This SNP rout…..

Spondoolick’s have more credibility than AS’s plan had 😉

My point/logic on Labour voters is that they resent the SNP characterising them as siding with the Tories and the fact the SNP is a direct threat to them electorially. A Labour voter in the UK does care about that. So the SNP is unpopular with them.

Borrowed words but its how I feel.

Am i alone in thinking it’s not great the snp has 56 seats? Does one party represent the views of everyone in Scotland apart from shetlanders, orcadians and a few borderers? The snp won 50% of the vote on a 71% turnout. Half of voters didn’t vote for them and another 30% didn’t vote at all. That’s not democratic, and incidentally, it’s the same argument used by yes campaigners – that in scotland you never get the uk government you vote for. Half of scots are now represented in Westminster by a party they didn’t vote for. I’m not blaming the snp – they can only work with the system they’ve got – rather it is the ineptitude of the other parties in Scotland to present any kind of viable alternative that’s worrying. This result in Scotland and across the uk shows there is an urgent need for electoral reform – the sooner we get pr the better.

Either that or there needs to be one Scottish Unionist party to counter the SNP. Then it might be a fair competition.

On a related note, could a Leftist English Nationalist Party arise from the ashes of what was Labour?
Many I spoke to during indyref wanted Scotland to leave, several I have chatted to online today have mentioned that its time the English left concentrates on England.
Can a National Party in England be such without being hard right?
All the fascist/far right parties are also Unionists aren’t they?

Good quote TP.

This result in Scotland and across the uk shows there is an urgent need for electoral reform – the sooner we get pr the better.

Don’t hold your breath, given the Tories got a majority on 37% of the vote I can’t really see them pushing for PR any time soon.

I’m all for PR. Parties will emerge that closer represent people views allowing a greater range of opinion that reflects the population.

There’s the argument that the likes of UKIP will gain alot of seats, but that’s a short term view, and I’m very much of the view that if you give them enough rope.. I think the change we would see over the longer term would be well worth it.

btw the scottish election next year will be interesting to see how strong SNP support is. Personally, I won’t be voting for them.

PR and federalisation. Something along the lines of.
Scotland, Wale, NI, Northumbria, Mercia, East Anglia, Wessex, Cornwall+Deven + Somersetish. Exact boarders would need to be tweaked to even up population sizes a little.

After Scamerons visit to the Queen. He will put his energies into a policy, to make another referendum illegal.
On his list of priorities, it will be high.

chrissyharding – Member
After Scamerons visit to the Queen. He will put his energies into a policy, to make another referendum illegal.
On his list of priorities, it will be high.

What’s the point in that? It’s already illegal.

The SNP are pro-PR incidentally (STV specifically). Electorally it’s voting for Christmas but not everything has to be about self-interest.

BigButSlimmerBloke – Member

The currency will be called the spondoolick

It’ll be called the Tillicoultry. Because it’s near Stirling.

😆

😆
Poor common ‘tater!

How would a Federal UK work?
Lets assume for a moment that the House of Commons reverts back to being the English Parliament, and that the House of Lords is converted into a Federal overseer with the ability to scrutinize the Parliaments and prevent them from passing laws that would be unfair to the other Nations, and with responsibility for things like national defence, foreign policy etc.
So, we have Senators, but the disparity in population sizes would either mean that English people are under represented or that England’s Senators would dominate the Senate (for want of a better term) and we all go round these circles again.

How would it work? Could it work?

Not sure why the SNP supporters are so happy? They’re going to be nothing more than a novelty in Westminster, totally unable to enact influence on any of their policies. This is the annoying thing with party politics, essentially everyone in Scotland is now left with a local mp with no ability to do anything beneficial for their constituency. I don’t see that result in anything other than a massive loss for the people of Scotland.

The SNP are pro-PR incidentally (STV specifically)

Let’s see if they shift now they have 95% of the seats

@hagi, yes they will be a novelty but they will get lots of airtime and the £7m pa I guesstimated and as the MPs won’t have a lot to do in Westmister they can work on their own/SNP pet projects. If/when they lose their seats they’ll get a £60k re-settlement payment too.

