Tour de France 2015 – It's over and it's time to look back thread.

I have always thought it stupid that they don’t challenge the Yellow jersey on the last day and it showed perfectly yesterday. With Froome having to stop and change his bike when the bag got caught in his rear wheel, this could have been a perfect to produce a really chase and thrilling end stage.

It makes sense to me – they’ve been trying to smash each other for 3 weeks. Having the last stage as a bit of celebration and parade is a really nice thing. I’d hate to see the leader (whoever it is) lose on the last day because of a bag getting stuck in the wheel.

I have always thought it stupid that they don’t challenge the Yellow jersey on the last day and it showed perfectly yesterday. With Froome having to stop and change his bike when the bag got caught in his rear wheel, this could have been a perfect to produce a really chase and thrilling end stage.

You’d rather a three week tour was decided by litter than by tactics?

Sagan, pretty much in a class of his own, whilst in most of the breaks and out front hoovering up points, he has this licked and licked good. Try as they all might Sagan is a super class rider with a superb sense of humour and tactical brain to leave some experienced CG riders at a loss.

While I agree with most of this, the bit I’m far from convinced by is the “tactical brain” bit. I know I was in a minority when I voiced this on one the early stage threads, but imho it’s the racecraft that has led him to so many second places on stages that, if it was purely down to legs, he could have won.

The epitome for me was one day when he was ideally situated in a successful break, someone went off the front within the last km or so, Sagan sat up and looked round his little group, seeing who was going to lead the chase down, eventually realising that the answer was “nobody, if you want him you’re gonna have to chase him yourself Peter” and then off he goes, far too late, and does another fabulous sprint finish into second place iirc.

I’m also struck by the number of post-stage interviews where Sagan himself seemed to acknowledge that the principal reason he’d failed to win yet another stage he was more than capable of taking was that he’d gone at the wrong moment / not gone at the moment he should have.

To be fair, though, he did win the jersey, so hardly an unsuccessful tour. I’m not at all clear whether that is the measure of success he was looking for – is he satisfied with green or would be more / less happy if he’s taken a stage or two, but not won green?

Dunno, given that he came in saying he was there to ride for Bertie and any points or stages he picked up along the way would be a bonus, he may not even know the answer to that one himself. It seemed as though he ended up with a lot more freedom that he’d expected to, since Bertie never really put himself into many positions where Sagan (and the rest) could do much for him?

For such an acclaimed rider who everyone seems to rate so highly, perhaps his biggest tactical blunder was contractual, in putting himself into a team where at worst he’d be riding for someone else, and at best his team mates wouldn’t be riding for him due to other team priorities. Reminds me a lot of Cavendish’s situation at Team Sky in 2012, where he might have taken a lot more if the team had been more available to him than they were.

@woody74
Team Sky’s tactics are no different from other teams trying to protect the yellow jersey (see CSC/Saxo, Astana, US Postal, Once, et al) the only difference is the implementation which sky have done very well.
What Sky has brought about is teams having to be clever how they attack it which has brought about some brilliant racing. Movistar riding off as a team last year, attacks on the first climbs to break the sky train etc.
The stages are now contested from the beginning rather than waiting for the final climb

and it showed perfectly yesterday

Really? Clearly watching different footage to me.

You could have repeated that stage a 1000 times and barring accident the GC lead would not have changed hands irrespective of any attack at any time by any of the GC contenders.

edlong – I’m sure he’s crying non-stop all the way to the bank 😉 That’s why he signed for Tikoff afterall…

the only difference is the implementation which sky have done very well.

In some respects the thing which has been most notable this tour is how disorganised the other teams have been by comparison. It’s crazy how little protection Quintana and Contador had at times.

Personally I think it was fair of Nibbles to attack Froome when he did – there’s little enough attacking as it is. Ridden through some sticky tar and picked up a stone – trying looking at the road ahead and not at your stem ! Likewise with punctures and mechanicals – how much of that is bad luck, how much down to trying to get marginal gains through your equipment? OK it’s different if spectators or vandals are involved.

However greasy cobbles on the Champs is not the place to decide the race, so neutralizing it yesterday was a reasonable call.

