Home Forums Chat Forum U.S. Presidential Election 2020

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  • U.S. Presidential Election 2020
  • tjagain
    Full Member

    There is no free speech issue in this at all. Parler can set up its own servers etc and exercise their right to shout rubbish

    IMO this explains it well

    https://xkcd.com/1357/

    chvck
    Free Member

    Parler in big trouble now. Hosted by Amazon, probably needs to be rebuilt from the ground up even if it finds a new host because of reliance on Amazon code.

    Parler have already said they built the platform to be decoupled from Amazon so won’t require a huge rebuild. Whether they can find another provider to host them is another matter though.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    I think TJ sums it up there.

    The specific point Inkster was stating was that the US had “succumbed” to mob rule, when clearly it hadn’t.

    It hasn’t succumbed to mob rule but there were people in both chambers who were happy to flirt with the idea – up to the point where they were having to hide from the mob along with all their colleagues. I image there were some interesting conversations at that point. They may not have intended the outcome that the mob would barge their way in to the building but they are certainly seduced that ‘the mob’ can be king-makers.

    There is a debate to be had about how a few tech firms can wipe out free speech, even if you’re happy for Parler to get canned, which I am.

    Protection of speech isn’t in the remit of private companies.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    Donnie has a manned news room, he can broadcast to the US 24/7 if he wanted… he just doesn’t want to as he might have to answer difficult questions. As for Parler being some kind bastion of free speech is total bollox anyone left of General Pinochet gets kicked off pronto.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I agree with the right of a company to withdraw its service, and I’d like Parler and half its users fired into space if possible. I think that at some point we need to reflect on how political communication has changed, its dependence on the likes of Twitter, FB, Google, Apple and Amazon, and what that means for the future.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    People still underestimate Trump. He has shown time and time again that he knows how to give contradictory messages to different groups of his followers, often on the same day, using ambiguous/deniable language and different tones/styles of delivery.

    It maybe that he’s clever, perhaps whats more dangerous is that he’s ambivalent. It seems his contradictory messaging is just a symptom of not actually caring what the outcome is. His cleverness is just that he’s well practiced at not being lost for words even if he has nothing to say. Following his build up to the rally and the speech itself people were hearing what they wanted to from the language his chose. That lead to some people turning up at the capitol with  symbols – a  gallows, a pitchfork and so on, some arriving actually equipped to take hostages, and some in pant-suits and selfie sticks.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Parler’s new server.

    thols2
    Full Member

    p7eaven
    Free Member

    There is a debate to be had about how a few tech firms can wipe out free speech, even if you’re happy for Parler to get canned, which I am.

    I think the debate that’s not being had is who is ultimately responsible for provision of a platform? What is Twitter or Parler? A forum? Public? Private? A club? Speakers Corner? If they are forums then it has to be established legally whether they are public or private. And as they (internet fora) cross geographic and political borders, to which legal body do they answer? Of course this doesn’t matter to the narrative for millions of internet-users. If they feel aggrieved to lose access to a platform (no matter how it was provided to them, or by whichever conditions/TOS) then they nonetheless feel it is their ‘right’ to have access.

    I’d like to think these are simply teething troubles of a culture that is moving from social interaction in the real world to a kind of antisocial interaction in a semi-virtual world. The thing is, in the real physical social world of olden times (in the streets, parks, bars and houses) you’d call someone an idiot/nazi/commie/racial slur to their face and you’d get some pretty immediate feedback from all parties within earshot. And some knock-on feedback in your social life down the line. Not just words on a screen from anonymous people with whom you neither live nor work.

    In the ‘virtual’ world the push and feedback looks like a weird dream of millions of semi-people, differentiated and experienced as short bursts of text with a little square profile pic of a tabby cat, a cartoon frog, a Maltese Cross.

    So many of the supportive (of Trump) comments I’ve read in youtube after the botched/half-arsed insurrection have been from self-styled objectivists/Randians.

