U.S. Presidential Election 2020

I fear that nothing will happen in terms of impeachment or the 25th

The impeachment, along with withdrawing the pension (about $200,000 a year) takes away the travel expenses (a million dollars) the secret service protection, and perhaps most importantly; bars him from standing in an election again…Something some other candidates in the GOP might actually be interested in.

The genie is out of the bottle and they won’t just back down, and now he’s said they were wrong to do it I’d be surprised if a lot of them don’t turn on him and his family as well

This. It’s only going to take a very few / one real nutter to decide that terrorism is justified….

Is there a grassy mound near the inauguration site? 😞

The inauguration security will be handled by the Secret Service and FBI, not the Capitol Police.

The reason republicans want him banned from standing again is because he’d do so in his own name, splitting the right’s vote.

Some very good points why impeachment would suit the Republicans that I hadn’t grasped, thanks.

Would ditching Trump regain more “moderate” Republican voters compared to how many extreme voters they’d lose? You’d hope so…

My guess is that the MAGA crowd will end up as an extreme-right party, the centrist Republicans and Democrats will end up in a centrist party, and the Bernie and Squad people will end up in a left-wing party. The centrist party will probably be called the Democratic Party, and the MAGA party the Republican Party, but the MAGA crew might abandon the GOP and just call themselves MAGA. In that case, the more moderate voters who abandoned the GOP will switch back again and take moderate Democrats with them.

Painted a massive target on his back now, I’d be more worried about the nut jobs with guns than the 25th, impeachment or IRS if I was him.

Very much this^^^^^, he’s gonna be exposed for exactly what he is, a spoiled rich kid who’s cheated and blagged his way through life and, at 74 years old, is not getting his own way for the 1st time while the whole world watches on. He used them to get their votes then cast them aside, just as he has done to many others over the years and when the penny drops, for a lot of them, he will now be even worse than the ‘deep state’ he’s claimed to have been fighting against for the last 4 years

Eyes will turn to the UK now.

We are about to swing so far populist rightwards that we’ll be misremembering Margaret Thatcher as a ‘Mo Mowlam’ figure, while casting Mo herself as Chairwoman Mo Of The Communist Left 😢

No we arent. There’s not the support for that. Whoever claims the centre ground will win the next election.

The question is are there 16 Republican senators who will vote to impeach? I’m not convinced.

thols2.

Sullivan is an anti Trump conservative.

So what, many of the Conservative commentators are anti Trump. You don’t get a credit for being anti evil.

He has spent the last year bashing BLM, doing Trumps work for him without realising it. I mentioned he had had an epiphany because he pretty much said so himself yesterday on his Twitter thread (I pulled the actual quote if you cared to look)

Now is not the time to talk about our ‘favourite’ conservative commentators or go making excuses for them, I used to quite like Andrew Neil for example, right now I’d like to comb his hair with bombers.

Sullivan an his ilk misread the toppling of statues and a few feminists carrying cardboard placards as the beginnings of a Maoist revolution, the end of civilosation as we know it. Whilst an actual revolution was brewing under their noses and wittingly or not, with their able assistance.

They got it wrong. The assisted and enabled this descent into anarchy. Sometimes it’s malevolent, sometimes it’s playing the dangerous game of cultural Marxism and sometimes, despite the Oxbridge degrees and all that it’s plain old crass stupidity. Whatever the intention it’s the outcome that counts and Rome burned whilst him and others like him twiddled their pencils, all the while being paid handsomely for it.

So technically, Sullivan isn’t as bad as Tucker Carlson, the soon to be new leader of The Cracker Party (or should that be The Quacker Party?) You don’t get a pass for that. They yelled fire where there was none whilst they were setting little fires of their own that they thought they could control. They are the arsonists of democracy.

the more moderate voters who abandoned the GOP

The numbers of moderate republicans who abandoned the gop are insignificant.