@Hagi- Would have been the exact same if we’d voted Labour, is the thing. The difference is between having the MP you want, instead of tactically voting for the one you don’t and STILL getting a tory government.

But yes, it is a massive problem of this system and many others.

jambalaya – Member

Let’s see if they shift now they have 95% of the seats

They were still pushing for it a couple of days ago, long after it became apparent that they were going to take most of Scotland. So apparently not.

@Northwind we’ve been round this one many times during the referendum thread but you had Labour governments for 13 years with Scots in senior positions. Pretty representative I’d say. It’s not “your turn” now.

That doesn’t really seem to be in response to my post at all Jamba, not sure what you’re getting at. It’s not an SNP or Scotland problem, it’s a winner takes all problem- the party with 51% of the seats can have 100% of the power. Made worse with FPTP of course but it’s similiarly an issue in the Scottish parliament. (just because my guys are the beneficiaries there doesn’t mean I don’t see a problem)

It’s a hot topic in the states too and I’m pretty sure that’s not got anything to do with the SNP

Not sure why the SNP supporters are so happy?

Two reasons:
1) A historic high for them in the Westminster results
2) Their best possible Westminster result in their pursuit of independence.

Remember that what the SNP need isn’t power in Westminster – what they need is to be able to say that Westminster doesn’t care about Scotland.

So, we have Senators, but the disparity in population sizes would either mean that English people are under represented or that England’s Senators would dominate the Senate (for want of a better term) and we all go round these circles again.

How would it work? Could it work?
Well it wouldn’t be split on current national boundaries, so no, you wouldn’t have English Senators.
You’d more likely have Scottish Senators, Welsh Senators, West Country Senators, London Senators, East Anglian Senators, Yorkshire Senators, …

and the numbers for each region broadly similar, plus or minus a few perhaps based on population differences.

Whether those senators are US style, or German style (forced to vote en bloc) is a matter of debate.

Remember that what the SNP need isn’t power in Westminster – what they need is to be able to say that Westminster doesn’t care about Scotland.

@epic what the SNP need is Westminster to agree to a referendum and for it to be binding. Power can give them that or a PM daft enough, once bitten twice shy.

So, we have Senators, but the disparity in population sizes would either mean that English people are under represented or that England’s Senators would dominate the Senate (for want of a better term) and we all go round these circles again.
How would it work? Could it work?

You would not have England as one group. Part of the problem with UK politics atm is IMO that it is a diverse country in small area but run largely to be as if it is not. I proposed roughly splitting along old kingdom lines as it give the traditionalists something to like but I think the boarders would need to be tweaked to even up populations. County counsels are too small and just up playing around the edge then people end up voting in national elections on local issues. Poor separation of issues. Give regional governance with tax raising powers and let people who know the region tweak things offer local tax breaks for some industries e.t.c

@northwind, totally agree with you. My confusion is why the SNP supporters are so happy, they’ve achieved nothing. A hung parliament with them as kingmakers was the only real winner. I suspect as mentioned earlier there was a lot of tactical voting down south to prevent that scenario as the difference between the big two was so marginal anyway.

cynic-al – Member
I struggle to accept that a significant no. of SNP voters are no voters, given they are the only yes party with a chance.

I think that’s what happened where we are (borders – Tweeddale, etc. Constituency). I think we had one if the highest (if not the highest) percentage of no votes in the referendum, and it’s a historically Tory seat. However, the Tory incumbent only won by around 1000 votes this time I think. I think you have a lot of people who want to see Scotland have more representation/control of its destiny, but don’t want to split from the UK. As there was a no vote, these people now think it’s ‘safe’ to vote SNP for more devolution, etc. But with little immediate risk of independence.

y confusion is why the SNP supporters are so happy, they’ve achieved nothing.

They’re a good bit closer to independence than they would have been if they’d won the same number of seats but were in a coalition with Labour. I’d say we’re closer to independence for Scotland at the moment than we’ve been in living memory.

The sensible thing for the Tories to do is deliver devo-max (which it sounds like they might do) to shutdown the independence question. Even then the SNP do well out of it as they get more power than ever before.