I really don’t understand why the other teams are struggling with Sky so much. Its not like they have a whole team packed with the best riders

I thought this years Sky team was the strongest they had fielded, which meant they could both keep high pace at the start and then have a number of riders to rotate as cover for Froome in the climbs.

Yeah. I’m probably starting to wish Sagan won more stages.
I feel he’s a good prospect for the future. But I also feels he needs a different team structure around him.

Who knows?

For such an acclaimed rider who everyone seems to rate so highly, perhaps his biggest tactical blunder was contractual, in putting himself into a team where at worst he’d be riding for someone else, and at best his team mates wouldn’t be riding for him due to other team priorities. Reminds me a lot of Cavendish’s situation at Team Sky in 2012, where he might have taken a lot more if the team had been more available to him than they were.

True if you only look at Grand Tours but that’s missing the point of the move, which was to win big in the Spring Classics, during which he was the undisputed leader with a strong team at his disposal. TdF and the green jersey is a bit of a consolation prize this year.

It’s a race so they should race right up to the last day. Why do we need a celebration and parade on the last day, the TDF is each and every year. Personally I think mechanical issues are just part of it like crashes and bad weather. All of these things make the race more exciting. In downhill you don’t get competitors saying,”Oh his chain broke so we should all go again to make it fair and just about skill and fitness”.

None of the other teams seem to be able to get close to dominating like Sky do and this can be seen the huge time differences. TDF needs to get back to winning by seconds and one day the leader being smashed to bits and then for him to come back fitting the next day. Granted this happened far more in the days of doping but it made the race so much better.

Watched all of the last week and of course enjoyed it but really we all knew it was a done deal and Froome was going to win. When you are 90% certain who is going to win it just becomes a bit dull.

He’d have gone to a Belgian team if he was that serious about winning the classics. He went to Tinkoff for the money.

TDF needs to get back to winning by seconds and one day the leader being smashed to bits and then for him to come back fitting the next day. Granted this happened far more in the days of doping but it made the race so much better.

You realise this is the tenth closest tour de france in history?

In what way? Only a fool would not have at least a bit of cynicism about the sport for at least a generation. That doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy it – but I see it for what it is.

Cynicism is one thing, but that’s just a completely unfounded suggestion, and with the goings-on of the last three weeks I may have got slightly unwarrentedly hot under the collar about it. 🙂 There’s no evidence other than history and matey-boy Sallet’s scribbling on the back of a fag packet to suggest anything untoward has happened, you’ve got people like Davids Millar and Walsh saying they think he’s clean, his build and performance are suggestive of a clean rider – I just get a bit vexed at the allegations. Maybe allegations are too strong a word – more “suggestions”. I guess we’ll find out one way or the other, but otherwise there’s nothing to see, as far as I can tell.

He’d have gone to a Belgian team if he was that serious about winning the classics. He went to Tinkoff for the money.

Hard to argue with that! Though I think Oleg was serious about wanting to win in the classics, be interesting to see if he sticks with Sagan and builds a classics team around him.

the leader being smashed to bits and then for him to come back fitting the next day. Granted this happened far more in the days of doping but it made the race so much better.

I’m guessing you mean fighting not fitting – that would be different!

Pretty sure this only happened/happens with chemical assistance. But as you say, it made compelling viewing. Floyd Landis’ return from the dead after a little testosterone pick me up was brilliant to watch at the time.

Sagan is still only 24 years of age, IIRC, quite young.

Does anyone feel he could contest GC, one day?

The Boston Globe pictures seem not linked this year within STW. Let me remedy that this year

Boston Globe

Does anyone feel he could contest GC, one day?