    This has been a prominent ‘insider’ trend of internet culture idealogues for 20 years IME. A ragtag collection of libertarians/anti-collectivists/objectivists/confused anarcho whateverists have been with some success attempting to sculpt the internet as their own for two decades or more. For most of the actual public life of the internet. For anyone (like me) who hasn’t jumped down that rabbit hole – you are known as a ‘normie’ and are seen as a sheeplike creature with no brain, beholden in every way to ‘the state’, and your willing dumbitude. The very root of what has become internet culture feels like a sociopath looking for a supply. In ‘pandemic world’ the internet has increasingly become most people’s ‘social’ lives so recruitment of ‘sheep’ is high. Like a game. ‘Prizes’ such as Brexit, Trump, conspiracy, widespread confusion, anti-mask/antivaxx cults, this week’s bizarre ‘insurrection’, destruction of Western social compacts, etc, etc. All was once a game for the players in mom’s basement (including the ones that since moved out yet never grew up) yet now the breach into ‘normie’ world is complete. Now we live in a world where your uncle Fred (who used to like rugby and motorbikes) is instead stuck indoors having a new kind of fun bashing away at his phone in on twitworld, raging against cousin Dave (and millions of strangers/bots/actors whom he never met) about the ‘soyboy feminazi Marxinist Islamist plandemic’. He’s going to take to the streets/Mosque/parliament next Sunday and ‘sort it out’. Freedumb.

    Tom-B
    Free Member

    I’ve read that Trump is considering Rudy Giuliani for his defence team against impeachment 😳

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    This dismissal of the potential seriousness of what occurred last week

    I didn’t dismiss the seriousness of the situation, or downplay that it was a coup attempt, I was pointing out that a specific claim that America had “succumbed to mob rule” was obviously incorrect, because America is still being run by it’s elected government.

    The threat is still there, and I’m all for vigilance – especially over here. We are on that same downward spiral.

    But overly dramatic language, in my opinion, risks both encouraging the nutters who think they are succeeding more than they are, and making ordinary people dismiss the danger as being overblown hysteria.

    inkster
    Free Member

    That footage of the cop getting crushed in the door looks like a medical siege. It reminded me of a scene in that Luc Besson film ‘Joan of Arc’. I bet that’s who Ivanka will style herself on in the coming months.

    I read an Umberto Eco essay from the late 70’s called ‘The new middle ages where he foresaw a post cold war and the asymmetric nature of the conflicts that would ensu. In a way it kind of predicted the end of the age of reason and I think this is what we are seeing here.

    This activity doesn’t belong in a world shaped by the French revolution, (That has shaped politics left and right for 200 years). It comes from a time before, it comes from the dark ages, a time when superstition ruled, a time before the adoption of the scientific method.

    Other films / plays that come to mind are ‘The Crucible’ by Arthur Miller, set in a time just before the enlightenment took hold. And Umberto Eco’s ‘Name of the Rose’ where a pre enlightenment monk applies forensics, science and light to a world of dark superstition.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I’ve read that Trump is considering Rudy Giuliani for his defence team against impeachment

    Let’s hope so. The Giuliani, Lin Wood, Sidney Powell dream team has served the US public well so far.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    Kraken++

    thols2
    Full Member

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Parler Says It Has Removed Lin Wood’s Posts Calling For Mike Pence to Be Executed

    Sellouts! I’m off to Gab!

    piemonster
    Free Member

    That’s quite interesting, the Trumpists are so reactionary they probably already are turning on Parler.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    Kamala Harris is an anagram of shark malaria (@Grauniad Everyman xword), makes you think!

    nickc
    Full Member

    There is a debate to be had about how a few tech firms can wipe out free speech

    Twitter has been ‘a thing’ since what 2007 or some such…Are you suggesting that Free speech was only a thing for a little over a decade?

    inkster
    Free Member

    https://mobile.twitter.com/sullydish

    EDIT:

    didn’t embed properly, clip shows a policeman actively opening the barricades and imploring the mob to invade.

    p7eaven
    Free Member

    @thols2 – I see the irony of Parler censoring it’s user’s fReSpeACh™

    It could have been a ‘moment’ for Parler users to have a few rational or even confusing thoughts erupt in their heads?

