And good on Crowe for getting them such good wages. They’re not getting it out the goodness of TFL’s heart.

Russell Crowe?

50k in london is still a decent wage.

Then you’ll have no problem with the drivers earning a decent wage eh?

With DD here (he’s sounding suspiciously like elfin), imagine if we got the same value for money from elected officials that the RMT members do.

I’ve got no sympathy for the drivers on this particular issue, but in general support their actions- too many people here (I’m guessing largely outside the m25) feel that since they’re not in a position to obtain a pay rise that everybody else should suffer.

Blimey DD – and we wonder why this country is in a mess???

One of the worst things about using the tube is the message that “London Underground is running a good service on all lines.” I’m sure the irony is unintentional but it really grates. Its a bit like the posters going on about TFL not having thick skins. For sure they have rights to be treated correctly by the rest of the public, but when a good service constitutes traveling in dirty trains in cramped conditions, I would like to think that TFL might put the passengers first. How about some posters saying, sorry this really in a very average service at best, but bear with us it might get better one day. For £230k the marketing director ought to be able to do something along those lines.

50k in london is still a decent wage

Yeah I’d agree with you now why isnt everyone else earning it.

Blimey DD – and we wonder why this country is in a mess???

I don’t think this country is in a mess at all. If I did, I wouldn’t live here.

EDIT: But then you go on some tirade about how TFL is treating its customers badly? I can’t see the connection…but I have a feeling you’ll explain it to me.

Looking at that list I reckon every single person on it could just about scrape by if you halved their wages . They still would be on a hell of a whack , for running an underground system that is essential for millions of people .
There is no competition , no real choice ( ok there are buses but they are dump) The roads are clogged up so people use the tube . If you sacked all that list the system would grind on per usual as it has for years .

As for the drivers , well , Until i read the list of pay rewards I thought ‘robbing gits > You dont even need to steer’ . Then I thought about and still think it is slightly high , but pitched to allow negotiation to double time and day off in leiu .

All the upper management will be in Davos or St Morritz , so you cant blame the drivers or their unions for wanting a nice slice of taxpayers hard earned pie for themselves

DD – I’ll be brief. Have no problem paying for a good service or for employees earning a lot for providing one, but……. 😉

You should write to TFL then. Maybe they need to pay their employees more. 😀

😉

The letter will be ready for when the day arrives that TFL provides me a good service. Until then….

OK pay peanuts and get monkeys is fair enough, but pay well and get monkeys doesn’t quite have the same ring to it?!!?

Anyone got any actual background to this- is it just something that they’ve decided they want, or is it a Reaction to Some Other Bulls**t, or is it a historical thing?

FWIW I used to be offered double time plus a day in lieu for boxing day. But I told them to bugger off as I didn’t think it was worth it. It’s only money.

OK pay peanuts and get monkeys is fair enough, but pay well and get monkeys doesn’t quite have the same ring to it?!!?

I’d say cramped and dirty trains is a management problem. Maybe they ought to get back to the shopfloor a bit instead of sitting on their fat arses in whatever corner office they’ve got.

Join your union, demand more, like these people do.

Or, just bitch about the ridiculous salaries of senior management and do nothing.
Then justify your apathy by turning on workers who do demand a fairer pay deal.

Incredible.

OK pay peanuts and get monkeys is fair enough, but pay well and get monkeys doesn’t quite have the same ring to it?!!?

I’m assuming you’re not referring to the drivers then. Aside from their industrial action, and occasional quips over the intercom their contribution to the Underground Experience is largely unseen.

I’d start the blame at management, and work my way up to the government.

Looking at those figures the whole industry needs to have a damn good look at itself. The drivers are paid too much for the job and hours they do but the management are also too handsomely paid so I’m not sure how they can have the audacity to shout too loud about their drivers demands. The only looser in this is the travelling public as all that excessive remuneration either means inflated ticket prices or reduced infrastructure investment. Complacent industry in a virtual blackmail/monopoly position with its paying customer.

They need a mayor (or whoever has the power to act) with balls to overhaul the management and then a public with the stomach to handle the short-term hassle of mass driver walk outs inevitable whilst breaking the union stranglehold and imposing more sensible terms and conditions or bringing in automated trains.

convert

They need a mayor (or whoever has the power to act) with balls to overhaul the management

Its set up deliberatly so the Mayer or any other elected body has no say in it at all

DD agree with you there.

Let them strike, let them throw their toys out of the pram, we oop north dont care less, it has absolutely no effect on us.

He’s worth every **** penny of it and funnily enough, the London Underground workers don’t seem to want to get rid of him do they? If I was a London Underground worker, I’d be delighted to have Bob Crowe fighting my ground for me because he’d be getting me a decent wage in London, where it’s bloody expensive to live, he’d be sticking it to my employers every time they tried to shaft me…again! And lastly, he pisses off people like you hora. That’s worth a few days in lieu in itself.

Indeed 😀
I think it’s worth noting before we put Bob on a pedestal, and for balance allow the Hora to shoot him off it in front of his family, that the strike in question has nothing to do with Bob and the RMT, but is ASLEF. So today’s person of hate (or love) really should be Mick Whelan.

Oh!

😐

To be fair, I heard “strike” and just automatically assumed Crowe had something to do with it. 🙂

Oooooooh…

And WUNUNDRED!

(I never gets a wunundred).

