[Closed] This whole Rooney elbow thing and the downfall of Gentleman's football.

They did that about 100 years ago, the amended game rules lead to a game called Rugby Football. Played up and down the country in two formats, League and Union.

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have two codes, like mens and womens lacrosse. One no contact for continental pussies, and one full contact for spud-faced northerners.

Football is a contact sport already - always has been, but there are lines that you don't cross. I.e. you can muscle someone off the ball but you can't just plough through them, pull them back or use your elbows.

Cynically elbowing someone isn't an agressive challenge, it's violent conduct and should be punished as such.

Sadly, over-aggressive players and cynical diving have made it impossible for refs to judge this.

Carling Cup Final as a case in point - the players would not commit to a challenge in and around the penalty area as there was a very good chance that a clean hard tackle would be seen as a foul.

It's rubbish. Make diving a professional foul and make it retrospectively appliable via video replay with a default win for the opposition (so there is no incentive).

Then refs will have more comfort is using their judgement to decide on agressive challenges and violent conduct (e.g. elbowing.)

Some players and a lot of supporters cant understand the difference between being hard and fair, and being agressive. The former is what its all about, the latter isn't.

They did that about 100 years ago, the amended game rules lead to a game called Rugby Football.

Which isn't as good a spectator sport as football, nowhere near as skilful, and not really too popular with anyone but big lumps really. Footy can be played in the street with a tin-can, by little kids. The basic game is beautifully simple. Hence it's popularity Worldwide.

Funny how any little tap these days gets met with howls of 'ooh it were much 'arder in our day' from old pros, and calls for anyone who lashes out a bit to be charged with assault. FFS...

Rooney should have bin sent off for that elbow, sure, but there are worse things happening in football, not least the influence money has on the game, and the disparity between rich and poor clubs. The media would do better to look into that, rather than focussing on Wayne Flipping Rooney all the time.

It's assault.

Get the police in and there'll be a reduction in such incidents.

Oh FFS... 🙄

Get the police in? Are you serious? For a little elbow??

Have you ever played football?

Yeah, let's take all passion and desire out of all sports, just in case someone gets hurt.

Jeeze....

Oh FFS...

Get the police in? Are you serious? For a little elbow??

Have you ever played football?

Yeah, let's take all passion and desire out of all sports, just in case someone gets hurt.

Jeeze....

I agree in the main, however, what Rooney did had nothing to do with any aspect of the game whatsoever. He's having a shit season and behaving like a greedy/selfish/oafish/petulant/belligerent/bullish cock head whenever things don't go his way on this pitch.

FA rulings let the whole system down on stuff like this. Regardless of ****tenberg's incompetence to admit he made a mistake, the FA should still be able to throw the book at Fat Boy and dish out a 3-6 game ban.

I'm a United fan of 30+ years but wish Rooney would go in the summer - he's a disgrace and an arse.

EDIT: I played Sat and Sun football into my late 20's and it's off-the-ball shit like that that gets players kicking off at each other. No justification whatsoever.

Rooneys elbow wasn't anythign to do with 'arder in our day', it was just plain pikey aggressiveness and what he is was synonymous with.

there is a distinct difference a crunching hard tackle and elbowing someone when they are not looking 🙂

Yes it probably didnt hurt as much as the player made out, but its not the point - he still did it, and chose to do it.

Which isn't as good a spectator sport as football

Yes well subjective really, I find football mind numbingly dull, and rugby compelling and scintillating, luckily there is room for both.

[i]Get the police in? Are you serious? For a little elbow??[/i]

Some bloke pushed in front of me at the coffee machine earlier. I decked him good style. It's alright though because it's in my work place.

[i]Which isn't as good a spectator sport as football[/i]

I like football, but can't watch the professional game because of all the cheating, arguing with the ref, flying elbows etc.

It's alright though because it's in my work place.

But was it riveting to watch?

Not really. Thuggery in any form is pretty offensive.

Oh FFS...

Get the police in? Are you serious? For a little elbow??

Have you ever played football?

Yeah, let's take all passion and desire out of all sports, just in case someone gets hurt.

