Toe curling 650b marketing guff.

It was pretty amusing to see them getting schooled by little kids on their cheap bmxs.

In their deffence:

*The pros probably spend as much time on the road bikes as the kids do at the BMX track
*Everyone looks ungainly at a BMX track on an MTB regardles of wheel size, but it is even worse on bigger wheels, the wheels are big relative to the transitions which makes the arc the axle/bike describes much tighter than the smaller wheels, and the longer wheelbases makes taking off/landing on shorter transitions more difficult.
*The pro’s would prbably ‘school’ them on BMX’s

Nothing but 26 inch wheels in my garage and hopefully it will remain so for a very long time. I just can’t see the point of it all, who are all these ordinary punters who DEMAND!!! the highest performance bike no matter what? I like riding bikes for fun, the slower I can go and still have a laugh the better.

But at the end of the day there is so little difference between 26″ and 650b that it hardly matters, when and if my current bikes expire I may get one but not just becuase it is 650b.

As for 29’ers – no way, I really think they will become a bit niche.

The woman from trek, who was talking sense, has a obvious pause. As she goes through the travel size wheel size in her head. the good lady has to stop herself 26″ is best for flicking around. Definate look of conflict on her face!

But at the end of the day there is so little difference between 26″ and 650b that it hardly matters, when and if my current bikes expire I may get one but not just becuase it is 650b.

Someone (ie. me) might’ve said that already.

hora – Member

unrollable IMO <snip> He rolled it.

I would be revising that opinion I think 🙂

*Everyone looks ungainly at a BMX track on an MTB regardles of wheel size

4x/jump bikes seem to handle it fairly well, even the DH riders on their race bikes looked way better.

*The pro’s would prbably ‘school’ them on BMX’s

The 7 yr old could manual and jump, so probably not* .

* Honorable exception goes to Jose Ulloa (mexican junior) who was rad, even on a 29er.

My MTB is so obsolete it’s actually quite funny now.

26″ wheels (held on by things called “quick release”)
ISIS BB/cranks
Dual Control (flappy paddle) shifters
9 speed
triple chainset
25.4mm bars

Tick to that lot apart from the flappy paddles – but then I’d argue you were buying into a fad with those anyway. It seemed such an ultimate bike when I built it up 6 years ago.

Why does it seem to be such a shock that bike companies want to sell more bikes?
If you’re not in the market for a new bike then what does it matter?

My Anger has now turned to sadness as, watching the video again you have to understand that 650b has’nt come from the marketing department at all…..Its actually come from the accounts department.

There is no way im riding a bike because an accountant tells me to

Oh and did you notice what the guy from Giant says at the beginning : ‘ We realised that 29 inch wheels wasnt right for all Markets and err riders ‘

says it all doesnt it? – its just about Markets, and im guessing he is referring to the Asian ones. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Maybe but I wouldn’t have attempted to roll it.

That’s coz you didnt have a 29er to smooth out the trail

If you’d had a twosevenfiver you could have smoothed out the trail enough to roll the drop, AND made the trail come alive.

Shame all this guff in my opinion is hurting the industry… I mean imagine trying a few shops to buy a bike and getting bamboozled by all the wheel size bobbins !!!

I decided to stick to what I have 26″ and to hell with it 🙂 🙂

Why does it seem to be such a shock that bike companies want to sell more bikes?
If you’re not in the market for a new bike then what does it matter?

Trek employee at 1.45 – 26″ wheels are best for up to 140mm / 150mm travel bikes.

So that’s most of them then..

It’s simple really 29″ for XC bikes, and 650b for more Enduro stuff, with 26″ being binned. I think it’s a good thing as ultimately everyone gets better mtb’s as a result, and people also make money, it’s a win all around.

Just opened this months ST. I’ve changed my mind the 27.5 marketing guff is actualy noxious.

I still want to try/buy one, as I think my 29er’s have been so significantly better than the 26″ bikes they replaced, so 650b might have advantages. But the marketing is wayyyyy OTT.

