Tipping in Restuarnts – Wife Annoyed

This is entirely correct, but trying to effect change by stopping tipping just hurts the most vulnerable.

Quite right, but we need to be careful not to sleep walk into a similar situation to merica. I don’t regard tipping as mandatory and won’t tip if I haven’t had a nice experience; be it good service and/or good food.
If I do intend on tipping, generally ask if they get to keep their tips (resultant from the stories of owners keeping them).
I wouldn’t dream of tipping a barber or a barman though.

Quite right, but we need to be careful not to sleep walk into a similar situation to merica

I think the key difference is waiting staff not being exempt from minimum wage. If that ever changes we will be straight there.

Bloody Hell,

I never realised eating out was such a confrontational activity.

WTF. Theres a fair bit of trolling going on here. When have waitering staff been ‘vunerable’?

They work in a warm, clean environment. They are paid to smile, carry food from the kitchen and take the plates away.

The stressful work happens in the kitchen and the boss/manager balancing the books, trying to get staff to turn up for work.

You enjoy the service- its not bloody hard! You dont tip because you might think they are abused/starving/have two single kids at home/get onto the pole and dance for men.

some people on STW seem to jump three steps ahead and really do struggle with the concept of action and reward.

Stop watching Hollywood films dudes.

Waiter/waitress starts off with a tip. How they treat us determines how much if that tip is left at the end of the meal.

Once had a stand up row with a waiter who was the rudest person I’ve ever met. We waited ages, he was surly and not at all welcoming. When the bill came there was a ‘discretional’ service charge which I asked to be removed. At which point he went postal. Yelling at customers in the middle of a restaurant is clearly the best way to get a tip.

IMO tipping a barman makes much more sense than tipping a waiter/waitress. Leave me a couple of pounds on the bar or buy me a drink and you’ll find you somehow get your drinks quicker when it’s busy. Tip = better service. I don’t neglect other customers, far from it, but if I know what you’re drinking it’s not hard for me to pour one whilst I’m serving another customer.

Hora, are you sure you’ve worked as a waiter? It can be bloody stressful at times. Sure, working in a kitchen can be mega stressful (I’ve done it), but at least you don’t have to deal with arsehole customers. Are you an arsehole customer?

The fact is that in most UK restaurants, service is not included in your bill. Tipping is simply paying what is due, and I always leave at least 10% in cash, unless the service has been very poor. If the food was bad, I would send it back or ask for it to be taken off the bill.

Comparing waiting staff to toilet cleaners is self-justifying whataboutery.

That said, I much prefer the French system where service is included.

hora – Member

Stop watching Hollywood films dudestop being a tight arsed ****! 😆

My girlfriend once tipped £5 in a self-serve buffet.

i wasnt happy

Are you an arsehole customer?

You’ve never been to school. Read one of my earlier comments. If its proving difficult comeback to me and I’ll help you out. Hint: Its bottom of page 3.

The fact is that in most UK restaurants, service is not included in your bill.

What do you mean by that?
Do you mean the owner hasn’t accounted for staff wages? or do you mean the staff bonus?
or something else?

When have waitering staff been ‘vunerable’?

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.

Remember I am talking about the US here. Sure, some table staff will be students looking for a bit of pocket money, but some will be trying to make a precarious living. They are the vulnerable ones.

The fact is that in most UK restaurants, service is not included in your bill.

This is just not true. Might be true in the states but a UK restaurant has to by law pay all it’s staff at least the minimum wage. The waiter/waitress has been paid out of the money the owner makes from the bill, ergo the ‘service’ (whatever the hell that actually means) has been included in your bill. In the states it appears the workers in a restaurant are not always actually paid by the restaurant owner (or if they are, not very much) so in that case what you state is true.

Remember I am talking about the US here

Why?

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.

Surely you mean McDonalds, Burger King etc, warehouse staff, shop staff, call centre staff or all industries etc etc in that comment then.

None of the above are on fantastic salaries. None of the above can add significantly percentagewise to their daily wage. Yet most of the above are expected to serve, clean and smile as part of the wage that they are paid.

Even if waiters were paid only minimum wage- that wage is paid to them to do the job, carry a plate, smile. Why should someone in McDonalds be treated different in your calculations?

For the record I’ve worked in a restaurant, McDonalds, Woolworths and various warehouses. At no point did I feel vunerable or taken advantage of.

Im out now but the next time this topic comes around I’ll be sure to post again.

This is just not true.

It is absolutely true. I know this because the bill says so.

What do you mean by that?
Do you mean the owner hasn’t accounted for staff wages? or do you mean the staff bonus?
or something else?

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

Thats why you wouldn’t tip at McDonalds or at places where you queue up to order food at the bar.

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

Again, not factually correct.

So why is more expensive than those places then?

I know this because the bill says so.

