TRP Spyre Dual vs Hydraulics…

I’m having a bike built up with a 105 group, and the default brake is the TRP Spyre C.  The bike will be winter/gravel and used for Z1/2 winter road riding in the main.

I’ve been sitting here thinking, should I ask them to upgrade to 105 Hydro’s?   Its going to cost me £250 I didn’t really want to spend.   I’m good with the Cable disc adjustment / pad wear issue, and just wondering if its kind of a fools errand to stick with cable disks?

I have TRP spyre on my gravel bike, they are a bit shit to be honest.

I’ve owned both. and whilst the TRPs are the best of the bunch for cable, the different with hydro is night and day.  modulation, power, fit and forget etc.  all my drop bar disc bikes are hydro and I would never go back.

Personally I’d say it’s worth the money.   I have a CX which came with BB5s, and I later bought a road bike with 105 hydros. The 105s are FAR nicer, and lead me to “upgrade” the CX to Spyres. They weren’t noticeably any better than the BB5s in the long run, and have now been replace by a Hope V-Twin with X2 calipers. That’s very good, but still not as good as the 105 hydros.

One aspect to consider is the position of the brake caliper. On my CX, the caliper is mounted between the chainstay and the seatstay, so all the crap runs nicely down the inner brake cable and into the outer cable. It means the cable needs to be changed regularly. If you have a brake mounted on top of the seatstay, then this may be less of an issue

I upgraded the ‘what came with bike’ calipers on my CX bike to spyres and while they are better than what I had, they are not ’emergency stop’ good, more ‘scrub off some speed and find a gap’ good. I will upgrading to full hydraulics when the drivetrain needs replacing.

also check whever you are getting the older rs505 or newer rs7020. Both work fine but the older rs505 series are a bit ugly and bulky.

I’ve never owned a bike with cable/mechanical disc brakes and I never plan to, to be honest I cannot believe that they and “hybrid” hydraulics are still being fitted to bikes these days.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, if my old commuter Tricross Singlecross had had hydraulic brakes, I would almost certainly still have a full complement of teeth and no titanium in my upper jaw (plus more dexterity in my right hand).

I wouldn’t want the agro of constantly having to tweak cable disc brakes, with full hydraulics you normally just have to check the pads for wear, I love the BR505s on my Cube.

For that kind of riding they’re fine.

I have them on my gravel bike with compressionless housing, SwissStop pads, and XT rotors. When I try to bomb down on singletrack, where really I should be on an MTB, I wish I  had more stopping power. But everywhere else they’re fine.

If you ride in harsh conditions you might also need to strip and clean them every few months. These things have bearings, they’re not as simple and sealed as a hydro.

At the end of the day, you can buy them straight from Taiwan on eBay for 65 quid including discs, so don’t expect huge things from them. But they’re not bad either. They’re like an awesome rim brake that work better in wet conditions than rim brakes. But just because they’re discs doesn’t mean they’re as good as a hydro. Unless you compare them to let’s say the cheapest Shimano brake you can buy.

Hydros will be better in every regard. It’s your 250 quid, I usually do the math how many hours do I need to work for a certain part vs how much it will improve my riding experience.

Go hydro, I have Spyre C on my CX bike, once they get silt internally they’re nigh on impossible to service bar squirting some WD40 in. The extra cash will be worth it.

Go hydro, I have Spyre C on my CX bike, once they get silt internally they’re nigh on impossible to service bar squirting some WD40 in. The extra cash will be worth it.

I vote for hydro too but Spyres are super easy to strip down. But then I know you shouldn’t need to strip them down in the first place.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-trp-spyre-rebuild-guide/

I’ve gone from hydraulics to Spyres on my commuter, as the hydraulics were getting sticky pistons and seal leaks after a winter of getting blasted with salt and shite. On that bike, reliability and minimal maintenance trumped performance. on CX which isn’t used so much on the road I’d go for the 105s as they are so much better at actually stopping the bike.

