This SNP rout…..

Define Scottish. I was born in Glasgow and have lived here all my life, but neither parent was born in Scotland.

Apologies for the obvious Troll. I was trying to get a rise.

I wasn’t aware that I was.

You appeared to be assuming I was some Southerner who had been to Inverness once on a coach trip.

After living and working in Scotland for a number of years, I feel I have quite a good understanding of Scottish culture.

I still don’t understand where you’re going with this argument. You seem to be saying that even though Scotland elected a pro-immigrant party we only did that because we have relatively few immigrants, that’ll change if we have lots more immigrants, therefore Scotland is becoming insular. Is that it in summary?

Point of order: It was the people who were resident in scotland and eligible to vote who decided which is not the same thing as the majority of Scots
It was not a vote of scots but of the people eligible to vote in Scotland. they are not the same thing.

What?
Why do you come out with nonsense like this?
Are you suggesting that there are more Scots living outside Scotland than within it?
Besides, if you don’t want to live in the UK why should you decide it’s future?
Or are you suggesting that all the Aussies, Canadians and Americans who are of Scottish descent counts as “Scots”?

Is that it in summary?

My point about UKIP was that it is a red herring to hold it up to show what a Workers Utopia you want to create.

As I have argued with you before, if Scotland got independence, I would expect quite a strong right wing party to come into existence.

Look at how strong the Freemasons in Scotland are, hardly a beacon of progressive thinking?

The tories already exist in Scotland dspite popular belief! 😆

As I have argued with you before, if Scotland got independence, I would expect quite a strong right wing party to come into existence.

We’ve already got several 😉

The makeup of Holyrood is much more balanced than the General Election result. And that’s a good thing. If we were independent I highly doubt I’d be voting SNP, I could vote Green and it would actually make a difference.

A lot of people in Scotland wanted their own parliament and they got one. The same with the referendum. They want more powers and they are getting them as well. Wales and Northern Ireland have devolved powers, London has devolved powers, Greater Manchester is also getting devolved powers. With all this increasing devolved power just how westminster dominated/centric is the UK government.
In England we also don’t have a English parliament so we are reliant on the Westminster system to represent our needs.
The SNP need to deliver now for the people of Scotland and will have more than enough power to do so.

fasternotfatter – Member

The SNP need to deliver now for the people of Scotland and will have more than enough power to do so.I don’t think anyone disagree’s with that.

If they don’t deliver I hope people don’t blame it on Westminster.

fasternotfatter – Member
If they don’t deliver I hope people don’t blame it on Westminster.

That depends on what westminster does.

Deliver what? There’s a Tory majority.

bencooper – Member
Deliver what? There’s a Tory majority.

The SNP need to work for their constituencies on a local level better than the previous labour candidates have.

They also need to take what ever powers the tories will give us and use them well.

They are in government in Scotland, so they aren’t powerless.

Indeed….they have no power in Westminster. All they can do is make a lot of noise!

The SNP need to work for their constituencies on a local level better than the previous labour candidates have.

Oh, absolutely, they need to be held to that. But we also need to recognise that the Tories can now do pretty much whatever they like. Theoretically they could abolish the Scottish parliament if they wanted to.

bencooper – Member
Oh, absolutely, they need to be held to that. But we also need to recognise that the Tories can now do pretty much whatever they like.

On that last part, the noise they make in westminster will be important, and not without influence.

The BS from salmond continues today. You have a parliament, increased developed powers (often unused), the benefits of being part of a Union, preferential treatment v-a-v other parts of the UK, and seats in Westminster that bear little resemblance to the % of votes cast. But no, this is not enough, the downtrodden need and deserve more.

Blimey, do the rUK need to eat your oatcakes too?

Hopefully coverage of the Holyrood elections will be kept local if this is the standard of debate.

The BS from salmond continues today. You have a parliament, increased developed powers (often unused), the benefits of being part of a Union, preferential treatment v-a-v other parts of the UK, and seats in Westminster that bear little resemblance to the % of votes cast. But no, this is not enough, the downtrodden need and deserve more.

