Home Forums Chat Forum U.S. Presidential Election 2020

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  • U.S. Presidential Election 2020
  • inkster
    Free Member

    Matt Hancock’s not confusing censorship with community standards is he?

    All Twitter and the like have done is got the mods in.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Hancock is not renowned for being smart.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Evidently he’s not overly busy with covid-19 and the near-collapse of the NHS either.

    But the really important question to be answered about these social media platforms is still whether or not you’re a customer

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Conan addresses the nation…

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    That’s a pretty strong, but accurate summation of where we are.

    pk13
    Full Member

    When the bloke from Twins makes more sense in 5mins than years of Whitehouse bile

    pipm1
    Free Member

    In the first paragraph that Forbes article says America is “the world’s oldest democracy…” and I’ve heard that mentioned previously in the last few days. It isn’t though, is it? Google* says they’re been around for donkey’s years, why do the American’s keep saying this? Weird.

    Edit: maybe it is more their electoral college & gubbins that they’re referring to being so great.
    Edit2: DuckDuckGo actually, dunno why i typed Google.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    But the really important question to be answered about these social media platforms is still whether or not you’re a customer

    Reminds me of zokes. 😀

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Sounds like Parler is hosed. Chief exec is doing interviews. Amazon gave them 24hrs notice of termination of their hosting, their lawyers have dumped them, no other tech companies will work with them – so it all gets turned off at midnight PT.

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    Sounds like Parler is hosed

    How excellent.  I’m sure that there will be some non-US sites that could host it but lack of lawyers is a different matter for those in charge.  Looks like civil society is now protecting a failing government.

    piemonster
    Free Member

    It isn’t though, is it? Google* says they’re been around for donkey’s years, why do the American’s keep saying this? Weird.

    I think it’ll be tied into when a country with democratic features truly becomes a democracy. Or some other such set of criteria to get the result.

    e.g. For the U.K.

    Britain did not become a democracy until the Representation of the People Acts of 1918 and 1928 that gave the vote to all men and women over the age of 21.

    Although that would challenge the assertion the US is as old as I’m seeing claimed when they still had slavery.

    And they’re also probably referring to surviving examples.

    piemonster
    Free Member

    Just popped in to link to Parler Watch on Reddit but seems like it’s a bit late

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/

    p7eaven
    Free Member

    Just took a look at bi*chute dot com as that’s now being lauded as the ‘non-PC’ and non-‘state-controlled’ alternative to youtube.

    If that is where the future lies, then I give up on humanity*

    Trending today:

    Chauvinistic cult leaders
    Anti-vaxxing
    Conspiracy
    Racism
    Conspiracy
    MAGA
    Infowars
    americafirst
    Flatearth

    Nice to see some balanced and nuanced views eh?

    *Disclaimer: Working on the assumption/historical trend that where The Great US of A leads – little Britain follows. A race to the bottom?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    US did not have a full franchise for voting until the mid 60s. Democracy was founded in ancient greece which is where the word comes from. Its just another example of US exceptionalism and ignorance to call it the oldest democracy

    Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία, dēmokratiā, from dēmos ‘people’ and kratos ‘rule’)

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I don’t think there is any strict definition as to what constitutes “a” democracy rather than having a constitution that has elements which are democratic. Hence the (pointless) arguments.

    piemonster
    Free Member

    I don’t think the claim is to the birthplace, more the extant examples. Which also doesn’t work.

    Riksbar
    Full Member

    Greece did invent democracy, but it died and and Greece was a monarchy well into the 20th century (Phil the Greek). The USA was the first nation of the modern era to have an elected head of state, which is still extant. Think about the way the world was run in 1789.

    (Edit to add Haiti was close but a couple of years later.)

    markgraylish
    Free Member

    <Sidebar>

    Weirdly, the residents* of Washington DC don’t have (full) representation in the US democracy, as their representatives in Congress don’t actually have voting rights
    (DC is not a state**…)

    *~710,000 people, more than Virginia or Wyoming!

    **I only just realized this after reading an article in today’s NYTimes…

    </Sidebar>

    Carry on…

    pipm1
    Free Member

    Thanks. Their system of democracy doesn’t even sound good, as mentioned previously about big countryside states having more weight per person than some more populace ones & run-offs, due to racial considerations. It seems like there’s more to be ashamed of in such a system than there is to claim it is the worlds bestest, not that we in the UK can talk our system is fairly garbage. Maybe one day they’ll change it’d be nice if the recent events would help drive it.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Some more video from the Capitol.

    https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-99178053752

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Their system of democracy doesn’t even sound good, as mentioned previously about big countryside states having more weight per person than some more populace ones & run-offs, due to racial considerations.

    That’s not even the biggest problem. They have massive societal and cultural problems and their media only exploits and perpetuates it for the sake of ad revenue.