I quite like my Spyres but they do need setting up properly, which means compressionless cabe outer, careful pad choice and understanding how the calipers/pistons work – I ended up using a 180mm front rotor on my cross bike and they’re actually pretty good. That said, if I was buying a new bike and had the option, I’d go hydraulic I think. But you can get Spyres to work reasonably well.

Hmmm.

Any issue of changing them later?  is it as simple as changing/cable the levers and re taping the bars?    I’m thinking I might run the Spyres this winter then upgrade next summer.

In a typical ‘not really answering the question you asked’ fashion, I have BB7 calipers on my roady commuter/tourer on an otherwise 105 (5700) groupset. As is the case with BB7s (and wth the usual caveat of using good compressionless outer) they’ve been absolutely faultless and dependable, whether commuting through winter crap or touring with a couple of panniers and some steep hills. All I’ve done with them is wind the pads in occasionally.

There’s no way I could believe that 105 hydros could be £250’s worth of ‘better’.

Changing for what? changing calipers is easy as you say. If you want to go full hydro then you’ll need new levers, they’re STI units

nettles, what frame are you running them on? I have BB7s on the tandem, they’re fine (BETTER than the Avid Codes they replaced, possibly), but the rear caliper is on the seatstay…

Hmmm.

Any issue of changing them later?  is it as simple as changing/cable the levers and re taping the bars?    I’m thinking I might run the Spyres this winter then upgrade next summer.

Changing is easy but not cheap. I can’t find too much R7000 stuff yet but it’s gonna cost more than 250 quid.

https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-105-R7000-Disc-Brake-Set-Shift-Brakelever-ST-R7020-Br-R7070-Flat-Mount-Brake-Caliper-with-Brakehose-and-Shift-Cable-black

I have BB7 calipers on my roady commuter/tourer

There’s no way I could believe that 105 hydros could be £250’s worth of ‘better’.

The key word here is roady. They can be £500 worth of better, if you go offroad. Which you can do on a gravel bike. 🙂 So depends what you use your bike for.

The key word here is roady. They can be £500 worth of better, if you go offroad.

I also have BB7s on my MTB, but then I’m mainly a bridleway bimbler. I’ve also used them on my old gravel bike (back when they were called CX bikes 😉 ). I’ll accept (grudgingly) that hydros can be better for full gnarlycore MTBing.

For road and ‘gravel’, like he’s talking about using them for, I don’t think hydros are worth the extra outlay, I honestly don’t know what advantage/improvement in functionality you’re buying for your £250.

I’m still running BB7s on my tourer/cross/gravel Amazon. They’re 8 years old now. I was changing the cables recently and upgraded to the Jagwire compressionless set. It’s definitely made a small improvement, not that I ever felt I had a problem.

However….. caught by the attraction of new, shiny stuff I’m thinking of a complete group set replacement to 2×11 and I’d almost definitely go hydro at that point.

For road and ‘gravel’, like he’s talking about using them for, I don’t think hydros are worth the extra outlay,

Yeah I guess it depends on your definition of gravel. To me these are do it all bikes, and sometimes to get to the gravel part I have to climb a hill first then bomb down on singletrack. There I would really appreciate hydros, especially because on 43mm tyres a sudden rock garden after a blind corner can mean death.

I’d go for the 105 now rather than later, As much as anything because otherwise you’ll end up with a perfectly good set of brakes and sti levers sitting in your spares box when you do upgrade. This will lead to the inevitable I need to do something with these which will lead to the decision to build something up which you don’t really need and will cost you an absolutely guaranteed minimum og £250.01 despite the fact that you think you have everything lying about to build it. 🙂

nbt – thats what I meant, changing the STI’s.

do you have internal cable routing? It would be a PITA to buy a new set of sti levers plus calipers and refit. even if it is external you will prob have to shorten brake hoses. rebleed etc. AND it will be way more expensive than £250 all in.

There I would really appreciate hydros, especially because on 43mm tyres coming to a sudden rock garden after a corner can mean death.

But hydros are no stoppier than (decent) cable discs, and the limit of stoppyness will always be determined by tyre grip anyway.