Diddums. Was your vote for UKIP wasted then?

The SNP need to deliver now for the people of Scotland and will have more than enough power to do so.

But they will do this outside of the Westminster model as they swept the board in Scotland and have next to no say in UK policy…some may say that is why the Union is failing.

If they don’t deliver I hope people don’t blame it on Westminster.

They can only deliver with Westminsters consent so it really depends what cards they deal/grant them as to who will get the blame for anythign that happens

If for example Westminster slashes the Scotland budget by say 50% I dont think the SNP will be blamed for any failure to deliver.

Devolved power to Scotland is part of the Westminster Model. The union is only failing in the eyes of people who want to run Scotland down. Scotland is a great place and is doing very nicely, especially when compared to other parts of the UK or even other parts of England.
It has it’s own government with more powers coming and more than enough freedom to control the direction it goes in.
The Barnett formula is staying so there is no need to start your own project fear about the Scottish budget being slashed by 50%. 😉

bencooper – Member
Define Scottish. I was born in Glasgow and have lived here all my life, but neither parent was born in Scotland

English just like your dad 😛

Rockape63 – Member

Indeed….they have no power in Westminster. All they can do is make a lot of noise!

which will turn in to media headlines and more votes in the scottish elections 😉

But no, this is not enough, the downtrodden need and deserve more.

You don’t quite understand the principle of MPs representing the people who elected them, do you? Bless. Of course the SNP are going to fight for Scotland, that’s what we elected them for!

I know we used to send nice compliant Labour MPs to Westminster who would then do what their whips told them to do. Sorry, no more.

English just like your dad

**** off. 😛

teamhurtmore – Member
The BS from salmond continues today. You have a parliament, increased developed powers (often unused), the benefits of being part of a Union, preferential treatment v-a-v other parts of the UK, and seats in Westminster that bear little resemblance to the % of votes cast. But no, this is not enough, the downtrodden need and deserve more.

Blimey, do the rUK need to eat your oatcakes too?

Hopefully coverage of the Holyrood elections will be kept local if this is the standard of debate.cheer up, you got a majority in Westminster.

seosamh I think THM has failed to fully grasp the nature of “adversarial politics” which is a corner stone of the British political system. He obviously feels that all non-Tory MPs should simply fall into line with a Tory government.

Which is strange because he seems quite a bright lad in many ways.

You don’t quite understand the principle of MPs representing the people who elected them, do you? Bless. Of course the SNP are going to fight for Scotland, that’s what we elected them for!

I know we used to send nice compliant Labour MPs to Westminster who would then do what their whips told them to do. Sorry, no more.

In the same way as Scottish MPs will be held to task by Sturgeon, Swinney and Smug Face…… ie The SNP cult/dictatorship.

A lot of people seem to be getting MSPs and MPs confused!! Westminster will eat a lot of our “new” MPs for breakfast as it has done in the past 🙄

Scotland has a problem at Hollyrood. There has been years of wasted time on Devolution followed rapidly by more party time on this election and it starts all over again with next years Scottish elections! Not much time/effort being put into running the country by MSPs as far as I can see.

Now if they could deliver/reinstate the Paddy Line ie the rail link from Dumfries to Stranraer and get all the Irish ferry traffic off the A75 that would be a good start 💡 Alternatively a dual carriage way.

I agree Trekster. The SNP need to spend less time talking down Scotland and the UK and more time actually using the powers they have been given.

I still don’t understand how a party got near 50.9% of the seats with only near 36.9% of actual votes cast.

Well I do but I don’t want to.

Put another way over 63% of voters didn’t want the Tories in power

NB: my maths is dodgy .. using figures from top 3 search results on google .. i.e. not heavily researched

[apologies if all of this has been covered before]

Now if they could deliver/reinstate the Paddy Line ie the rail link from Dumfries to Stranraer and get all the Irish ferry traffic off the A75 that would be a good start Alternatively a dual carriage way.