Any Republican who now refuses to impeach Trump is as guilty as him, they would be merely putting the coup attempt on hold, save it for another day, maybe when they have a slightly less deranged leader and more Army Generals on their side. (They have the police on their side at the moment but they know this is not enough, remember Ceausescu? He had his secret police on side but not the Army)

If they vote against impeachment they will be voting with one hand on the bible and the other on a fire extinguisher.

Sullivan an his ilk misread the toppling of statues and a few feminists carrying cardboard placards as the beginnings of a Maoist revolution, the end of civilosation as we know it. Whilst an actual revolution was brewing under their noses and wittingly or not, with their able assistance.

No, I don’t think so. There was very widespread support for police reforms and support for peaceful protests against police brutality. Sensible people warned that burning down police stations and rioting were counterproductive. The “Defund the Police” slogan was just stupid. That sort of shit helped Trump because it allowed him to paint BLM as dangerous extremists. Criticizing rioters was not doing anything to support Trump, unless you think Joe Biden was a Trump supporter.

The reason the anti-Trump conservatives left the Republican Party was because they saw how dangerous he was years ago. They actually played a major role in his electoral defeat because they helped convince moderate voters that Biden was a better choice than Trump. Those moderate voters would not have voted for Sanders.

That doesn’t mean I agree with a lot of what George Conway, Andrew Sullivan, etc. say. However, it’s possible to disagree with people but still have respect for them. Not everybody who is wrong is evil.

The numbers of moderate republicans who abandoned the gop are insignificant what swung the election to Biden.

FTFY.

I see the Pelosi desk guy has been arrested by the FBI.

Tricky situation this – they can’t be allowed to act as they did with impunity but prosecutions (or overly severe prosecutions) risk creating martyrs of them and energising the nutters further.

I was astounded by the average white middle-aged american men and women stealing and looting under the claim that it was their tax that paid for it. It’s the moderate nutters that really scare me – there’s lots of them facilitating the truly unhinged.

I was astounded by the average white middle-aged american men and women stealing and looting under the claim that it was their tax that paid for it. It’s the moderate nutters that really scare me – there’s lots of them facilitating the truly unhinged.

Being white and middle-class doesn’t make you a moderate. Those people are nutters, they just weren’t into the cosplay stuff.

No we arent. There’s not the support for that. Whoever claims the centre ground will win the next election.

I’m sorry but you are wrong

A hard brexit of the type we had now would never have won the referendum,

Yet here we are, the hard right in this country have figured out how to get exactly what they want & with the new foxnews GBnews coming soon, backed by Murdoch, Legatum & hedgfund chums.

We all laugh at the qanon shaman

But this guy Didier Delmar is the founder of moggmentum & appeared as a pro brexit French businessman during the referendum, was interviewed on the bbc
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/brexit-looms-u-k-s-conservative-party-fights-survival-n1031146
Got suspended from twitter for threatening soubry with the fate of Jo Cox (he’s now back & v active on Facebook etc)

And unsurprisingly is a covid denier too, here is at the lockdown protest…

There is a lot to take in here. But on balance, the barbed wire face mask has convinced me. Covid is a scam (Orchestrated by Bill Gates to drive Windows 95 sales).#barbedwiredense pic.twitter.com/f5u0OAeaKC

— Michael Govern Ready (@mikegove12) September 26, 2020

Stop saying it couldn’t happen here

It already is

There’s always TikTok, LinkedIn or Tinder if Donald needs to get noticed.

*Swipes far right.*

*Swipes far right.*

Chapeau

thols2
,
Trump grew the Republican base by 10 million, it’s just that Biden grew the Democrats by about 14 million. Swing voting, as has been mentioned, was irrelevant.

Half of Republican voters (about 35 million) thought it was a good idea to try a beer hall style putsch.

And I’m not saying Andrew Sullivan is evil, just that he is wrong and that being wrong with a pen can be dangerous.

I wonder how much he was paid to write all those articles smearing BLM? Now that he admits he was wrong the ethical thing to do would be to return the money, the moral thing to do would be to donate it to BLM.