Remember how the day after the referendum people were saying that independence was finished and all that happened was the SNP strengthened. People are saying today that the SNP have lots of MPs but no power – They have a mandate with which to beat to Tories and will only continue to get stronger.

I have a question – if people blame all of the world’s ills on the SNP – why are people voting for them in ever increasing numbers. Don’t underestimate the SNP. They are wily beasts.

Indeed for Scotland to stay in the EU surely it would need to be independent from the rest of the UK?

No they are in a perfect trap, go independent and you leave the EU and have to apply to join, UK votes to leave and they leave the EU, then vote for independence and if they get that have to apply to join the EU

either way you leave the EU unless the UK votes to stay in

I have a question – if people blame all of the world’s ills on the SNP – why are people voting for them in ever increasing numbers. Don’t underestimate the SNP. They are wily beasts

all the people who said they were going to leave the UK on a No vote decided to stay? 😉

has that comedian left for Vienna yet?

I also remember how the day after the referendum people were emigrating to Australia…

I also remember how the day after the referendum people were emigrating to Australia…

I’d recommend Canada. Much better biking than Australia and weather closer to our native land. At the moment I’d much rather be here than in the UK.

ah, I should perhaps put my comment in context WNB

wanmankylung – Member
That’s the plan. Professional registration has been obtained, visa has been applied for and job is just about sealed. Melbourne is my destination – have more family there than what I have here. Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job. Living costs will be comparable.

Remember that what the SNP need isn’t power in Westminster – what they need is to be able to say that Westminster doesn’t care about Scotland.

Probably showing my total lack of political knowledge but are the new SNP MPs now not representing the Westminster/UK parly and therefore representing the constituents who voted them to do so rather than dancing to Hollyroods tune?
Speaking to someone yesterday who was voting for the only Conservative MP he saw no need to vote otherwise because they guy was doing and has done a good job for him personally and for his area, helping support new jobs etc.

Will be interesting to see where the relationship between Wee Eck and the “Nippy Sweety” goes from here, the smug look has returned!!!

I also remember how the day after the referendum people were emigrating to Australia…

Personal circumstances changed. I split from my wife. I’m not enough of a **** to put myself before my kids. What is your point?

Fair enough ^

The way I see it is that no matter which way you look at it England is a right wing country. Either Labour lost because Ed moved back to the centre/left and lost because people want ‘new labour’ not the ‘old’ labour or people believed the spin that the SNP would pull labour back to the left and again, would rather have a right wing government. Either way it’s pretty depressing.

While a PR system would of resulted in a lot of UKIP and fewer SNP MP’s, I’d much rather have that and government that works by consensus that what we have now.

Wanmankylung – in that case I apologise, I had genuinely completley forgotten about that thread, and that made it a low blow, sorry. (and I hope you are doing OK)

No bother.

I can’t take it all in to be honest. I feel a bit gutted. It was about as bad as as it could be on all fronts. I had been prepared for a large SNP vote but can’t believe that the Tories got a majority.

I have long argued that large numbers of people throughout the UK were dissaffected and nationalism was not the answer. Perhaps our countries are drifting apart and I was blind to it.

I have always voted labour but did not this time. I felt like punishing them in the hope that others might not.

Unlike the closeness of the referendum, this was resounding, and I can’t argue with that. I honestly congratulate the SNP. I can now see an end to the union and I certainly have less ammunition to defend it than I thought.

The silver lining I suppose is the poor showing of UKIP and the hope that SNP influence and Scottish voters may help keep the UK in Europe before we break apart. If that were to happen then I would at least hope we are both in the EU.

We are in for an interesting 5 years anyway!

@epicsteve, I disagree, at least in a coalition with Labour they could push another referendum through parliament. Now there’s no chance for the next five years and Cameron will drop devomax killing independence dead.

^^^ This – it was an opportunist vote for the SNP based on having influence in
a coalition government – or vote partnership.
(more SNP MP`s = more influence)
Completely backfired as the rest of the UK was stimulated to vote against an
outside influence coalition and for a safer option.
What will SNP actually deliver now?

What will SNP actually deliver now?

Independence, with a decade.