Ti frames – why the fashion for plate dropouts? Are they not weaker?

Shenanigans – that's a Cotic Soda dropout! 😉

Just bought a Van Nic Tuareg ,am I heading for a world of plate dropout nightmares ? :~( http://tinyurl.com/yh2rxqv

fasthaggis at least Van Nicolas offer you a lifetime warranty. It doesn't seem to be something many other Ti frames come with. I rather like the look of the Zion Rohloff with the belt drive. Quite easy to build it up under 25lbs as well.

Avdave

I have had a Ti hardtail frame for the last few years that I have really liked ,but it didn't have any disc mount points on it.
I was thinking about getting some welded on,but then started looking around at new frames instead.
I had been going to get a Voodoo D-jab ,but halfords fecked it up ,so I went for the Tuareg instead. Looking forward to getting it built up.

Would I buy a Lynskey made frame as a result? Probably not now.

What if they were £799?

Subtle!!! :o)

Are they defo the lynskey versions.. can't get to hotmail to check the mailshot!!!.

What is the finish like???

at least Van Nicolas offer you a lifetime warranty. It doesn't seem to be something many other Ti frames come with.

Lifetime until they change their name again.

PS: I'm bopping around on a steel frame now.

or you could conclude that some people are not good bike testers and some are; knowing what to look for and how to test for it is different to just being given a bike and asked for a comment.

You're right – the crucial part is knowing what you're looking for. Helps a lot to know when you're riding a ti frame that it's supposed to be springy and comfortable. It tends to be the people who don't know that (or don't know it's a ti frame as somebody sneaky has painted it to look like a steel one) who have trouble perceiving those qualities.

Mark Lynskey just added a rear strengthening strut to increase strength on the rear end, its not the prettiest addition or the subtlest, …..

Hmmmm… directional bike frames anyone? To go with the chain lube?

Oh, hold on…. :oD

Brant

At that price, it's a tough call. The cheap Scotsman in me thinks that's a bit of a bargain if the brace is a solution which would stop the frame from snapping. 😀 Whether I would be pragmatic enough to ignore the fact that the not necessarily statistically sound sample of one of my mates ending up doing a very long walk off a big mountain coloured my judgement of Lynskey made frames is another question. 😉

Cheers

Sanny

Sanny – One bike breaks at the welds and you tar all of them with that brush?

Not sure if the point has already been made, but there may well be greater variation in weld strength than the strength of the dropout design.

aracer – Member

or you could conclude that some people are not good bike testers and some are; knowing what to look for and how to test for it is different to just being given a bike and asked for a comment.

You're right – the crucial part is knowing what you're looking for.
Not sure what point you are making, point I'd be making is that there's nowhere near enough evidence to say "it has the plate dropouts which we think are weaker", especially after a short test.

So why the extra brace then if there's not a problem? Have On One had many of these back?

Druidh – did that just fail from regular riding, what caused it?

Haddock – not mine, just linking the two facts together. On One obviously think there may be a design fault or they would not have needed that change. If I'd bought one of the previous design, I'd be a bit concerned.

mmm, not been loads of snapped ti 456's popping up on here, though admit its quite an addition to the frame in light of that pic.

haddock – Member
mmm, not been loads of snapped ti 456's popping up on here, though admit its quite an addition to the frame in light of that pic.

I wonder if the proportion of snapped frames is more or less than Commencal or Cotic?

Prob not! A fair few commencals have popped up on here! Still nice bikes though if you get a good un.

How do you strike the balance between style and substance though? Surely strength is far more important than looks?

Not sure what point you are making

The point I was making was all in the bit you snipped!

Would that strut on the new on-one even be noticed on a fully built bike?

The lynsky built ti ibis limited has a similar strutt. They should have made them with the same disk mount as Steve potts makes… Stunning and disperses the stress down the tube I am told!

The really funny thing is that we had no idea Mark has added the strut to the rear stays until we opened the boxes yesterday , ( maybe I vaguely recall him saying something) but we ordered these frames way back in May and its been a very long delivery wait and I cant remember what happened last week let alone May. There were a few breakages , maybe 3 or 4 (out of quite a lot) , so its just a bit of additional strength .

A bit of a breakdown in communication , cant say were fans of the strut , and it could have been made much prettier , but the 456 is not meant to be pretty so on the basis weve got quite a lot , and we paid in May ! , and we now need some cash for our big move were moving em out .

druid – I bought one of the previous design after seeing that photo. I'm happy I love the bike.

Cynic-al

For me, seeing any bike brake at a weld that is only three months old would give me cause to consider whether or not to buy one. Going back to my original question, I'm still undecided as to whether this style of design is one that is potentially weaker than others used. I'm not saying that anyone should not buy On one nor any other brand for that matter on the basis of one broken frame, only that it would make me think twice. I guess that is just human nature! 😀

Ultimately, all bikes will break at some point. My trusty 5 Spot snapped clean through at the weld on the seat tube after 5 years of very extensive use while the aluminium headset insert in my Hummer decided to part company from the frame a few weeks ago much to my surprise! It doesn't mean they are necessarily badly made or designed nor that all Turners and Coves should be consigned to the scrap heap.

Being Scottish, I could have had two 456s for the price of my old Hummer. 😉

Cheers

Sanny

PS Fair play to Dave at Planet X for coming on with info about the new strut. There's a lot to be said for dealing with a UK business that clearly cares about its customers and it's public perception.

but the 456 is not meant to be pretty

Phew – I thought you thought it WAS pretty, like a parent who can't see that their baby basically looks like Mr Potato Head… 😉

I think the dropouts on the dialled bikes are a good design. Sort of a cross between the two. Loads of weld area for the stays but they are also pretty big and plate like. He doesnt use a brace for the disc brakes either.

Does anyone know where the TI Commencals have been made? I've been offered a new 2008 flame for an irresistible price…

"anyone know where the TI Commencals have been made?"

yes – and i'd trust them when it comes to ti. not seen one come back at madison.

The simple reason we (Charge Bikes) use plate dropouts on the Titanium frames is not because of cost, but because it is a neater and more supportive solution for the rear disk mount. If the disk mount is a part of the dropout, as it is on our plate dropouts, less stress is placed on the rear chainstay under braking. It does away with the need for messy brake bridges and we have yet to have a failure at this point on a Duster Ti, Blender Ti (4X frame) and Iron ti (Dirt Jump frame). Put simply it works.

Cheers

Nick