“Tricky situation this – they can’t be allowed to act as they did with impunity but prosecutions (or overly severe prosecutions) risk creating martyrs of them and energising the nutters further.”

Slap on the wrist then? That should calm things down.

Trump grew the Republican base by 10 million, it’s just that Biden grew the Democrats by about 14 million. Swing voting, as has been mentioned, was irrelevant.

Biden won the swing states by fairly small margins. In 2018 and 2020, suburban voters (especially women) who had supported Trump in 2016 became disgusted with him and voted for Democratic candidates instead.

Swing voters are twice as valuable as base voters. If you can convince one voter to abandon your opponent and vote for you, that’s a net gain of two votes. If you convince one base voter to vote for you instead of staying home, that only helps you by one vote. This is why purity tests are really, really stupid. You have to be willing to work with and respect people who you don’t always agree with.

thols2
Free Member
The numbers of moderate republicans who abandoned the gop are insignificant what swung the election to Biden.

FTFY.

You fixed nothing, you are absolutely and completely wrong, it was a ground swell of previously disenfranchised voters who won for Biden, or rather voted against the horror of Trump. Trump increased his hold on republicans and increased his turnout, fortunately those opposing him did even better in increasing the turnout.

Trump received the 2nd most votes ever in a presidential election, and I think a percentage of votes from potentially eligible voters that would have won any election for over a centaury. Only Biden in the same election received more. This election was not won by flipping republican voters to dems no matter how many times you claim it.

Slap on the wrist then? That should calm things down.

Not suggesting that at all, as I said they can’t get away with it but there has to be a risk of martyring them. Do you not agree? Or do you throw the book to set an example and just deal with any fallout?

It’s a forum, for discussion…..

My schadenfreud meter has blown out the red zone this past couple of days.

Loving watching these dimbulbs who thought they were going to march on the Capitol as Trump called in the army and in front of the adoring crowds pulled off Nancy Pelosi’s mask. It was George Soros all along!!! “I would have got away with it if it wasn’t for you pesky MAGA kids”. What joy as they are carried aloft on the arms of rapturous supporters as their social media streams are played out on Fox News. With tears in his eyes Tucker Carlson fetes them as the new George Washingtons and Henry Knoxes of the Revolution.

Instead their relatives are asking “why is the FBI calling me?” on Facebook.

A time for healing? That’s like saying you can cure cancer with prayer.

Unless you were an accredited journalist you had no reason to be there and should be tried for insurrection. They are like spectators at a lynching, they may not have set the rope or kicked the stool but they are complicit, legally they call it ‘joint venture’

You cant just let them go home to stroke their guns, they all need to be prosecuted. Otherwise they’ll be back with Generals on their side.

Will that enrage the nutters and lead to more violence in the short term? Quite possibly, but the long term implications of not acting now are unthinkable. Lock them up, Lord knows you’ve got enough prisons, perhaps they could empty some cells by releasing some of the tens of thousands of black people incarcerated for non payment of fines for code violations, traffic stops and other small misdemeanors, real or imagined.

The dems taking the consolatory “across the ailse” approach, while the gop, just plough ahead doing what they want has lead us to this point. A 40 year march to a far right almost fascist state. The approach has already failed. Obamacare is the biggest example of this, they implemented a watered down republican policy to apease the gop, and all the gop did was jump further right and call them commies.

The dems now need to fight for what is right, fight to fix the system and fight for the improvement of peoples lives. Otherwise Trump mk2 wins in 2024.

Theotherjohnv,

Fair enough, I say throw the book at them and deal with the consequences. It’s the least worst option.

It won’t solve the underlying problems, but when you’re faced with two equally unappealing options, the only option left is to do the right thing.

it was a ground swell of previously disenfranchised voters who won for Biden, or rather voted against the horror of Trump.