There’s a common misconception that cable discs are rubbish, whereas decent ones, like BB7s, really aren’t, they’re really very good. I think the problem is that there are quite a few cheaper cable discs that are basically crap, and these taint the decent ones by association, whereas most hydro brakes are at least half-decent.

I’d stick with the Spyres, unless you ACTUALLY intend riding your gravel bike like an MTB. I get the arguments about later braking and better modulation, but I was riding in snow and ice last winter and unless you’re trying to shave seconds off your descent times, are you really going to be late braking into the corners as if you were racing DH?

Seriously, there must be dozens of things you could better spend that £250 on for a winter Z1/Z2 bike than upgrading to hydros, posh waterproofs, really good mudguards, fancy tyres, good overshoes, blah blah blah. I’ve ridden through the winter now with TRPs which were fine apart from the squealing in the wet, and with rim brakes which were equally fine, except didn’t squeal.

I totally get that hydro brakes are lovely things, but for a road bike the benefits of hydro over cable are waaaaay down my list of priorities. Plus, a full set of TRPs work out lighter than a full set of 105 hydros last I checked…

Ignore hollyboni, he/she is off the end of the ‘extreme-gravel’ spectrum 😉

I honestly don’t know what advantage/improvement in functionality you’re buying for your £250.

I had BB5s on my cross/gravel bike originally (OK), replaced them with Hope V-Twins (better) and last week replaced those with full-hydro RX4s. They are streets ahead, not only for proper off-road, but the main advantage is they require very little pressure so I can get full braking power very easily from the hoods without needing a death-grip on the bars. This is safer, allows better control, and is much less fatiguing after a long day. Unquestionably better, whether it’s “worth it” or VFM is up to you.

But hydros are no stoppier than (decent) cable discs, and the limit of stoppyness will always be determined by tyre grip anyway.

As I said, I have TRP Spyres on my bike, with compressionless housing, SwissStop pads, and XT rotors. What’s not decent about this setup, can you upgrade a cable disc any further? I don’t think so.

I run out of grip at the back, at the front I simply run out of braking power.

I know people some say Spyres are better than BB7s, and some people say BB7s are better than Spyres, don’t want to get into that. Both of them are one of the best cable discs you can get right now, and neither of them are as powerful as a decent hydro.

Anyways, this argument is only going on in the gravel/road world really, everyone has been on hydros in the MTB world because they’re simply better. You might be fine with cable discs, but that doesn’t mean they’re as powerful as any decent hydro.

You can get a pair of Shimano MT200s for €40, these suck for sure tho. I’ve tried the older version and I think they were worse than my Spyres.

I had a Genesis Croix De Fer with mechanical disc, no stopping power what so ever, useless. Constant fettling needed to get it to slow me down on descents. Swapped to TRP Spryes, slightly improved, but again constant fettling. Didnt offer much confidence to be honest.

Swapped to Hydraulics, same rides, but massive difference in performance. Fit and forget.

I actually thought for gravel and cross rides they were OK, but I didn’t do anything with extreme down hills or rock gardens. It was road where I had more issues, coming down steep descents to a T junction, I really want to stop at the bottom! I know I can with hydraulics, with TRP it was more a case of praying nothing was going to be coming the other way

13thfloormonk – appreciated, thats pretty much exactly the kind of riding I’ll do.   In reality the only bit of gravel I’ll do is dawn/evening recovery ride circuits in the local park / canal paths.

The majority of the bikes use will be winter riding at a low pace.  Its very my my “second’ bike – I have a decent road bike with carbon 50’s and proper rim brakes for the Summer, and MTB’s for everything else 🙂

And thats really why I’m asking the question – compared to road rim brakes, will the TRP’s be a direct replacement or better negating a £250 extra spend to hydros for the above type of riding?

everyone has been on hydros in the MTB world because they’re simply better

I’m not 🙂

Anyway, for this scenario, what 13thfloormonk said.

