Tour de France 2015 – It's over and it's time to look back thread.

Ups:
Froome and Quintana apparent appreciation of each others efforts – nice to see the handshakes and smiles.
Cummings stage win.
Jalbert getting really uncomfortable with some less than subtle questioning on his doping background.

Downs:
A couple more ‘sensible’ sprint stages i.e. not up a 1 in 5 for the last 200m.
Don’t think Millar added much to the ITV4 coverage.
Valverde.

Can’t decide if the TdF organisers are trying too hard with the stages. Almost designing stages for people to crash out isn’t my idea of racing.

Can’t decide if the TdF organisers are trying too hard with the stages. Almost designing stages for people to crash out isn’t my idea of racing.

Part of the problem is that a lot of the “good” mountains don’t have good roads to get up them. There are some exception but routes being what they are you’re limited in what you can do if you want to get from A to B via mountain X without cutting the mountains out entirely. I’ve ridden some spectacularly smooth mountain roads in France and some that are incredibly bad. My cousin’s bf crashed relatively slowly coming down one in the Pyrenees where they live and the gravel/pebble/rock rash was spectacular and took about 4 months to heal properly.

How can I get to see this “Matt Rendell doorstepping Jalabert was gold.”

Please.

Found it everythings on youtube, he he he Jalabert the coward.

Thanks for your help.

mt – ITV player the relevant highlights programme (but cant remember which one) – it was gold though 😀

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/video-itv-reporter-matt-rendell-confronts-laurent-jalabert-over-froome-comments

Can’t decide if the TdF organisers are trying too hard with the stages. Almost designing stages for people to crash out isn’t my idea of racing.

I’m not sure which stages you mean but I can’t say I saw this. The big crashes were, as ever, high speed peloton wheel touches, usually on utterly innocuous bits of roads. Barguil/Thomas was down to bad riding, similarly Pinot’s descent spill. Which roads were you thinking of?

Atlaz – I was thinking more about the pave cobbled sections actually. Think they are fine for the Hell of the North – a one day race where the jobs up if you go down. Potentially ending (as it did with Froome last year) the entire three weeks is pretty harsh. Yes, I know, you can crash/get taken out anytime and the whole race is a process of attrition. Tricky I suppose, they know better than me, but everything this year felt slightly ‘manipulated’ which was probably more for the benefit of everyone BUT Sky.

How can I get to see this “Matt Rendell doorstepping Jalabert was gold.”

Please.

having watched the tour for many years, I say well done Cristian Prudhomme and Theirry Gouvenou for creating such a storming course

I’m also going to say well done to Nibali for refusing to lie down and riding himself back into some form during the tour, I was happy to see him bag a stage

(thanks also to clenbutador for proving me right about doing giro/tour a daft idea, ha ha)

Atlaz – I was thinking more about the pave cobbled sections actually. Think they are fine for the Hell of the North – a one day race where the jobs up if you go down. Potentially ending (as it did with Froome last year) the entire three weeks is pretty harsh.

Think it was more the very cold and wet conditions last year that was Froome’s undoing. I’m pretty sure he actually abandoned with his fractured wrists just before reaching the cobbles.

Like that doorstepping video!

Potentially ending (as it did with Froome last year) the entire three weeks is pretty harsh.

Froome didn’t ride any of the cobbles last year.

Jens Voigt was pretty cool – if a bit unhinged.

Jens Voigt was pretty cool – if a bit unhinged.

As it was in cycling, so it is with his commentary. 🙂

I like Liggett and Sherwin, they’ve kind of the voice of cycling for me and have been for years. Think I only ever hear them on the Tour, and the whole production seems a bit more polished than the Eurosport stuff. That’s not to knock Eurosport (and god bless them for covering as much as they do) but the TdF coverage is just a notch above.

Think it was more the very cold and wet conditions last year that was Froome’s undoing. I’m pretty sure he actually abandoned with his fractured wrists just before reaching the cobbles.

^that

Cancallara was done for in a crash at 60km/h on a straight road
Tony Martin clipped the wheel of the guy in front of him at 20km/h on a hill.

Neither was down to the course. The cobble stages the last years have been fairly free of crashes and retirements because the riders are expecting the danger. It’s the innocuous ones that have retired riders this year

ITV4 have far and away the best team – between them Matt Rendell, Ned Boulting, David Millar, Gary Imlach and Chris Boardman all share a similar sense of humour and they’re all incredibly experienced and knowledgeable. The little extras like the Boulting/Boardman FAQs are always excellent.

It’s just a shame it then switches to Liggett and Sherwen for the commentary but as mentioned above, they’re doing it for various feeds (including the USA) and ITV just take that footage.

Good race this year but brutally tough, probably one of the hilliest in recent years.
It did need more sprint stages though.

