This SNP rout…..

The Scots are up to their necks in it and are sinking fast but don’t realise it. Ernie’s analysis earlier is correct. Cameron will plow ahead with fiscal control by the Scots pulling up the money drawbridge behind him. He’ll get what he wants, an end to Scottish whinging, a lack of meaningful influence from Scottish MPs and none of the cost or political fallout from an actual separation.

As for comments about English insecurities and anger, I think most English people were quite agnostic if that’s the right word before the referendum, since then we seem to have had this express train of anti English sentiment and seperatist talk from some of the Scots. I don’t know about Scotlands lion roaring, I think the English lion has just had it’s tail pulled, woken up and is likely to bite.

It’s going to be an interresting few years, in the meantime the Sottish sideshow could do with going on the back burner. The real crisis looming is the potential for Cameron to muck up the EU referendum, if he gets that wrong and we come out we’ll all go down together regardless.

Part of the SNP’s argument for independence was that they would work to create a fairer society. I agree with that and I’d happily pay more tax to help make it happen. However, I voted no because there were too many unanswered questions and I doubted their ability to deliver what they promised.

I voted for them in the GE because I still agree with the notion of a fairer society. I believe the SNP will strive for that even within the union if only because it will help to win people over to the notion that Scotland can work as an independent nation. They’ve been handed a golden opportunity by the Scottish electorate – Show us what you can do SNP it’s up to you now.

I don’t know about Scotlands lion roaring, I think the English lion has just had it’s tail pulled, woken up and is likely to bite.

Looks more like two Chihuahas squabbling over some loose kibble to me

That look

Ahh yes, just what our governance could do with. More contempt.

since then we seem to have had this express train of anti English sentiment and seperatist talk from some of the Scots.

Is it really your claim that this electoral campaign was marked by anti english rheotric rather than anti – SNP/Scottish rhetoric 😯
I dont know whether to laugh or cry when I read/hear yet another english person being anti scottish whilst claiming that it is the other side who are doing it 😕
The media certainly did a good job of selling fear to the English and convincing you that the SNP hate you.
Which way will they try and spread the fear in an EU election as they sure as hell dont feed facts to us. [ sounding a bit JHJ there]

Interesting posts, enjoyed reading those on a lazy Saturday morning.

I think the Tories and UKIP are very pro UK, pro the Union. Labour too in many ways hence their conflict in Scotland. The anti SNP feeling comes from the SNP being a nationalist party campaigning to end that union. If the Tories where anti Scotland they would t be sending £8bn a year North

One of my colleagues picked up on something Cameron said, he talked not just about the Smith commission powers but fiscal control or a degree of. Cameron is clearly looking for English powers to match those devolved to Scotland, this makes perfect sense and will be very popular. What I foresee is Scotland being handed more powers, for example the ability to income tax rates and thresholds (ie switch points for different rates) but not personal allowance or corporate tax rates. England will then get the same. This will really put the SNP in a difficult spot as they will have the ability to set the top rate of tax at 50% and move other rates and bands. It’s a trap they cannot escape and will challenge them to match their rhetoric with action. The SNP will whine and whine but do little, a 50% band will just see behavioural changes with top brass either moving over the border for all/part of a year or corporate tax planning which reduces income payable in Scotland.

History will be very kind to Cameron who has played a blinder, he gave up very little to the Lib Dems to get into power in 2010. The result of which is that the Lib Dems have been crushed with most of their seats falling to Tories. The referendum led to more powers for Scotland but England (Wales and NI) will get the same which is very significant. Labour have been crushed in Scotland, the Tories had little to lose or gain there in terms of seats. The only way the SNP could hurt the Tories was if they formed a coalition at Westminster and that’s not how it’s played out. The SNP will strengthen their position in Scotland as the a to Tory rhetoric will be ratcheted up funded by the £8m in salaries and expenses they now have.

ernie_lynch – Member
You appear to have completely missed my point. I need to work on making myself clearer.

I understand your point fine, I just don’t care about the union any longer! Therefore I don’t see the solutions coming from London.

As far as I’m concerned England and Scotland politely just stuck 2 fingers up at each other the other day!

I think the Tories and UKIP are very pro UK, pro the Union.

I think they’ve very pro-England, which isn’t quite the same thing.

all I’m going to say on the subject is this.

As a Scottish person living in Scotland the bollocks spouted about anti-English this and that is complete nonsense.

The mainstream media are what spouts this pish. I stopped buying newspapers many years ago as it’s nowt but lies in the main.

The old saying of don’t believe what you read in the papers is certainly true here. Unfortunately there’s nothing I can do to stop this except not buy the papers etc, so I don’t.