Want’s list:

29″ 150mm travel bike for ‘enduro’
29″ 120mm travel bike for ‘trail’
(already got a hardtail, but somethign carbon and sily lightweright wouldn’t go amiss)

Thankfully being 6ft and able to ride on properly sized bikes this whole debate is below me (litteraly).

It’s simple really 29″ for XC bikes, and 650b for more Enduro stuff, with 26″ being binned. I think it’s a good thing as ultimately everyone gets better mtb’s as a result, and people also make money, it’s a win all around.

define better please?

29 might be better for some XC courses some of the time, nothing is ever cut and dryed. 26 and 27.5 f* all difference.

Except the tyres/wheels/forks/frames etc i have are now obselete and spares will get harder to get quite quickly. Particularly if you want anything half decent.

Leku – Member
Trek employee at 1.45 – 26″ wheels are best for up to 140mm / 150mm travel bikes.

So that’s most of them then..

That’s what I was struggling with trying to understand. I think she means that it’s 29″, not 26″, for up to 140mm. 26″ are gone. 27.5″ for > 140mm.

But then she was going on about flickability. If you want that, then surely the smallest wheel is best? So who knows what she actually means.

Except the tyres/wheels/forks/frames etc i have are now obselete and spares will get harder to get quite quickly. Particularly if you want anything half decent.

Will they? Plenty of new 26″ kit is still getting released. And most peoples arguments against change are “I already have everything and spares in 26”.

😆 at hora and dezb. Why is captain Picard in the back of the car?

Imagining some posters walking into their LBS

“I want a really low BB and slack head angle because that will make it more stable, but I want really small wheels to make it less stable”

No doubt in an effort to remain just behind the curve in a few years they’ll be demanding steep angles and 29″ wheels (not that that’s old hat, just the illustrative oppposite).

A slack head angle and low BB enable you to drift your bike around more and have more fun with your smaller wheels. 🙂

Will they? Plenty of new 26″ kit is still getting released. And most peoples arguments against change are “I already have everything and spares in 26”.

No, the issue is that most people have a fair selection but not many have a full set, so all you do have is scrap. I have spare wheels and tyres, but not forks for instance.

No, you heard it from the Giant bloke in the video 29 wasn’t right for some markets – By that what he means is that although it took off in the states, 29 fell flat on its arse in the rest of the world, Europe in particular – 650 came about to force people into change because they wouldn’t buy in to 29 by choice.

You seem to think manufacturers care about the high end mountain bike market outside the US… Hell I’m just over the boarder and they won’t listen to a word from the reps/dealers. I think people in the UK would eventually started riding a lot more 29″. It’s just a nation of luddites. All the shall I go tubeless or buy a dropper post posts on here display that perfectly.

That’s what I was struggling with trying to understand. I think she means that it’s 29″, not 26″, for up to 140mm. 26″ are gone. 27.5″ for > 140mm.

But then she was going on about flickability. If you want that, then surely the smallest wheel is best? So who knows what she actually means.

Watch it again. She says 29″ for stability and speed and 650bs for when the travel starts to make the wheelsize less relevant. I’d say you could easily have overlap between 650b and 29″ upto 160mm but that’s the only thing I would really disagree with what she said. Thing is Trek make a sweet 160mm 650b Slash yet Tracey Moseley just won the EWS on a 140mm Remedy 29″.

Watch it again

Now you’re really having a laugh!

Whether people want it or not I think the bit about 26″ being dead tells you where they want to go. 26″ parts will get harder to get. You can see now on other parts – getting 1 1/8″ forks are now harder to come by (ok, Merlin have some but choice is limited compared to a few years ago).

Whilst there are loads of 26″ bikes around from the last 20 odd years I bet decent, new model forks etc will be harder to get in the next couple of years

After 5 pages of the usual shit, who has actually ridden a 650b bike and 29″ bike?

who has actually ridden a 650b bike and 29″ bike?

yes just wish there was some middle ground between the two

#runs away back to workbench 😉

yes just wish there was some middle ground between the two

That’ll be those mischievous scamps at Surly with their new 26+ Instigator 2.0 then.