    But wasn’t that only just in before Amazon and Apple withdrew those services and have effectively deleted Parler? That will only inflame Parler users and send them to find deeper rabbit holes and further into ‘dark web’ terrain? Or will they leave social media and be content with shouting at random immigrants in pubs and bars? Oh, the pubs are shut too.

    This is beyond ‘ideal’ recruitment ground/fertile spawning waters for terrorists, nihilists, etc. For a growing conspiracists and cults the internet seems a goose which can lay nothing but golden eggs. Every act of suppression or defence is counted as an attack on fReEsPeAcH and/or further validation of (xyz) conspiracy theory/ies. Double-bound double-binds all round. Argh, my tin foil feels so unreal. Or is it real? 🤪

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    What is worrying is that there are fascist/racist/supremacist iPhone users! 🙂


    @klunk
    Kraken double plus good, if you will.

    thols2
    Full Member

    @inkster

    I assume you were trying to link to this

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    There is a debate to be had about how a few tech firms can wipe out free speech

    There’s no debate really. Twitter is a business. It supplies a soap box. It’s their soapbox and if they don’t like some of the people standing on it they can push them off. You sign up to the Ts & Cs when you join. It’s generally more “inclusive” than some of the billionaire owned press and TV businesses.

    p7eaven
    Free Member

    There’s no debate really

    Agreed. It’s just becoming a widely accepted ‘fact’.

    #alternativetruth

    thols2
    Full Member

    inkster
    Free Member

    thols2,

    No, it shows a fat cop running up to the barriers and gesturing vigorously towards the mob, saying; GO, GO, GO.

    like an army sergeant ushering the troops up Omaha beach sort of thing.

    inkster
    Free Member

    Anyone else see a purge of the Police and Military coming?

    I know you pointed out how difficult it is for government to introduce police reform but these are extraordinary times. No doubt Federal over reach would be resisted but with 50% of Republican voters supporting the coup attempt you can’t afford to ignore the cancer within.

    I imagine there are tens of thousands of police and Military personell bricking it right now / hastily deleting their social media accounts.

    grum
    Free Member

    They are really claiming you should be able to directly threaten to kill people and organise a coup under ‘free speech’ – does that extend to Islamic terrorists I wonder?

    They literally don’t think white christian ‘patriots’ should have to be constrained in any way at all because they are so obviously right.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Anyone else see a purge of the Police and Military coming?

    If they’ve been posting on social media about doing illegal stuff, sure. But that will only catch the truly stupid ones. The less stupid ones will still be there.

    p7eaven
    Free Member

    didn’t embed properly, clip shows a policeman actively opening the barricades and imploring the mob to invade.

    Timestamp? Was he threatened?

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Agreed. It’s just becoming a widely accepted ‘fact’.

    #alternativetruth

    What’s also interesting is this push to remove section 230, when in reality removing the liability protection that provides would make hosting Parler/Twitter/Facebook etc. impractical.

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    People often see their “rights” in isolation – from other people having that same right and also other people’s other rights. So your right to free speech cannot interfere with someone else’s right not to be attacked by other people. The exact balance is always the key, but generally the right to not be assaulted or killed comes above the right to say what you want.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    every time you think things are calming down they seem to be getting worse.  I wonder what Trump is actually up to as you never hear anything any more from him.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Yup. John Mulaney comes to mind. The horse loose in the hospital has gone quiet.

    PJM1974
    Free Member
    inkster
    Free Member

    Steven Bumbera (@bumbera_steven) Tweeted: Confirmed that some police were involved in the Capitol attack yesterday #CapitolRiots https://t.co/XawgoRK8T8 https://twitter.com/bumbera_steven/status/1347270969988173825?s=20

    Hope this link works, it’s worth seeing.

    EDIT:

    Yes it works, it’s absolutely damming, not a case of complicity but active direction so the mob.

    As I said earlier, just like a sergeant leading troops up Omaha beach.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Good interview with the Parler chief exec by Kara Swisher on her Sway podcast. Very timely. Interesting that he portrays himself as politically agnostic, refuses to vote, although his platform and investors are predominantly right-wing.

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    Matt Hancock is also failing to understand how free-speech works according to the latest news.

Viewing 40 posts - 4,761 through 4,800 (of 5,513 total)

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