Oh! and the whole thign about ending the Union. The only people talking about this are every other party except the SNP! It’s a scaremongering load of shite!
The SNP right now are wanting to do the best they can for the people of Scotland. And I hope they do. I see nothing wrong with that.

So. No anti-English nonsense. But I very much do despise the whole Westminster thing. But hey, maybe one day it will change?

Have a good day everyone.

Ben, go and read the manifestos and look which one frames the whole debate around an insular focus!! Have you also forgotten that most of your countrymen believe in the union and we have a PM talking the same story now. At some point, the nats really need to talk straight otherwise you will be getting very dizzy.

The gap between what our government spends and receives is among the highest in the advanced world and this gets spun how exactly? Better that Shane Warne at his best. We will be exporting more than we import next?

Ben the SNP are clever with their language, they speak of Wesminster mismanagement and elite’s, they speak of despising the Tories. To those listening it’s anti English whether or not the SNP argue otherwise. It’s like Galloway declaring Bradofrd and Isreal Free Zone, what people hear and interpret is free of Jews. Galloway absolutely knows that. When Salmond talks he speaks not of the SNP lion roaring but of Scotland, the inference is very clear that when he speaks of Wesminster and the Tories he is speaking of England.The SNP know exactly what they are doing in this regard.

They’ve been handed a golden opportunity by the Scottish electorate – Show us what you can do SNP it’s up to you now.

Indeed. Delivery time not excuse time and with less whining preferably. With responsibility comes accountability.

To those listening it’s anti English

Only if they’re stupid. Many areas of the north of England have similar issues with feeling abandoned by London-centric, right wing politics by both the red and blue flavours of Tory. Unfortunately it’s current only north of the border that there is an alternative to vote for.

She has done well since the Krankies split.

To those listening it’s anti English

Only if you are a London dwelling tory voting elite 😯

Or frankkly a tim nice but dim. what a daft thing to say.
You are the RW media and I claim my phone tapping

Most people in the North [ from all parties] would agree with that view of that their London .

when he speaks of Wesminster and the Tories he is speaking of England

You are either paranoid or delusional* here as they mean different things.
Westminster and the Tories are quite clearly a separate concept from england. I have no idea why you have decided that the phrases are synonyms. its probably the same reason you think israel means Jew ie you are just wrong.

Out of interest do you think the tory message about legitimacy was anti scottish?
When they said the SNP did they mean all of scotland
etc

Daft daft argument even by your standards

* forgive me for the harshness and not meant as an insult [ i struggled to convey how much i disagreed and that worked] but I dont see how you can argue westminster tory = england Its nonsensical in the extreme.

With regards to the RW conspiracy in London, is London more or less labour now than 48 hours ago?

er what that says about the English psyche. England seems to be becoming a scared and angry place, turning more and more in on itself. Depressing to watch.

You seem to have England and Scotland mixed up

From what I saw, the party of fear and anger was UKIP. You might want to have a look at how UKIP did in Scotland as opposed to Scotland.

Only if you are a London dwelling tory voting elite

London has mostly Labour MPs

With regards to the RW conspiracy in London, is London more or less labour now than 48 hours ago?

Labour is a RW party.

We’ll according to Balls (remember him?) it’s “a centre, centre left party” whatever that is.

SNP in practice is not a LW party indeed less than the Labs. So there may be some hangover coming.

We’ll according to Balls (remember him?) it’s “a centre, centre left party” whatever that is.

I think he meant “Tory lite”

Ben the SNP are clever with their language, they speak of Wesminster mismanagement and elite’s, they speak of despising the Tories. To those listening it’s anti English

When Salmond talks he speaks not of the SNP lion roaring but of Scotland, the inference is very clear that when he speaks of Westminster and the Tories he is speaking of England.

Drivel. It’s interesting that you interpret it as such, but drivel never the less.

As others have pointed out this has nothing to do with anti English or anti any other member of the Union.

The SNP are obviously campaigning for Scotland only (clue is in the S in SNP), however its not a case of campaigning for powers at the expense of the rest of the Union. Instead hopefully all the members including England will have the opportunity to benefit from increased local powers.

it’s “a centre, centre left party” whatever that is.

Its not the most complicated comprehension test … unless Precott said it 😉

Which bit of this is difficult to understand

At this election, we have the opportunity to shake up the out of touch Westminster system so that it serves Scotland better. A vote for the SNP on May 7th is a vote for MPs who will always stand up for Scotland’s best interests

??

None of it is any more complicated than centre or centre left

Is someone disputing the SNP want to put Scotland first ?

