.

Well I am very glad that many Asians disagree with you chewkw and hope that they continue to do so.

Well it’s a bit of both mike isn’t it?

Not really, i regularly teach beyond the curriculum in A2 as thats necesary to get an A*. I regulrly do it at KS 3 as it adds some interest fir the bright kids and they’ll need it at GCSE and A level any way. At GCSE I dont becayse the less able just want a C and it wouldnt help them and the more able, who are doing Triple GCSE are too loaded down with other gcse’s and therefore do not have enough time on their sciences to do anything beyond what they need to know.

This rarely involves text books though as I have enough trouble just getting the books for the courses.

teamhurtmore – Member

Well I am very glad that many Asians disagree with you chewkw and hope that they continue to do so.

Of course they will disagree.

1. They are already here aren’t they? They have already paid and the system has already tied them down.

2. Are they then going to go around advertising that they have achieved nothing here? Yet after paying so much and is below their expectation?

3. Are they going to embarrass themselves? I doubt it.

4. Also some of them do not know what they do not know. i.e. how do they know they are missing out if they have no such knowledge?

5. Of course they will continue to come over … the agents get paid commissions. The agents will sell their own parents if they had to.

6. Asians (i.e. Indian, Pakistan etc) will definitely still consider UK the place to be by comparison to their home country. This is largely because most still hold on to the old image of British Empire (trust me some of them still think so … ) and the fact that the opportunity is great here.

7. Other Asians … similar situation. Agents sell the ideas etc … yes, they will come over for the moment because of the exchange rate.

For me if they continue to come to UK that’s fine with me. I would rather they concentrate here then to go to other nations.

However, one thing that is definite … this over hyped and sells talk will not last long … grab them while they are still heading this way.

🙄

Flaperon – Member

Falling behind in math(s)? In the global race?

What is this race and is it really that important?

Who actually cares?

It’s not a problem for you ‘cos the till in McDonalds automatically works out the change. Bloody hell, if this is the attitude…

I can work my own change out thanks and i’m sure most of the population can without a till. Children don’t need to be be measured constantly, they need to be nurtured. As a former secondary teacher,I know that constantly measuring performance is relatively pointless.

Joe Hart can save shots all day long on a training pitch, but in a match it you are in a completely different scenario. What’s the point measuring a a child in a classroom situation constantly if he or she is in real life is going to be welding a pipeline under the North Sea or dealing in the derivative market. All we need to know is that they are well rounded individuals when they come out of school and a single exam will not tell you this.

My daughter has been put off English this year, because they’re doing loads of work to make sure they get through the spelling, punctuation and grammar tests that Gove introduced.

But, hypothetically, will her spelling and grammar be better after the work?

I think we can safely assume Gove introduced the change to improve this rather than make it worse. IIRC teaching stuff does indeed make you better at it as well, who knew?*

Why are you asking? – granted it was grammatically beautiful but it isa pointless question to which the answer is hypothetically known
I know what I value more.

* I suspect even Gove is not that crap he could make it worse whilst trying to improve it but at what cost in other areas like say comprehension etc

But, hypothetically, will her spelling and grammar be better after the work?

I doubt it, but she’ll be better prepared for a test which in itself is of dubious value. She was on track for level 6 in English anyway, what this has done is made her enjoy her English lessons less.

I think we can safely assume Gove introduced the change to improve this rather than make it worse. IIRC teaching stuff does indeed make you better at it as well, who knew?

Who knows the reasons behind some of his ideas; they certainly don’t seem to be based upon any sound reasoning, from where I’m sitting. The SPaG tests specifically seemed to come from nowhere, plus bizarre tests like the nonsense-word phonics tests for Reception children.

I suspect even Gove is not that crap he could make it worse whilst trying to improve it but at what cost in other areas like say comprehension etc

It’s the cost in other areas that’s the problem. If you increase specific teaching/assessment of one area, something else has to be dropped.