Jeeze....

Hmmm.

So if someone walked past you in the street & elbowed you in the face are you saying you wouldnt want the Police to take action? Nothing to do with getting hurt. I expect to get hurt once in a while playing Football but not by some thug smashing me in the face with his elbow! Its obvious there was intent & thats NOT part of the game.

Any other walk of life its assault. The problem is the FA has let him get away with it - if he had been sent off & the matter dealt with correctly then the fuss would be minimal.

Keep the "desire" in football I say!

kick in the throat!

Oh FFS...

Get the police in? Are you serious? For a little elbow??

Have you ever played football?

Yeah, let's take all passion and desire out of all sports, just in case someone gets hurt.

Jeeze....

😀
Yes, I have played football. Lots. And to a pretty high standard. I have also been elbowed and had my car trashed by a thug who took offence to something I did on the pitch.

Duncan Ferguson spent time in prison for an on-pitch headbutt. If it happened outside a pub on a Friday night, the same would have applied.

If Rooney had elbowed someone in the head outside a pub, would he have faced different consequences? Why should people be above the law at work?

In my view it's similar to the Ashley Cole airgun thing - If I'd taken a gun to work I'd have been fired and the police involved immediately.

Passion and desire? My arse!

So if someone walked past you in the street & elbowed you in the face are you saying you wouldnt want the Police to take action?

Why do you need to take the Rooney incident out of it's own context?

Dunno what had happened between Rooney and McCarthy, but I'd imagine it wasn't just an unprovoked attack for no reason. Looks like McCarthy moved to block Rooney anyway, and the Baby Rhino pre-empted this. Course it's out of order. Could've resulted in a nasty injury, that. I'm amazed McCarthy had the self-control to not retaliate quite frankly. Rooney should've bin sent off and a proper ban for that. And yes, that no action will be taken against him is a travesty.

BUT

Sports are competitive, and sometimes dangerous. Things happen in the heat of the moment, whereas they probbly woon't in a non-competitive environment. If you want the police to be involved in every single incident like that, then many sports will end up suffering. Ever watched a proper Keirin race?? Aussie Rules? Ice Hockey? Etc..

The kung-fu example in Dezzies video would perhaps be a case for Babylonian Intervention, as it's not even on the field during play. And shockingly violent. Nowhere near 'normal' for footy mind.

If you think Rooney's bad, then you've forgotten that real thug at Old Trafford, Roy Keane. Proper scum. Deliberately injured another player, Alf Inge Haaland, effectively ending his career.

Another example also of Alex Ferguson being a poor human being. I don't care if it's a good tactic to support your players in public etc - it's still wrong.

If Rooney had elbowed someone in the head outside a pub, would he have faced different consequences? Why should people be above the law at work?

It wasn't in a pub though was it? It was on a football pitch. and I'm not defending Rooney, but McCarthy definitely looks to have provoked that situation a bit.

I agree there are possibly certain incidents where an arrest should be made. But a bit of argy bargy during a game rarely warrants the need for such intervention.

The correct course of action would be to fine and ban Rooney, and make him do an anger management course.

Yes, I have played football. Lots. And to a pretty high standard.

So did you make a complaint to the police every time you were 'assaulted'?

[i] Nowhere near 'normal' for footy [/i]

Nah, that was a bit of a joke.
These are all "normal", "I was going for the ball" in practically every match these days

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So did you make a complaint to the police every time you were 'assaulted'?

Was only assaulted once, so yes. Funnily enough, the police took the same view as me of that incident.

I took plenty of very hard treatment but ultimately it was within the spirit, if not the rules, of the game.

That's fine - as per Nobby Stiles, Alan Shearer, Vinnie Jones and much of Roy Keane, though not the famous stamp. IIRC Haaland did sue Keane but I don't know if he won.

Will always remember Leonardo on Ramos WC '94.

Strangely I agree with Elf.

Like Stoner Says two codes. We used to call it prison rules, bloody hurt but was more fun.