No chance. Not unless doping makes a major resurgence…

Highlights for me:

++ Froome winning both the MJ and KoM
+ Steve Cummings racing past two squabbling Frenchies to win a stage
+ Cav finally getting his act together to win a stage
+ Fabien Cancellara sprinting to get yellow
– Fabien Cancellara crashing out of yellow
+ Tony Martin breakaway to get yellow
– Tony Martin crashing out of yellow
+ Close run TTT
– Contador fatigued from Giro win
– Nibali not having his head together in first two weeks
+ TvG and BMC quietly up there for the first half of the Tour
– TvG succumbing to illness and pulling out
+ The Tour course mixing it up and not just tons of boring sprint stages
+ Amazing death-defying descents
+ Peter Sagan’s antics
– Peter Sagan not winning at least one stage
+ The climax on l’Alpe d’Huez
+ Nairo Quintana’s quiet determination
+ ITV4’s blanket live coverage and highlights programs
+ Chris Froome’s dogged detrmination and dignity in the face of

— Unfounded accusations and speculation from the French press particularly people like Lauren Jalabert who is a dirty drug cheat himself. This lead to unwarrented vitriol from certain spectators which no-one should have to be subject to not even the several already convicted drug cheats in the peloton. The French people should be ashamed that it has been allowed to taint their great annual spectacle.

All-in-all though a great Tour, probably the best in my living memory.

p.s.

Quintana’s going to find it a lot harder to challenge Froome next year as well because the individual time trial will almost certainly make a return and there will probably be less mountain stages as well.

Wood74 you need to get the rose tinted glasses off.

the huge time differences. TDF needs to get back to winning by seconds

4 out of the 10 smallest winning margins have come since 2006. 2006, 2007, 2008 & 2015. Have a look at the winning margins of the likes Indurain, Hinualt & Merckx!!

A couple of more points I’d like to chirp in with.

True enough on occasion Sagan did falter at the last moment, but I reckon he’d achieved all his targets by then and whilst a stage win would have been nice, not overly crucial when 4 years of Green Jerseys are the real goals.. clearly IMO. Tactically, nope I think he’s a smart and astute rider, knows where and when to place himself for the good and how to react when needed. Supporting Bertie did hamper him I feel and would have taken the shine of those breaks he had when the shouting in his right ear ensued he backed off then 20k’s form the finish got told to hack on.. If only Tinkoff would let the bloke ride and use his brains more and shut up blerting on about him.. Tactically, he chose a team that gave him options for Green and £’000000’s.. Can’t really say the bloke hasn’t got his head screwed on can you.

Biggest disappointment overall for me, and it’s tempered somewhat by the fact that accidents took out a few riders was Trek. Now I know all about the heady days of years gone by and Voght and the Slekkies, but really? a team backed by a huge brand only offering up Jungles and Mollema? Cav ought to sign for them, they could do with his get up and go IMO.. and let Etixx sit up a bit and rest on an ageing Belgian (even though I do still love him) whose now cursed with lack of ability and injury.. Yup Boonan.

Oleg seems to be backing Sagan to the hilt now, so I reckon he’ll be keen to keep him.

I don’t have time for an essay sadly, but my bulletpoints…

Heroes – Sagan, Geraint (its unseemly to call him G apparently), Cummings, Bardet, Tony MArtin and the Colombian dude who tried to follow Sagan down that descent.

Anti-heroes – Barguil, Valverde, Nibali.

No villains really.

Damp squibs – Garmin Cannondale, Contador, Cav a bit TBH.

Best stages – The Belgian (and Dutch?) ones with short punchy climbs at the end and the final two mountain stages. But they were all good in their way. Kudos to the course designer for cutting out the flat sprint stages.

Anti-heroes – Barguil, Valverde, Nibali.

I get Valverde and Nibali but why Barguil? Just curious as he seems to be held in high regard

Sagan is still only 24 years of age, quite young.

Does anyone feel he could contest GC, one day?

I’d love him to, but could he do it in the proper high mountains, day after day? Not now, but if he targetted it, could he change his physique? Very possibly, but in doing so, he’d doubtless lose something else – Sagan the climber, but no longer the sprinter?

I think he’s showed enough “jack of all trades” potential that it’s not a silly question, but whether he’d ever make the top of the top is hard to know until / unless he tries it – he might be next Froome, Merckx or Indurain (hopefully clean though) or he might be the next Tejay van Garderen, pretty much as good as everyone else, but ever so slightly not quite..