😉

After 5 pages of the usual shit, who has actually ridden a 650b bike and 29″ bike

Me! Currently still have both too 🙂

A Liteville 301 & an Enduro 29.

Can’t decide between them to be honest 🙄

Great. First a dogshit video, now I-know-it-all JCL wades in harping bollocks.
Its going nowhere. Bin it.

Increasingly I’m finding that the most important thing about my MTB equipment is warm feet and a comfy arse, wheel sizes are pretty low on my list of things to consider. If 27.5 is what they make then I’ll buy that, I’m sure it’ll be shitloads better than me.

Kudos for the Castle gif.
Finished seasons 1 &2 on netflix, preordered the 1-5 boxed set. Castle rocks.

27.5 can suck my ***ry ***se ***lls BECAUSE of the way its being marketed like feed is marketed to geese for foie gras

I like my giants, but im going to stick with my proper sized wheeled one for as long as possible you shower of ****ng ****t *********its

The wheel size debate, the gift that just keeps giving.
I recently built up a 2010 orange 5 frame I bought at Xmas last year.

At the time of purchase I was aware it was not the current model (last of the older, smaller seat tube, 1 1/8 head tube.
But that did not bother me in the slightes as I thought I had the makings of a great bike and the differences would make no difference to me.

Then i became aware of the whole wheelsize debate and was originally peed off that my bike no longer would be current and lacking compared to the far superior new 27.5 bikes that seemed to be taking over.

But now after much deliberation I am glad I have the frame I have as I genuinely believe my bike is far more capable than I ever will be.

My objection is to people standing up and saying 26 wheels are finished and not a patch on the very bikes the sold you last year, whilst singing there praises and charging you a few thousand for the pleasure.

Also a bit miffed with orange as read a post sometime ago where someone wanted to buy a replacement swingarm from them only to be told the were keeping the ones they had for any future warranty repairs.

Now surely if you spend thousands of pounds on something that you would hope to get good use of would you not expect said companies to make parts for it for atleast 5 years or so.

Imagine buying a new car and then in three years being told by the manufacturer, sorry we no longer make the parts you need and the few we have you can’t have.

My objection is to people standing up and saying 26 wheels are finished and not a patch on the very bikes the sold you last year, whilst singing there praises and charging you a few thousand for the pleasure.

Exactly. F those guys.

Now surely if you spend thousands of pounds on something that you would hope to get good use of would you not expect said companies to make parts for it for atleast 5 years or so.

Imagine buying a new car and then in three years being told by the manufacturer, sorry we no longer make the parts you need and the few we have you can’t have.

with cars and stuff I’m sure they have to make spares for a certain timeframe after with bikes not so sure though even if some enterprising company makes a pattern part or copy part to cater for that market a manufacturer can sue your arse

unless you make technical progress (improved product) to replace the OEM part

Also to accommodate these larger wheels,
The frames appear to have strange shaped down tubes, Stems with brewers droop And rubber stops to prevent your bar furniture from damaging your frame .

All goes to make me think they have not really thought this through.

Some suspension systems work well with bigger wheels, some it is a squeeze and the geometry [especially seat tube] gets weird to fit it all in.

Single pivots end up with very long chain stays.

Horst links seems to work pretty well.

Maestro and other twin links seem to have issues, because like single pivots they have a forward arc. Pivot and Niner get around this, because their lower link is more forward.

29er giants didn’t look right and the seat angle didn’t work.

For me, I think you want a straight seat-post and short chain stays, and this is much easier to achieve on 26 and 650b.

Also a bit miffed with orange as read a post sometime ago where someone wanted to buy a replacement swingarm from them only to be told the were keeping the ones they had for any future warranty repairs.

Now surely if you spend thousands of pounds on something that you would hope to get good use of would you not expect said companies to make parts for it for atleast 5 years or so.

This is one of the things that really annoys me. The whole industry seems to be saying “we were happy to take your money last year, but now you can F++* off as we have found a new set of suckers to fleece”