This SNP rout…..

^^^ This – it was an opportunist vote for the SNP based on having influence in
a coalition government – or vote partnership.

I disagree. Sure the SNP would of had lot more influence if in any sort of coalition or supply and confidence agreement, but the polls were showing strong SNP support before that sort of chat existed. I put it down mainly to a huge disaffection with what the Labour party has become and how it’s viewed in Scotland. That the LibDems screwing themselves over.

This guy speaks a lot of sense:

It wasn’t nationalism. They barely campaigned on it. Referendum and independence were only in the debate because it is often all the English establishment seems to be able to see.

The wholesale success of an anti-austerity, anti-Trident, pro fiscal autonomy campaign – it is sometimes as if the SNP never mentioned it.

But these campaign issues are what Scots went for in a droves as the SNP drilled into the Labour and LibDem votes from Jo Grimond country in the northern isles to the old red heartlands of the central belt.

They wanted a “left” alternative, the SNP use the word “progressive”. It is that simple.

In England they do not.

— http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/english-politicians-understand-scotland-snp/9573

I agree that Labour did not provide an alternative that was palatable to the
Scottish people – The point about SNP policies keeping nationalism and the exit
low profile is exactly the tactic that worked – but I still do not see what they can deliver in opposition – who represents the Scottish in government ?

who represents the Scottish in government ?

No one. Just the same as if Scotland has voted Labour instead.

Except the end result of voting in the SNP was that they got the opposite of an anti trident, anti austerity government. Have a look at the snp manifesto, the current government is offering the exact opposite which means the SNP voters have nothing to be happy about, except the prospect of another indy ref, except they no longer have the means to push it through parliament. The sad thing is that a lot of non SNP voters voted SNP this time in an attempt to see a more progressive approach, sadly the failure of Labour has meant the opposite.

With Miliband out, Labour cannot repeat such a pitiful campaign and will probably spend the next five years building a party people in Scotland can actually vote for again, then it’s game over SNP.

They had all the cards on their side last year, nationalist support is at its strongest after a big recession but big eck was right, it’s settled for a generation and not because they don’t want another referendum.

Except the end result of voting in the SNP was that they got the opposite of an anti trident, anti austerity government.

You mean they voted for what they believed in and established a strong opposition to represent those views in parliament?

Why’s that bad again?

Bear in mind the other option was to vote “tactically” for a party they didn’t believe in who didn’t represent their views and didn’t win a majority.

sadly the failure of Labour has meant the opposite.

And that’s the crux of the matter. As usual the government is determined (almost entirely) by how England votes. England seems to want a a centre right or right wing government and that’s what they got. Labour moving back to the left might help them regain seat in Scotland but I can’t see it helping anywhere else.

Except the end result of voting in the SNP was that they got the opposite of an anti trident, anti austerity government.

Fantastic result for the SNP independence campaign.

established a strong opposition to represent those views in parliament

Let’s see how that pans out. As I mentioned before they are about as strong as the lib dems in opposition to Labour in 2005. Hardly a power house.

it should be union or no union. If the scots leave, dissolve the lot. We all want different things anyway (look at the result), the Welsh and scots want to govern themselves. Just get it over with.

Ive been of that belief for a while now wrecker.

@grahamS in what way have they established a “strong opposition”? Current Labour are closer aligned to the tories, so the SNP will remain an irrelevance. Not saying its right, but just confused about why people think its such a good thing for the SNP!

@epicsteve how is this good for the independence campaign? David Cameron has come out and said he’ll deliver Devomax, there’s no way of getting a referendum through parliament for at least 5 years, and the SNP still haven’t shown how they can get higher than 38% of the electorate to vote for either them or independence (its the people of Scotland’s mandate remember). The true test of the SNP popularity will be the Holyrood elections next year.

…they are about as strong as the lib dems in opposition to Labour in 2005. Hardly a power house.

True, but the SNP have one distinct advantage: spines. 🙂

(Also bear in mind that they can always point to reforms and changes in Scotland).

@grahamS in what way have they established a “strong opposition”?

Because any way you cut it, they now hold 56 seats, which is enough to sway the voting on any contentious bill.

Plus of course they are something fresh, a new story, so the media will be very interested in what they have to say.

They will be as toothless as the liberals were with that number of seats. Cameron will offer some fiscal autonomy which they will screw up (just look at their record in power) and the shine may quickly come off the dream machine that have been pedalling.

the Welsh…. want to govern themselves.

No, we really don’t. Wales only has 3 nationalist MPs. We’d be stuffed without all your lovely English tax payers.

Because any way you cut it, they now hold 56 seats, which is enough to sway the voting on any contentious bill.

That would be nice, but I disagree, any time there’s a contentious bill that the SNP could influence you’ll hear that Tory whip cracking from up in Shetland.

Big Eck will get some TV time for a few months until the media realise that they’re a total irrelevance and then there’ll be nothing from them for a few years.

You know somethings not right when theres a party on the streets of Glasgow to celebrate an election where the tories won, the reality will hit home by the end of the year.

People complain about Two Party Politics, but give them a third (or fourth?) party and they complain about that too.

I’m of the view that having more parties, and more differing views, represented in parliament is a good thing.

Realistically what other option was there hagi?

We should have all voted Tory, that way we’d have won.

With Miliband out, Labour cannot repeat such a pitiful campaign and will probably spend the next five years building a party people in Scotland can actually vote for again, then it’s game over SNP.

PMSL – Labour will repeat the mistakes because the arrogance of Westmonster will keep them concentrating on focus groups and marketing and not the electorate

With Miliband out, Labour cannot repeat such a pitiful campaign and will probably spend the next five years building a party people in Scotland can actually vote for again, then it’s game over SNP.