    Superficial
    Free Member

    That’s not even the biggest problem. They have massive societal and cultural problems and their media only exploits and perpetuates it for the sake of ad revenue.

    I think there’s a lot of truth in that last line. I really think we are seeing the beginning of a realisation of the failure of capitalism. It’s not serving anyone but the elite few while America is becoming less powerful on the world stage. Meanwhile, China and Russia are rising.

    It’s quite a fascinating time to be alive.

    jimmy748
    Full Member

    This is quite something.

    bruneep
    Full Member

    kelvin
    Full Member

    US did not have a full franchise for voting until the mid 60s.

    True.

    Democracy was founded in ancient greece which is where the word comes from.

    Ancient Greece never had full franchise for voting, at any point in its history

    Its just another example of US exceptionalism and ignorance to call it the oldest democracy

    Depends on what you call democracy. Head of state and all representatives elected?

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Greece played a huge part in what later democracies modelled themselves on but it was far from ideal.

    Slavery was an integral part of ancient Greece.

    However, for its time it was hugely progressive and deserves its place in humanities history.

    I suspect what we perceive a democracy as being will be very different from now in 50 years time.

    Chinese hyper capitalism combined with authoritarian rule could be dominant. Russia is basically a dictatorship, a mafia state and I don’t see it competing with China economically or as a super power. Big plans but on a small budget, hence its use of cheap/effective hybrid warfare. It is in decline just in a very different way. Remove fossil fuels from their economy and they are in a mess.

    Edit: As someone said, democracy in Greece was eventually extinguished. That seems very pertinent at the moment.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    That ‘no fly’ clip is the sound of a manbaby finally having to face the consequences of one of his actions…

    Reminds you of a certain alt-right slogan about ‘**** around and finding out’. 🙂

    inkster
    Free Member

    “That’s not even the biggest problem. They have massive societal and cultural problems and their media only exploits and perpetuates it for the sake of ad revenue.”

    Unfortunately it is the problem and the reason you won’t see an end to the problem in our lifetime. The Senate was set up the way it is in order to appease the ex slave owning states and the mid western states who’d hoped to become slave owning states and gutted that they wouldn’t be able to.

    It was done in order to bring the rebel states onside in the shadow of the civil war. It was done in the name of ‘healing’ the nation. Remember that the next time a politician uses the word ‘healing.’

    The Senate is quite literally white supremacy signed into law. A vote for a senator in Mississippi is worth a hundred and twenty votes cast in California for instance. So to say it is not the biggest problem seem quite strange to me.

    If you were to say it’s an underlying problem so massive that it will never be addressed, the best we can do is apply a few sticking plasters or paper over the cracks until it all blows up again sometime in the future then I’d agree with you. That is probably what’s going to happen.

    The Senate is less Democratic than our House of Lords. Our second house is made up of appointees by the sitting government, rather like the supreme court.

    The Senate is the original sin of post civil war America. The Senate makes the vote of one person worth more than that of another. It’s black and white.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Some commentary on stop the steal from an observer…

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Kelvin – as Moley said – it depends how you count it.

    Democracy was invented in Greece but as you point out it was not universal suffrage.

    If you want it to be universal suffrage then US certainly was not first as it wasn’t until the mid 60s UK was 1928

    for me a democracy has fully elected head of state and legislature ( so not the UK) and universal suffrage so the US is not first either.

    Finland would have a decent claim to have had the longest continuous democracy with universal suffrage depending how you see its time under Russian control but autonomous. Denmark would be next

    imnotverygood
    Full Member

    Sorry to be technical about it, but democracy means that sovereign power rests with the people. It actually has nothing to do with how you elect a government. Sovereignty is about where legitimate political power is derived from.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Britain did not become a democracy until the Representation of the People Acts of 1918 and 1928 that gave the vote to all men and women over the age of 21.

    If that’s your criteria, then New Zealand would be the first democracy.

    I think a better way to think about it is that’s there’s a continuum from less to more democratic. The U.S. adopted a form of democracy after the War of Independence, but it was somewhat limited and the 20th century saw it become much more democratic.

    Britain had a limited form of democracy before the U.S., but it wasn’t until the 19th century that countries generally started granting the vote to non property holders, so that’s when democracy as we understand it really got started.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Don’t wish to derail this discussion on defining what democracy is but I saw this on Twitter and was suitably amused

    thols2
    Full Member

    somafunk
    Full Member

    thols2
    Full Member

    somafunk
    Full Member

    That’s gonna hurt him bigly

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Jesus H Christ.

    The PGA is involved?

    Ok I’m kidding because it is significant.

    The backers, the complicit, the money, the establishment he is so fond of saying he is not part of (but is the worst of) is turning outs back on him.

    One day changed everything.

    Could one day, as yet unforeseen, change everything here too?

    I hope so but not in the way it played out there.

    I suspect there is no such national epiphany here for at least a few more years.

    thols2
    Full Member

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