+1 great tour, great route, good mix of stages including influential downhills.

ITV4 coverage is great but, like many, I can’t stand Liggett&Sherwen any more. All the other presenters are top notch though (Boardman, Millar and Imlach).

As an actual “French people” I feel ashamed for the human race, not France. Idiots exist in all countries (and we know that one of the idiots spitting at Froome was likely to be Dutch) and I will put odds on that if it had been a non-British team leading the GC with their non-British GC leader, the British press would hardly have been a serene haven of tranquility. Froome was mauled in the British press over the spat with Wiggins (caused partly by their better halves then prolonged by Wiggins refusing to pay Froome his share of the winnings).

Apologies for my ambiguous statement. I didn’t mean to imply that it was all French people hurling abuse and saliva but it was largely the French press irresponsibly whipping up the anti-Sky sentiment with no evidence whatsoever. On top of that the French authorities seem to be doing little or nothing to address the problem. I may be wrong here as I am in Britain and do not have access to the French media so it would be nice to know if something is being done and the whole sorry episode won’t be repeated again next year.

Incidentally I don’t have any respect for the British media either so it’s not just a French thing so I agree on your point about that as well. You only have to see how frezied the British press get when the World Cup comes around to witness that (especially when England play Germany).

Loved the first week, thought it was fantastic. Great racing despite the horrid crashes.

And for the rest of the tour loved each stage as a stand alone race but thought the GC was lacking.

Maybe it was because Sky/Froome were so good but was sad not to see more from the other “big three” … Contador too tired from Giro and Quint/Nibs leaving it far too late.

Also as much as Alpe D’heuz being on the last day could have been epic…. it seemed as if the other high mountains were put too much in its shade by this and as such became something less … ???

But loads of heros … G, Ten Dem, Martin, Cummins and of course Froome to name just five

To be fair I spotted what I assumed was French police bike riding alongside Froome pretty much constantly once it got a bit hairy, I’ve not noticed this before so I’m not sure whether it’s a bit on confirmation bias styleee going on.

ITV just take that footage.

Really bloody wish they’d just take the footage, they should insert their own commentary. Miller and Boulting were excellent in the Dauphene.

Froome and Quintana’s respectful rivalry – no need for bitching, personal attacks, etc, just knocking seven shade of shit out of eachother every day.

Very much this.

Loved the way Valverde attacked, and Nibali for never giving up on what was pretty hopeless.

Where was Bertie?

Another thing that occurred to me reading a lot posts on here and other forums is how people seem to overlook Froome’s sustained effort in the race. Comparing stages where Froome and Quintana gained or lost time to each other we have:

Stage Time GC
1 0:11 0:11
2 1:28 1:39
3 0:17 1:56
9 0:03 1:59
10 1:10 3:09
14 0:01 3:10
19 -0:32 2:38
20 -0:46 1:12

(Sorry about the formatting, I can’t work out how to do lists on here)

There are obviously a lot of ifs, buts and maybes in a Tour like this but what can’t be argued is that Froome took all the time out of Quintana on one stage and then just sat back and defended. What it came down to in the end was that Froome just wanted it more than Quintana and was prepared to fight for every second, even when he was losing time on the last two stages.

Who was lying motionless on the road yesterday with about a mile to go, that looked nasty. Hope they got over the line.

That was Devolder (Trek). I heard he was OK but lying motionless to avoid being smashed into by the charging peleton.

Thought this was quite interesting, though obviously one sided, from Oleg Tinkoff:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/oleg-tinkov/oleg-tinkov-chapeau-to-team-sky-but-theyre-going-to-kill-the-business

I’m not afraid to say that Team Sky deserved to win the Tour with the Froominator, that’s clear to see and we can only say ‘chapeau’ as they say in France. However I’ve got to point out that their strength might not be good for the sport.

If I could tell you who they are about to sign for 2016, you’d realise that they’re going to kill the business.

Their strength in not actually the money, as other people have said. We have similar budgets; we spend 27 million Euro, while they have about 33 million Euro. The fundamental difference between Team Sky and other teams is that they have a long-term project. They’ve got a minimum of a five-year plan, if not even ten years thanks to a commitment from Murdoch’s empire.

The thing Dave Brailsford is doing so well is planning for the future. He’s investing in new riders but also looking for new technology that will help his team. Most team, including us, live almost year to year. When you have a short-term project, you don’t invest for the future, you don’t invest in young rider who might not win for a few years. It’s all about survival. It would be the same in the business world. There’s no chance for a team with a one-year plan to fight against another that can plan for five or ten years ahead.