Milliband might be out but Murphy is staying on.

I’m in total agreement with you GrahamS, FPTP sucks and needs replaced. Hopefully this kicks the erse of politics and gains some traction for that to happen. But its not a time for anyone to celebrate or be happy (unless you happen to be a Tory), especially not the SNP, as this is possibly the worst outcome for them!

No one. Just the same as if Scotland has voted Labour instead.

That`s what I do not agree with – not because of the outcome/numbers

But because of the run up to the election – the influence of the polls and media speculating about a coalition outcome with SNP in influence gave the impression of a turbulent and unstable adversarial coalition/alliance
– something the voters south of the border were driven to vote against by choosing Ukip/Conservative. (LibDem outcasts due to coalition sacrifice)
I just feel that Scotland is now a one part state with no government influence.
I suppose its up to the SNP to deliver now .

something the voters south of the border were driven to vote against by choosing Ukip/Conservative.

If Labour and ex-LibDem voters in the south were so frightened of a coalition with the SNP that they’d rather vote Tory then they only have themselves to blame!

Trying to put that blame on the SNP is bizarre.

Do you want multi-party politics or not?

er -yes – would be nice in Scotland??

Hasn’t Scotland just saved itself from massive welfare cuts. Surely benefits will be devolved to Scots gov before Tories drop the axe across UK else there will be no Tory MSP come 2016?

er -yes – would be nice in Scotland??

Something like this you mean?

I believe Milliband had a fairly left wing agenda when he was made party leader. He would IMO have been better sticking to anti austerity policies with the idea of Britain spending it’s way out of recession; investment in jobs, industry + services, more jobs, more tax receipts etc…Britain does stand alone a bit in the world with the belief that cutting spending is going to improve your economy. Instead, Ed tried to be the party that cut spending but in a “nicer” way than the Tories.
Scottish voters could vote for a party that has competent politicians with credible left wing intentions. I don’t get any sense of a “surge in nationalism” in Scotland, just people fed up with 36 years of Adam Smith Institute economics.

Hasn’t Scotland just saved itself from massive welfare cuts. Surely benefits will be devolved to Scots gov before Tories drop the axe across UK else there will be no Tory MSP come 2016?

Questionable – the beauty for the Scots government, as we heard in the independence campaign, is that the current arrangement lets them take the credit for every pound spent, and blame every ounce of austerity on Westminster as owners of the magic money tree. That’s why they have never used their own tax raising powers (which would become a tartan tax overnight)

If they are handed fiscal independence, then they have to raise their own money, and every pound spent becomes another pound they have to raise in taxes from the good people of Scotland.

People hate their elected politicians imposing austerity – They hate them imposing tax rises even more.

The day Scottish income tax rates are a penny higher than their English neighbours, the SNP’s advantage is gone!

I am not blaming the SNP – I blame the media and the electorate – they always get it wrong!
Lets see what the SNP deliver for all of us.

They hate them imposing tax rises even more.

There’s no proof of that. As soon as they got back in power after the 2010 general election the Tories promptly put up VAT, very little fuss was created.

That’s why they have never used their own tax raising powers

they have never used them because they have to increase them across the board they cannot just tax the rich or adjust the threshold.
if they increase the top rate by 10 p then they also have to increase the bottom rate and middle rates by 10p
You know this as we have done it before so I am not sure why you have repeated it. They are not free to set tax as they please.

Having been proved wrong, he will fail to respond to your reply but will no doubt bring it up, erroneously, again at a later date.

Yes yes, Junky, they can go on forever giving us excuses and justifications of why it was impossible

But we all know the political reality and cost for any party responsible for imposing a tartan tax!

I have followed this thread with some interest, the thing I like about this forum is you get a very wide ranging view on subjects from all corners/opinions and it tends to be (most of the time) a fairly balanced and sensible take on stuff. However the problem we now have (and it’s a big f**king problem) is that the Labour Party is not going to form a government for a long time (please note I am a socialist at heart but could not vote for the current labour party as they are simply incompetent Tories) so we will have a Tory government in power for a very long time (don’t whine on about small majorities – one seat is enough to swing a vote) this means if you are poor, unemployed or live in certain regions (or work in the public sector) you are f**ked – Osbourne has a big overdraft to sort out and he and his party are not going to

We’re so lucky in Scotland to have a credible left of centre party.

I expect that left leaning people in the rest of the UK are pretty envious of that.

I’d rather we didn’t have a left or right of anything party. I’d rather have democratically elected administrators than politicians.

We should be governed by technical competence in delivering the best results for society. Not cunty politics.

What you speak of piemonster is not people.

ernie_lynch – Member
They hate them imposing tax rises even more.
There’s no proof of that. As soon as they got back in power after the 2010 general election the Tories promptly put up VAT, very little fuss was created.

there is also tax bands to consider, as soon as you start changing and adjusting bands etc, it becomes difficult to hold straight comparisons.

Junkyard – lazarus
That’s why they have never used their own tax raising powers

they have never used them because they have to increase them across the board they cannot just tax the rich or adjust the threshold.
if they increase the top rate by 10 p then they also have to increase the bottom rate and middle rates by 10p
You know this as we have done it before so I am not sure why you have repeated it. They are not free to set tax as they please.There’s also never been any mechinism to collect the extra tax separately, I think it’s changing now, but hmrc hasn’t had the separate databases to be able to spilt the extra cash collected and it would all just go into uk coffers. As far as I remember, it was something like that anyhow.