Now then, remind who was it got rid of the Paddy Line? Tories per chance?

Now if they could deliver/reinstate the Paddy Line ie the rail link from Dumfries to Stranraer and get all the Irish ferry traffic off the A75 that would be a good start Alternatively a dual carriage way.

This would help the traffic flow in the area a huge amount, but the chances of a dual carriageway all the way to Stranraer? None, I’d of thought. Especially given how long it’s taken and will take to get the A9 done.

more time actually using the powers they have been given.

Apart from the deliberately useless tax powers, which powers haven’t they been using that you suggest they use?

I still don’t understand how a party got near 50.9% of the seats with only near 36.9% of actual votes cast. Well I do but I don’t want to. Put another way over 63% of voters didn’t want the Tories in power

1997 Labour won 43.2% of votes and 63% of seats
2001 Labour won 40.7% votes and 62% seats
2005 Labour won 35.2% votes and 55% seats
2010 Conservatives won 36.1% of votes and 47% seats

As far as I am concerned, anyone turning round now and crying crocodile tears that the system is unfair because the Tories won this time can get stuffed, they weren’t complaining last time!

You can always look at it another way – this year we have seen a combined ‘right wing’ vote (Tory 36.9 UKIP 12.6 and DUP/UUP 1%) of 50.5% take a total of 52% of seats!

Apart from the deliberately useless tax powers, which powers haven’t they been using that you suggest they use?

They have been devoting all of their time and attention to splitting up the UK. It is time for them to actually get on with running Scotland!

They have been devoting all of their time and attention to splitting up the UK. It is time for them to actually get on with running Scotland!

So, there’s no powers that you think they should of been using, but haven’t been. Great.

You can look on it as splitting up the UK if you like, or just removing Scotland from it, but either way, it was a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum, and they did. They’ve been implementing that stuff they said they would. Hard to complain too much about that.

ernie_lynch – Member
Which is strange because he seems quite a bright lad in many ways.

For a guy who likes to throw “patronising” accusations around, that is quite amusing!!!! Almost a classic. 😉

They have been devoting all of their time and attention to splitting up the UK. It is time for them to actually get on with running Scotland!

That the SNP has a majority in th Scottish Parliament in a system specifically designed to stop majority governments and for them to return 56 from 59 MPs in Scotland suggests that the people who have the ability to vote for the SNP actually think they’re doing a good job of running the country. To be fair though, there isn’t much opposition at the moment.

I can do patronising THM. I would have expected a smart bloke like you to have figured that out. Perhaps I over estimated you?

But anyway, are you still confused about what “adversarial politics” actually involves ?

If you can clear up the confusion you might be able to understand why Alex Salmond takes a confrontational attitude towards a Tory government, and it won’t come as such a surprise to you 💡

ninfan – Member

As far as I am concerned, anyone turning round now and crying crocodile tears that the system is unfair because the Tories won this time can get stuffed, they weren’t complaining last time!

I bloody was, and so were lots of other people. FPTP is shit regardless of whether you’re currently benefitting from it. This time, the party I like the least suffered most from it, and the party I voted for gained the second most from it (*), I’m still against it.

(* you might say the SNP gained the most from it, mathematically, but the Tories gained a majority government)

Ah, you’d have preferred a Con/UKIP/DUP coalition? 😉

On which thought, I’ve checked back and this election is the first since 1959 where Labour and the Liberals (or their descendants) combined haven’t got more than 50% of the popular vote – obviously even adding on SNP to the “coalition” wouldn’t get them there.

aracer – Member

Ah, you’d have preferred a Con/UKIP/DUP coalition?

Absolutely- I’d prefer a democratic result even if it’s one I don’t like. Though, it doesn’t follow that would be the outcome- fptp distorts voting greatly. But yes, a coalition like that wouldn’t have the singlemindedness and capability that the tories will have for the next while, or the stability or the sense of divine right

ernie_lynch – Member
I can do patronising THM.

Indeed.