(plus, fwiw, I’ve had far more hassle from the hydro discs I’ve owned in the past, Hope and XT, than the numerous sets of BB7s I’ve had. This is the main reason, if I’m honest, that I’ve been put off hydros, as they have me more grief, and cost more money, for no appreciable improvement in functionality. I realise that I’m in the minority there though)

Anyways, this argument is only going on in the gravel/road world really, everyone has been on hydros in the MTB world because they’re simply better. You might be fine with cable discs, but that doesn’t mean they’re as powerful as any decent hydro.

I think ultimately the question is “Does Kryton57 want to pay £250 for that extra power”.

It’s a no brainer in MTB, but for gravel and road, every person’s experience will be different. I have no need for the extra power which is why I’d stick to rim brakes if I could and save the money/weight. (shame there’s so few frames left that will take them…).#

Edit: actually now I think about it I’ve done a few laps of my local trail centre with 35c CX tyres and my Spyres, only problem caused was loss of grip through the tyres, not lack of power.

And thats really why I’m asking the question – compared to road rim brakes, will the TRP’s be a direct replacement or better negating a £250 extra spend to hydros for the above type of riding?

For that kind of riding the Spyres are fine. If you’re fine with your road bike with rim brakes, then you’ll be fine with the Spyres too. Make sure to get better pads tho because the stock ones evaporate when they meet with water. I recommend SwissStop. Also make sure to strip them down every few months, and right when you get them give the pad adjustment screws a Loctite bath or they will go out of adjustment regularly.

They’re as good or better than the best road rim brakes IMO, but again other than being more powerful hydros are set and forget and there are no bearings to seize or pad adjustment screws to go out of adjustment.

The best would be of course to test a bike with Spyres and hydros if you can.

Bookmarked for the rebuild guide. Thanks

I have the worst cable disk brakes going, promax render that came on my caad x. A quick search of the web tells you how bad they are. Thing is I use them on road and gravel and whilst clearly a bit shit, i dont feel unsafe riding them. You just plan abit ahead.

Im planning to upgrade them to some spires when I get round to it as they are apparently significantly better, but I have no desire to upgrade to hydraulic, simply as I dont need the same stopping power I have on my mtb. And if I did I Couldn’t use it anyway due to lack of tyre grip

thanks holliboni.   I’ll stick with the Spyres then.

One plus for the Spyres is they can’t dribble hydro fluid out invisibly over a period of weeks causing much head scratching and replacing of pads, but on the whole I prefer the Ultergras.

I’ve no doubt that hydraulics would be better but am using the shimano cable disks on my crosser and they’ve been absolutely fine for roadcross and gravelway riding. Good pads and compressionless outers are crucial though, I’d recommend the jagwire cables. <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Swapping for me currently would mean full transmission change to 11 speed and new wheels too so I’m sticking with cables.</span>

That said, if I was getting a new bike built then I’d probably look around for the extra £250 and go hydraulic from the outset if possible,

Have you considered TRP HY-RD brakes . Reviews seem to think they are a lot better than Spyres etc .

there’s the Juin Tech R1 as well.

There’s nothing wrong with decent quality cable disks like Spyres and BB7s.

However if you want crap cable brakes, be it canti, V-brake, or disk, attach crap cable outers and flexy levers and you can get a really lousy brake. It’s an indictment of the mechanical prowess of whoever specced the cable outer and fitted it, rather than of the brake.

Hydro or cable, it’s about transmitting the force from your hand to the calliper.

If you introduce elements that suck up some of that force, eg cable outer that compresses, levers that flex, air in the hydraulics, or hose that slightly expands, then the brake is not going to receive all of the force.

Setting up a cable brake properly is no more faff than setting up a hydraulic system where you have to buy the hose separately, attach the hose, introduce the fluid, and then bleed the brakes.

If you want more stopping power, increase your disk size – it’s cheaper than new brakes.

BTW I could do with another set of Spyres. If anyone has a set they really hate, I’ll give you a fiver for them. 🙂

If you want more stopping power, increase your disk size – it’s cheaper than new brakes.

Sadly that’s not always physically possible on gravel/road bikes because of fork/frame design. Especially on road where some come with 140 rotors.

If I would go with a 180 instead of 160 on my gravel bike the discs would foul the forks.