You are a complete mug. 🙂

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

That’s not the case in the UK
Employers must pay the minimum wage and are not allowed to make it up with tips accrued.
So why would the restaurant not include the cost of waiters in the bill?

You are a complete mug.

No, just capable of reading what is written.

So why would the restaurant not include the cost of waiters in the bill?

Convention, on the understanding that the customer will pay for that cost unless there is a good reason not to.

Convention, on the understanding that the customer will pay for that cost unless there is a good reason not to.

OK then
Let’s say you tip the waiter a fiver, given that service isn’t included.
How does the restaurant owner get hold of that fiver in order to pay for the service?

No, just capable of reading what is written.

Go on, explain, it’ll be entertaining!

The person plonking the food down in front of you in a UK restaurant will be being paid at least the UK minimum wage by the owner (unless they are the owner in which case they might be making a loss for the privilege) out the money you pay for the actual cost of the food as written on the menu. Anything you leave as a tip is to supplement their wage above that minimum because you think they went above and beyond, or you are worried about getting cock cheese in your soup next time you go.

Go on, explain, it’ll be entertaining!

It says “service not included”. I can’t make it any simpler for you.

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.
Surely you mean McDonalds, Burger King etc, warehouse staff, shop staff, call centre staff or all industries etc etc in that comment then.

Even if waiters were paid only minimum wage- that wage is paid to them to do the job, carry a plate, smile

I really don’t think you are reading carefully. Please do so.

I am talking about the US, where waiting staff are paid BELOW minimum wage. The tips are there to bring them up to that MINIMUM level. If you don’t tip, they make under minimum wage.

Re the vulnerable – it’s not different, no. All poorly paid low skilled workers are vulnerable (that’s why I used the word amongst).

You do not normally get the chance to tip anyone else – that’s the difference.

If you can help one person, then do so – if you cannot help others, that’s no reason not to help out those you can.

I am talking about the US, where waiting staff are paid BELOW minimum wage. The tips are there to bring them up to that MINIMUM level. If you don’t tip, they make under minimum wage

We know you are but the thread is about tipping in the UK not the US and mixing the two practices doesn’t make sense.

OK then
Let’s say you tip the waiter a fiver, given that service isn’t included.
How does the restaurant owner get hold of that fiver in order to pay for the service?

They don’t. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

Dont think convention has anything to do with it. Its a free choice to tip or not. I tip based on how I feel about the service and food I receive. I dont feel compelled one way or the other

Couple of quid per head (usually just me and the wife) for a low key lunch or dinner.

10%+ for a special meal

Zero if the food & service were crap

If you can help one person, then do so – if you cannot help others, that’s no reason not to help out those you can.

As well as quite a few others on here, I think you’ll find his attitude to ‘help’ is the same as this gentleman’s…..

😛

They don’t. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

It may be well fed but I’m not far of minimum wage myself, I don’t accepts tips BTW – before you start offering 😉

Dont think convention has anything to do with it. Its a free choice to tip or not. I tip based on how I feel about the service and food I receive. I dont feel compelled one way or the other

Similarly, I don’t feel compelled to pay for my main course if it’s crap. I would ask for a replacement or for it to be taken off the bill.

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

You can’t possibly think that this is true.

It’s so obviously complete cobblers, you have to be trolling 🙂

If it’s true, then I should be paying my tip direct to the owner, because they are the ones paying the waiter his wage every week, so they need the tips to make up their losses surely.

I don’t feel compelled to pay for my main course if it’s crap

Hmm but then you’ve got the problem that people’s definition of crap varies enormously.

We know you are but the thread is about tipping in the UK not the US and mixing the two practices doesn’t make sense.

Well I pointed it out for the benefit of those who may travel to the US and take their hard-nosed tipping policy with them – and people did not seem aware.

However Hora then started arguing with me about it, and seemed unaware that I was making a distinction. Hence the clarification directed at him.

Hmm but then you’ve got the problem that people’s definition of crap varies enormously.

True, but some things are pretty easy to define, like a well-cooked steak when I’ve asked for it rare.

I can only remember complaining twice in restaurants. On one occasion (overdone steak), I had a replacement main course, on another (very long wait), they discounted the bill. Neither problem was the fault of the waiting staff so I still left a tip.

If it’s true, then I should be paying my tip direct to the owner, because they are the ones paying the waiter his wage every week, so they need the tips to make up their losses surely.

You mean a bit like this?

The Low Pay Commission, which recommends minimum wage levels, estimates that more than 100,000 adults receive below the legal rates – and the actual figure is probably considerably higher because of under-reporting of the problem. The TUC believes that between 250,000 and 300,000 employees could be unlawfully denied the minimum wage.

Although it is supposed to be illegal to pay staff below those levels, employers are using a variety of ruses to sidestep the rates. They include: restaurants assuming staff will receive a certain sum in tips and deducting that cash from their pay packets

Lol – subtle trolling Molgrips 😀