Toys rugby is different they pick up the ball. I am saying keeping the basic football rules but allowing a bit of rough and tumble. Even encourage it.

aha, now i know why my post earlier was deleted. apologies moderators, there was i thinking you were staunch manU fans! : )

so... i was appalled by the rooney incident. not so much for the act itself, but more so that millions of kids idolize rooney (my lad has just started attending a weekly soccer club and even i was surprised that it is such a sea of red replica kitted sheep - my son i am proud to say chooses to wear the correct colour, blue) so for a globally high profile figure such as this who wields massive influence on many who maybe are too young to know better its neither good sportsmanship nor on really.

don't get me wrong, i'm all for football being a bit more physical but rooneys off the ball act was just thuggerey.

then again, with an arrogant chap ('chap' replacing what i originally posted) as fergusson, who refuses to be interviewed on the BBC despite frequent fines for not doing so (why the BBC don't turn around and say 'no ManU matches on air - oh it would take at least 1hr before the ManU sponsors made sure fergusoon was available for interview) what can you expect from rooney.

Thinking about it, perhaps the FA should revise their policy of taking action even if the ref has allowed such an incident to go unpunished. Their current policy dictates that if the ref hasn't taken any action, then the player cannot retrospectively face any sanction. Which is wrong. Of course, this opens up the whole issue of 'the referee's decision is final', but in cases of foul play and unsporting behaviour, then I think retrospective sanctions should be enforceable. There are loads of off-the-ball clashes when the ref isn't looking. If players knew that they might face a hefty fine and/or a ban, then they might think twice before lashing out.

As for the police; unless such an incident has resulted in a proper injury (and the 'assaulted' player makes a formal complaint), then I don't see as how they can realistically get involved. If they were to jump on every elbow, kick out and sly dig, then a) they'd have to employ thousands of new coppers to deal with it all, and b) the game would end up being sanitised to the point it was no longer a decent contest.

Nowt like a good pagga now and then. Hopefully they'll be some tasty action tonight. Would be justice if Young Wayne got poleaxed by a Chelsea player and din't get anything from it...

Rooney's a thug, should've bin sent off, Man U would've bin down to 10 men for most of the game, and the result may have been very different. The outcome of that could've had a significant effect on the Premier League title race.

As it stands, the 3 points could be crucial in deciding the title.

Mind, won't be the first time Man U have won because of bad refereeing decisions...

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Heh! Nice! 😀

Pompey player asked for that one. He's lucky it weren't Souness he was trying to hold off...

EDIT: Remember it now; it's Michael Brown. Dirty fouling git anyway. What goes around comes around mate. Now get up and stop crying like a little girl.

Maybe Ashley Cole will bring his Arsenal with him.

Boom boom!

Stick Rooney in with these guys:

If you think Rooney's bad, then you've forgotten that real thug at Old Trafford, Roy Keane. Proper scum. Deliberately injured another player, Alf Inge Haaland, effectively ending his career.

Keane was a nasty piece of work. No argument there.

McCarthy definitely looks to have provoked that situation a bit.

How?

Why do you need to take the Rooney incident out of it's own context?

So smacking someone in the head is ok in the work place?

How?

As Rooney approaches, McCarthy appears to position/ready himself to bodycheck Rooney, to prevent him getting past. Doesn't warrant the elbow, but could be argued that McCarthy was about to foul Rooney, and Rooney decided to deal with it in his own inimitable way.

Same with that Michael Brown/Gerrard incident above; Brown is drawing his arm back towards Gerrard, but Gerrard then puts his arm up in an arguable defensive manner, which then connects with Brown's head. Looks like two players having a bit of a niggle with each other tbh. Praps Gerrard deserves a red for that. Shouldn't do it, but hey, that's part of footy, if you actually play the sport. All sorts goes on during the game; little shirt tugs, leave a foot in the tackle to impede the other player's progress, elbow in the ribs on set-pieces, etc. If another player has been chipping away at you all game, it takes a tremendous amount of willpower not to lash out. By and large, most professional players are extremely well disciplined; more so than in most other professions, tbh. You have to be if you play at top level. You wanna get yerself down to a Sunday league game, where big ugly bastards regularly kick lumps out of each other, the ref's are too scared to do much, and there's the odd proper set-to.