The only thing that will stop Team Sky dominating the sport for years to come is if we change the business model of the sport and that’s what I’m trying to do. We need more income for the teams. At the moment there’s a clear chance that the Europcar team will disappear at the end of the season. I’ve heard that BMC is thinking of stopping and even Katusha is considering its future in the peloton.

Did you see the womans race? The amount of bodies on the floor at some points reminded me of the D-day landings, or the Grand National.

Did you see the womans race? The amount of bodies on the floor at some points reminded me of the D-day landings, or the Grand National.

Yep.
Total carnage! 😮

If I could tell you who they are about to sign for 2016, you’d realise that they’re going to kill the business.

Anybody with any suggestions about who they’re signing?

At least any doubts about whether the French really do hate us with a passion, or not, have been firmly dispelled this last few weeks. All this garbage about doping was just a smokescreen used by anglophobic media and commentators to incite and froth up the anglophobic French idiots, giving them the green light to openly hate in public.
They hate the fact that English is now the predominant language in the peloton, when 20 years ago nobody but one or two riders spoke English. Many of them think that only the classic tour countries should compete (or be allowed to win), But the vast majority of haters, just hate because it’s the Brits winning their race.

At least a spectator at the end, when interviewed on telly, had the decency to say it how it is, rather than pretending other spurious reasons.

Anybody with any suggestions about who they’re signing?

Only one I can recall hearing about is Kwiatkowski.

Kwiatkowski, Landa from Astana has been talked about as well.

Here are some of the names that are regularly getting mentioned as Sky signings for next season.

Alex Peters, Gianni Moscon, Tao Geoghegan-Hart, Michal Kwiatkowski, Michal Golas, Mikel Landa, Benat Intxausti, Ion Izagirre and Gorka Izagirre.

Lots of people seem to think that most of these guys will be going to Sky next season which will mean lots of riders leaving. As far as I know Porte is the only rider to make it public he is moving on but lots of Sky riders are out of contract so it is possible they could make that many changes.

These too.[/url] Would make for a pretty impressive team.

Oleg is right there.

To kill the business, I can only really think of Quintana – Sky could then seriously try and win all three Grand Tours in a year.

AC is too old and tainted, Nibali is good but not that good so who else?

The various names above would potentially build a very strong team but that’s hardly going to kill the business.

Hyperbole then unless it is Quintana IMO.

Am I missing something or is there something wrong with having a long term plan? 😕

I thought the tour was brilliant this year. Great team work by Sky and Movistar, Sagan was brilliant again and the fact he was ever the bridesmaid just made me shout all the more at the telly. ITV4, as others have said brilliant pundits but could do with loosing Phil & Paul.

Am I missing something or is there something wrong with having a long term plan?

I think he was paying them a compliment – in his own backhanded way – but saying that unless the other teams work hard to become more professional then they’ll struggle to compete.

It’s a bit melodramatic to predict the demise of the sport but the financing and management of the world tour teams does seem absurdly naive sometimes.

Am I missing something or is there something wrong with having a long term plan?

Nothing at all but cycling has always been a very short-term sport, teams forming and folding, sponsors coming and going, riders never sure from one year to the next if they have a job.

It’s not good for long-term sustainability and the market itself is a pretty rubbish business model. Cyclist Magazine ran a really good article a few months ago about the “house of cards” nature of it all and how teams very rarely actually make any money.

Team GB (and by extension, Team Sky) have always been good at the long-term view – look at “Project Rainbow”, the 3-year plan to get Cav a rainbow jersey. They knew the course, they knew the riders they were likely to have and staked it all on that. Fortunately, everything aligned on the day. Team GB do the same with the track cycling at the Olympics.

As usual though, Sky are a bit ahead of the curve in what they want as structure and what the sport currently has as structure.

Oleg only cares about Oleg. He is just using the Sky situation to try to push for changes that would benefit him. If the changes he wants would benefit the sport as whole longterm or not I don’t know.
I do find it strange how he and Vaughters point to things like the NFL and NBA as the way to go. While they do have some good aspects anyone that knows a little bit about what goes on in the NFL or the NBA or cares to do a bit of research will see that the way that they are run is far from perfect.

Isn’t that though why the commercial body (what Vaugters and Tinkoff want changed) and the governing body (UCI plus indirectly WADA, etc) need to be separate?

It’s when they’re not that you get problems (see the UCI until very recently) due to the conflict of interest

It’s a bit melodramatic to predict the demise of the sport

Cycling could be “the next big thing” though, and I’ve heard the noises off that suggest there needs to be a “league” where there are defined events that riders all do. The argument goes that to break-through cycling needs to be understandable by the common man, and all the different races with different riders and teams competing in them, and some riders choosing not to compete in some tours or single day races or smaller tours isn’t sustainable.

However the likes of Sky and Murdoch can have HUGE influence over these sorts of things…and long term plans and investments…