The problem is that Republicans did better in Congressional races than they did in the Presidential race. A lot of people voted for a GOP House or Senate candidate, but split their vote and voted for Biden instead of Trump. So, what you’re saying is that a huge surge of Democratic base voters decided to vote for GOP Congressional candidates. That makes no sense. What does make sense is that quite a few people who generally vote Republican decided that Trump is unfit for office and chose Biden for President, but voted for the GOP Congressional candidates. So, your base voter theory is nonsense.

The most pressing issue for Biden to deal with is the police.We can argue wether they’ve been infiltrated by fascists or that they were fascist all along but every police chief, union leader and street officer should have their social media accounts checked to see if they have supported the sedition. If they have, then they should be removed from their post at a bear minimum.

Sorry thols2, I think you’re arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. This isn’t about digging down into the meta data, it’s about trying to save the world.

I know you’re probably the best informed on here with regards constitutional issues etc, but sometimes you’ve just got to be a bit more Patrick Kielty and “say what you see’

And from where I’m stood it looks like a man in a Viking hat is the leader of the free world.

The most pressing issue for Biden to deal with is the police.

U.S. police forces are mostly local, every town has its own police force. It’s not the President’s job to manage them. I think there is widespread support for police reforms, but Biden can’t just turn up and fix that by himself. It will need support from state Governors and state legislatures. People seem to assume that the President has sweeping powers to do all sorts of things. In reality, there are massive constraints.

Also, the most pressing issue is the covid epidemic, followed by a recession and unemployment.

Ugandan elections today I think. Where President Musaveni is likely to enter his 35th year in office.

He arrested the opposition leader and his entire team a couple of days back.

As Beau of the fifth column would say:

“It’s just a thought.”

but every police chief, union leader and street officer should have their social media accounts checked

the problem lies very much with the unions.

thols2,

I think I’d ask black Americans what they think the most important issue is first. I’m guessing they’d say something like ” covid is for Christmas, Police racism and brutality is for life.

Whilst I’d concede that Ovid might be the most important issue, for me I’d say that covid is for Christmas too, Tyany can carry with it a life sentence.

” This policemean keeps on kicking me to death”

Response: “But communism”

” This policeman still keeps on kicking me to death ”

Respone:

“But covid”

What does make sense is that quite a few people who generally vote Republican decided that Trump is unfit for office and chose Biden for President, but voted for the GOP Congressional candidates. So, your base voter theory is nonsense.

There was minimal cross party voting. The republicans doing better at local level against the presidential vote is mainly due to the gerrymandering of districts and how that affects votes as they drill down to more localised contests.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/there-wasnt-that-much-split-ticket-voting-in-2020/

You cant just let them go home to stroke their guns, they all need to be prosecuted. Otherwise they’ll be back with Generals on their side.

No they won’t

The military establishment is not supporting Trump or the loons

I personally think that there is a signed version of the 25th ready to go should Trump try to do something stupid. If he doesn’t he gets to play out his term. The critical thing is not to create martyrs or something to rally behind. That way you get a peaceful transition.

Then you arrest them all

I think I’d ask black Americans what they think the most important issue is first.

Biden knows that. It’s the issue that torpedoed Bernie Sanders back in 2016. Problem is, it’s a huge problem that’s integrated into the U.S. political system. It’s not just a matter of police unions, or a few bad apples, or changing a couple of laws. It requires a huge change of culture across all sorts of things.

Many states have “Stand Your Ground” laws, which encourages people to carry guns for protection. That means that cops are constantly afraid because there are guns everywhere. Scared cops make bad decisions, but courts tend to give leeway to cops who say they were afraid for their lives. That creates a culture where cops get used to acting with impunity. The President can’t fix that because it’s a federal system and states are allowed to make their own laws. I do think there is momentum for change, but it will take years or decades to see any real progress. Not because Biden doesn’t care, or Democrats aren’t trying hard enough, but because the U.S. system is designed to make it difficult to change things.

Not because Biden doesn’t care, or Democrats aren’t trying hard enough, but because the U.S. system is designed to make it difficult to change things.

Yet the republicans seem very sucsesful at making the changes they want.