Are you arguing this automatically makes them anti -english?

We all put our families first does this means we are anti everyone elses family?

The dreaded Westminster that allowed the establishment of a Scottish parliament and also a referendum on Scottish independence. What is really so wrong about Westminster?

fasternotfatter – Member
The dreaded Westminster that allowed the establishment of a Scottish parliament and also a referendum on Scottish independence. What is really so wrong about Westminster?

Extreme City of London bias.

Gawd bless you be thanking you kindly sir for your generosity

So your reply to they rule and have to much power is to show that they rule from Westminster and only they can grant powers to scotland

Some times I just love the unintentional satire/irony of the internet 😆

Thanks for that

they rule from Westminster and only they can grant powers to scotland

Who else do you think should be able to grant powers to Scotland?

A.G. Barr? Jimmy Crankie? Sean Connery?

The clue is in the name. It’s a Nationalist party. They want more for Scotland. There is only a finite amount of resource, so therefore if they get more, rUK will have less.

From what I saw, the party of fear and anger was UKIP. You might want to have a look at how UKIP did in Scotland as opposed to Scotland.

Presuming you mean England in there somewhere, then yes – UKIP did depressingly well in this election, getting 12.5% of the popular vote. In Scotland it was about 1/10th of that*.

*Can’t find the exact figure, the BBC have them under “other” who got 2.5% in total.

JY do you mean Westminster grants powers in accordance with the current system of government that applies to the whole of the UK that defines the relationship between the UK government and devolved governments and executives? Of course they do don’t they? 🙄

That is what the people of Scotland voted for when they voted to remain part of the UK. The majority of Scots want to remain part of the Westminster system.

Scotland vote share
SNP 50.0%
LAB 24.3%
CON 14.9%
LD 7.5%
UKIP 1.6%
GRN 1.3%

There is only a finite amount of resource

No, there isn’t – this is the lie at the heart of the whole austerity agenda, that there’s only so much money to go around. It’s like those people who compare the national debt to a credit card.

The SNP’s plan was to grow the economy for everyone, with some more public spending. It worked for Roosevelt with the New Deal. Whether it would work for the UK is debatable of course, but the idea that the pot of money (which doesn’t exist anyway) is only a fixed size fuels the selfish nature of this debate.

That is what the people of Scotland voted for when they voted to remain part of the UK. The majority of Scots want to remain part of the Westminster system.

Last year they did. Now? Debatable. After another 5 years of Tory government? Probably quite unlikely.

Scotland vote share
SNP 50.0%
LAB 24.3%
CON 14.9%
LD 7.5%
UKIP 1.6%
GRN 1.3%

Thanks for finding that – so UKIP did a fraction better than my guess 😉

UKIP took 1.6% of the vote in scotland.

So what?

A lot of UKIP’s support comes from, perceived or otherwise, the problem with mass immigration and the loss of “native” British culture.

As Scotland has no problem with mass immigration and their cultural identity has only become stronger in the last 20 years, why would UKIP achieve much support there?

their cultural identity has only become stronger in the last 20 years

Out of interest, what do you think that cultural identity is? Because it’s not tartan, bagpipes, och-aye-the-noo and all that stuff. It’s certainly not based on where you were born.

Out of interest, what do you think that cultural identity is? Because it’s not tartan, bagpipes, och-aye-the-noo and all that stuff. It’s certainly not based on where you were born.

No need to be so patronising.

As the vast majority live in the Central Belt, I would say there is a strong, post industrial society, that has seen massive problems and change in the last 30 years. There is also a very strong Celtic influence which puts a different slant on it from what you would find in similar areas in the NE or NW of England.

Am I correct, in that you are not actually Scottish?

No need to be so patronising.

I wasn’t aware that I was. The stuff I listed was what often comes up when discussing Scottish culture.

Am I correct, in that you are not actually Scottish?

Define Scottish. I was born in Glasgow and have lived here all my life, but neither parent was born in Scotland.

A lot of UKIP’s support comes from, perceived or otherwise, the problem with mass immigration and the loss of “native” British culture.

English culture surely.

Yah lets move the goalposts and discuss that instead

That is what the people of Scotland voted for when they voted to remain part of the UK. The majority of Scots want to remain part of the Westminster system.

Point of order: It was the people who were resident in scotland and eligible to vote who decided which is not the same thing as the majority of Scots
It was not a vote of scots but of the people eligible to vote in Scotland. they are not the same thing.

Your broad point is true in that they did vote to remain in the union but no one had disputed that and it seems ot have no relevance to the question of whether the UK parliament is westminster dominated/centric.