As a big Sagan fan, I spent a LOT of time shouting at the telly this year, mainly “Go! Go now! For pity’s sake LAUNCH!!!”

I get Valverde and Nibali but why Barguil?

There was a small “racing incident” with Geraint thomas you may remember which he’s copped a bit of flack for.

I get Valverde and Nibali but why Barguil?

Riding like a **** (but an exciting ****) and taking Geraint Thomas out.

I agree, he’s my favourite of the Frenchies because he;s so aggressive.

Yes. Geraint has certainly earned a mention in dispatches.

I hope he gets his chance.

Oleg seems to be backing Sagan to the hilt now, so I reckon he’ll be keen to keep him.

Maybe today. Tomorrow who knows with Oleg! 😕

What could I add to much of the above, nothing really other than. Had Quintana down for the win overall but am pleased that Froome and Sky won it, they worked for it and were not nearly so dominant as has been portrayed by some. Movistar to me were an awesome team and really could have won. Given that Valverde rides for them perhaps its better a Quintana win was not tarnished by him, though Valverde on the podium was a shame.

Am sad its all over.

Excellent tour overall. Agree with the itemisation above by forzaf.
Very good coverage by ITV4, I particularly enjoyed the feature/voiceovers by David Millar. Importantly they don’t overdo the emotional musical montage like the BBC these days.
Froome a worthy winner, I’d like to see a non-Sky winner next year, Quintana in particular, or Romain Bardet, who has the most “classic” bike riding style you’ll ever see.
Until next year!

I know what you mean about Oleg Mrblobby, but he does seem to appreciate Sagan for his commercial potential as well as his performance.

And while he might be a bit of a sociopath, I get the impression Tinkoff is a capable businessman.

Very good coverage by ITV4

I did have the misfortune to have to listen to some of the Sherwin and Ligget commentary the other day for the first time in years… good god it’s awful, even worse than I ever remembered it being. Cliche ridden patronising drivel. Such a shame Ligget didn’t quit as promised when Armstrong confessed 🙁

I watched the live stuff on Eurosport and flicked over to ITV for the punditry.
It’s a poor state of affairs when Carlton Cole is the preferred option. Can someone please put David Harmon with David Millar
Reading between the thinly veiled lines, ITV are in a contract to use NBC commentary (Sherwin and Ligget) and would rather not, but it would cost them too much to do their own

That’s my understanding too, the Yanks want Phil and Paul so we are lumbered with them.

I just zone them out and watch what’s happening instead, the pictures and graphics are usually excellent.

I quite like ITV4’s punditry team, especially Boardman’s dry pronouncments and Matt Rendell doorstepping Jalabert was gold.

Mainly watched the highlights, did you get more than five seconds of Jens Voght in the live broadcasts?

Personally I think mechanical issues are just part of it like crashes and bad weather. All of these things make the race more exciting.

Actually I think they ought to use James Bond Aston Martin DB5’s as Team Cars. That would liven things up a bit. I also think that each team should have a nominated domestique who is authorised to attack other team leaders in the way that Barguil took out Thomas. Much more interesting. 🙄

On the commentary / punditry side, I enjoyed Jens Voight’s contributions a great deal this year. It reminded me of how he rode the tour – whatever the situation was on the road, when Jensie was asked what he thought someone should do at that point, the answer was always along the lines of “Put it all in and go for the win!”

blah blah 17th century chateux blah blah former mountain biker blah blah chris porte blah blah saxo quickstep blah blah

actually I prefer them to Eurosport

Needs more Jens

As an actual “French people” I feel ashamed for the human race, not France. Idiots exist in all countries (and we know that one of the idiots spitting at Froome was likely to be Dutch) and I will put odds on that if it had been a non-British team leading the GC with their non-British GC leader, the British press would hardly have been a serene haven of tranquility. Froome was mauled in the British press over the spat with Wiggins (caused partly by their better halves then prolonged by Wiggins refusing to pay Froome his share of the winnings).

On a not totally unrelated note, is there any danger of Liggett and Sherwen **** off yet? Not only are they solid-gold doping apologists but they can’t even see a rider being knocked off his bike by a motorbike when the incident is replayed 3 times.