Yeah me too 🙂 , but I decided to give it a quick google after Northwind asked the far too sensible question “Does anyone actually know anything about this?” 😀

Anyway, my defence is that I was only answering hora’s question – and using it as an opportunity to abuse the round-shirking tightarse. And I’m sticking to that. 🙂

I’ve agreed to work on 4th January – getting double time and a day off in lieu. Should cover my strike day last month. I’m local authority, not a train driver though 🙂

Wisepranker – are you not on agenda for change rates? The day in lieu is one of your PH / Al days – the 7.5 hrs is the equivalent of the 60% but I am suprised you are taking it in time not pay. Never heard of that.

Yes, we’re on AFC.
We get 7.5 hours as time in lieu for any PH’s but no extra money.
We definitely don’t get a day in lieu plus 7.5 hours. At least we never have as long as i’ve been working here.

I’m all for earning a fair wage for overtime. However, for me that’s double-time. 4times is disgusting. Sorry that’s not a ‘fair’ wage for a day is it?

Who ends up paying for these particular chaps? The underground users. Have you seen the current prices!

It is time all workers started to shout for better pay and better conditions and more time off instead of taking sh*&e from employers who are only interested in making a quick profit for themselves.

4times is disgusting.

Who says they’re asking for quadruple time ………Transport for London ?

Transport for London also says on their website, quote :

“The Aslef leadership has called the strike action despite the fact that only around 42 per cent of those balloted voted in favour of strike action.”

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/22065.aspx

Do you believe that too ? If it was true that only 42% voted for industrial action then tfl could go to court and have the strike declared illegal. Any further industrial action by Aslef would risk them having their assets sequestrated.

Transport for London are playing games and are engaged in a propaganda exercise. Wake up.

Aslef is simply asking for quality time off for their members, and that any cover be by volunteers who should probably be given given a “substantial incentive”. Otherwise no one is likely to want to do it. If I was offered double time for Boxing Day I would tell them to stuff it.

BTW I note that the Transport for London link quotes Howard Collins, London Underground’s Chief Operating Officer, who according to scu98rkr’s post earns £4,000 a week. I suspect Mr Collins won’t be working on Boxing Day, and will instead be stuffing his face with his family.

Maybe some people should find an alternative means of getting to the Sales on Boxing Day if they are not prepared to make it worthwhile for tube drivers – can’t be that difficult surely ? 💡

.

EDIT : Actually this bit in the tlf link suggests that they are not paying any extra money for Boxing Day :

“The agreement, which specifies that overtime is only paid for unrostered work or for work attracting a higher salary, is once again being ignored by Aslef’s leaders.

The union’s leadership made their claims for extra pay last year”[/b]

So it would appear that Boxing Day is simply “rostered work” on which no overtime is paid. I would go on strike over that.

So it would appear that Boxing Day is simply “rostered work” on which no overtime is paid. I would go on strike over that.

If my memory serves me right they negotiated a change to their T&Cs back in the 90’s that meant a very significant hike in their basic in return for working bank holidays etc as normal days. I.E. the “inconvenience” of working on bank holidays etc is built into their more than generous basic pay. I don’t suppose they are planning on giving that back when they are asking for the triple time plus day in lieu are they? A bit of a case of having their cake and eating it me thinks!

when they are asking for the triple time plus day in lieu

Do you believe everything tfl tells you ?

Would you believe me if I told you that tfl’s chairman got elected with only a quarter of the votes ?

’cause that’s true you know.

Do you believe everything tfl tells you ?

OK, if untrue I’d imagine the union must be publicising what they want somewhere, I guess the BBC and other agencies haven’t bothered to pick that up….

That’s missing the point though – they negotiated a higher basic wage to work bank holidays as rostered days – they are already getting paid for working on bank holidays etc as part of their basic wage. They now want to be paid for it again. Nothing wrong with asking I guess but don’t be surprised when you are told no.

OK, if untrue I’d imagine the union must be publicising what they want somewhere

Have you tried their website ?

.

That’s missing the point though – they negotiated a higher basic wage to work bank holidays as rostered days – they are already getting paid for working on bank holidays etc as part of their basic wage.

Actually maybe we are now getting to the point – it would appear that in fact they are not getting any extra pay for Boxing Day. Which isn’t exactly how this thread started off. It’s funny what you find when you start digging beneath the bullshit.

No, but to be fair I haven’t tried the tfl one either – I really don’t care that much, what with having my own life n’all.

I really don’t care that much,

But enough to comment ?

it would appear that in fact they are not getting any extra pay for Boxing Day.

Sorry, don’t follow. I guess it’s down to interpretation. You interpret it as no extra as in no extra line in the January pay packet specifically mentioning boxing day 2011. I remember the original negotiation (my then GF was in London in a shared house with a driver, so I had a mild interest at the time) and think of them as being paid a very good wage with the “extra” built in to compensate for working unsociable hours/days.

the “extra” built in to compensate for working unsociable hours/days.

So no extra for Boxing Day then.

So no extra for Boxing Day then.

That’s your interpretation of them getting paid extra to work unsociable hours/days – which presumably includes Boxing Day?

Yes extra.

So you are a bit thick! I’d always thought it but been too polite to say! Read what I typed again, you’ll get it eventually.

Just for you (I felt guilty) I read the aslef website – “The union says its members may need ‘substantial incentives’ to volunteer.” Well, that’s not really denying the tfl’s claim is it!

Read what I typed again

I just did. And you say that they don’t get any extra whether they work Boxing Day or not.

Thanks for pointing that out.

or…. they get paid it every year, even the years they are at home with their feet up – bonustastic!

Well hora is campaigning for them to get double time for Boxing Day – what do you think of that ?

I think it sounds like a reasonable suggestion.

Lower wages for management sounds like a good idea too – do you think that suggestion would go down well with the travelling public ?