So smacking someone in the head is ok in the work place?

Not really no. I din't say it was, I'm just trying to explain things within their proper context.

There is no context for it to be taken out of. Even if McCarthy had wound him up, Rooney should have enough of a brain to realise that he should channel his agression, and that he was probably being wound up for a reason (ironically).

So smacking someone in the head is ok in the work place?

Depends on the work place.

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I havn't played for ages, but its full of little knocks, shirt pulls, treading on toes at corners etc..thats taken for granted.

It doesnt matter if McCarthy "was about to foul Rooney". Couldn't darling wayne have simply run round him.

I cant think of a situation where i would lead with my elbow either. You tend to use your hands/shoulder to fend people off.

[i]So smacking someone in the head is ok in the work place?[/i]

Oh how I wish it was!

There is no context for it to be taken out of

Yes there is. It's not a 'workplace' like most others, in that it's a sport, on a playing field, what involves a certain amount of physical contact. ****ting a colleague in an office is nothing like a bit of handbaygs on a footy pitch. Nothing like. Comparing the two hypothetical situations is just silly.

Ice hockey is interesting, because aggression and violence are part of the game, it seems. You do get some shocking injuries though, in spite of all the armour.

(Wonders how some STWers would have coped in Roman times with gladiatorial arenas...)

Todays footballists are a bunch of sissy's, falling over at every opportunity, hissy-fits and foot stamping when they don't get their own way. Big girlies.

As the saying goes: "Boys play football, Men play Rugby"

As Rooney approaches, McCarthy appears to position/ready himself to bodycheck Rooney, to prevent him getting past. Doesn't warrant the elbow, but could be argued that McCarthy was about to foul Rooney, and Rooney decided to deal with it in his own inimitable way.

Ah so that makes it all ok.. 🙄

I'm just trying to explain things within their proper context.

You're failing but hey then you are trying to defend the indefensible.. 😉

Rooney committed a foul which he got away with. It was either nothing or a red card. It certainly wasnt nothing..

handbaygs

So you think that kind of thing is ok then?

Boys play football, Men play Rugby

Ive played both games & the histrionics in football would be better off on the stage.. The I cant recall seeing anything similar in rugby. Thats not saying it hasnt happened but rugby doesnt appear to get labelled with in the same sense.

If it was on the ball, I may have viewed it slightly differently, but it wasnt, so it was just thuggery.

Ah so that makes it all ok..

No. Where did I say it did? Hmm?

No. Where did I say it did? Hmm?

You didnt but you are trying to defend Rooney's actions so that suggests that you dont think its a problem..

You didnt but you are trying to defend Rooney's actions

Give me strength... 🙄

I'm not. I'm just placing them within the context they belong. I've already said he was out of order and should have bin sent off, and banned.

Of course, had you bothered to actually read what I wrote propply, you'd know this...

I prefer the eye gouges in rugger.

Oh come on elf - all your talk of passion etc isnt you trying to excuse his behaviour? Yes you said he should have been sent off but you dont think that you arent just even a little bit trying to defend his actions? You even tried to claim that McCarthy was somehow culpable as well!

"Rooney should have enough of a brain"
Post by Tim that made me laugh!

Oh come on elf - all your talk of passion etc isnt you trying to excuse his behaviour?

No. It's not. It's trying to [i]understand[/i] his behaviour.

🙄

I'm getting bored with this. Anyone else?

nacho - Member

"Rooney should have enough of a brain"
Post by Tim that made me laugh!

Too hopeful you think? 8)

Point is your stance could be interpreted as being defensive of Rooney. You wrote of it only being a little elbow & a touch of argy-bargy & bit of handbags. Thats what I object to. It was an act of thuggery (which we both agree), however you seem to have a different idea as to where the line is drawn.

Care to comment on tonight?

have two codes, like mens and womens lacrosse. One no contact for continental pussies, and one full contact for spud-faced northerners.

You obviously haven't tried to play a game against czechs then... vicious bastards the lot of 'em brought up on box lacrosse and razor blades...