This 'Raoul Moat is a legend' thing on facebook etc

Am I living in a parralel universe or is this a language I have not yet mastered?

You have to read it in a Geordie accent 🙂 I had no trouble understanding it, though it does make me a little ashamed to be the same species as that lot 🙁

Tasering someone who had a gun to their head. Ignoring prison officer advice about the danger posed by Moat on his release. To name but two things out of many.

So we know this for sure or are we going on newspaper reports?

the suggestion about the tasering was that it was an attempt (in the middle of the night following a long stand-off) to stop him topping himself, wasn't it? i can't really see how it would be construed as likely to escalate the situation, knowing that in the circumstances he had to be a virtual certainty to pull the trigger?

Isn't Fawn Ann Hanley a leader writer for the Guardian?

Non surprise number 1: The internet is full of idiots
Non surprise number 2: England is full of idiots

Easy to shoot people who are unarmed isn't it Raoul?

He was a doorman involved in the underworld, violent and raped his ex-girlfriend.

He was jailed for beating a child.

He had more previous.

He didn't slip and accidently pull the trigger multiple times.

At what stage could it have been anyone 'normal'?

I remember some people posting on here that they'd had a pretty bad upbringing but turned out alright I cant remember what you said hora but to me this proves my point life can go anyway.

I dont know maybe he had a bad child hood and turned to drink, drugs and steroids at an early age maybe this actually affected his brain chemistry. Testosterone can make people both aggressive and paranoid both behaviours set out above.

Maybe he was clever enough (police informer) to get away with these things so nothing went wrong for him till it was too late to change his behaviour.

I dont know I suppose it depends what you description of normal is but I could see for most people a few bad decisions during your teenage years might make life turn out very differently to how it did.

Also are you suggesting he could nt have had a normal life no matter what ?

hora- we know that tazers were fired. what we dont know is the timing of the firing.

theflatboy- shocking someone who has their finger on a trigger is only ever going to result in them pulling that trigger.

this is not the place for assumptions. (this is the point i am making) Two sides to every story and the truth is always in the middle somewhere etc etc etc.

People dont seem to make the connection that it could have been them if their situation had been different

Yep – if I'd been a psychotic, raping, child-beating, serial criminal without 2 brain cells to rub together, with an utter inability to take responsibility for the choices that I had made in life and a total disregard for morality and the rights of others – that could have been me.

this may or may not be indicative of what i think of Raoul Moat but if i shot people or threatened to shoot police etc etc as he did i would hope some other bastard shot me in the head as fast as possible to make sure i didnt take it further.

Yep – if I'd been a psychotic, raping, child-beating, serial criminal without 2 brain cells to rub together, with an utter inability to take responsibility for the choices that I had made in life and a total disregard for morality and the rights of others – that could have been me.

Put far better than I could and succinctly.

a prime example of the 'under-class'

Obviously there is the issue of why advice from the prison wasn't acted on and that will need to be investigated thoroughly. However, moving on from that the police's main priority was to protect the public. They seem to have done that. It's easy for the armchair bounty-hunters on here to opine on what the police should and shouldn't have done but they were not there and do not know the full story. Sure he may have had the gun pointed at his own head but it only takes a split second to point it at someone elses. Although a very tragic event, let's not lose sight of the fact that this was ALL Raoul Moat's doing. He made the choices that led him to this destination. He didn't kill and maim in self defence.

jimmyshand – Member
theflatboy- shocking someone who has their finger on a trigger is only ever going to result in them pulling that trigger.

you obviously have a lot more knowledge of such things than i do, then. though presumably one could hold a gun to the side of one's head without necessarily having a finger on the trigger, no?

Would it have been feasible to dart him with a tranquilizer or similar?

Would it have been feasible to dart him with a tranquilizer or similar?

Or a rolled up newspaper?

Deport them where exactly? Like it or not, these people are a product of OUR society.

They may be a product of our society but we aren't powerless to do something about it.

Lets put it down to a vote, let the general public decide, do you want to live in the same country as these nasty little scumbags? If the answer is yes then i will quite happily accept defeat and leave. If the answer is no then lets get rid of them all, to where exactly? Who cares, put them on a boat and cut it loose into the atlantic, packed with explosives and a remote detonator. Either that or send them somewhere really nasty where they will fit in like N. Korea, Afghanistan or the Isle of Man.

Ignoring prison officer advice about the danger posed by Moat on his release

Not strictly true. A cellmate said to prison officers "hes going hurt his gf"

The prison then pass this on to police, who every morning have a meeting to discuss who's been let out of prison the day before and the risks they pose to the general public and police. these meetings have a lot of cases to get through.
What can they do? put a police guard on everyone who is at risk or poses a risk? how long for? impossible to implement I'm afraid.

This thread has turned from a discussion about the Facebook stuff, to a completely different discussion altogether. It'll probably get closed.
(btw, EVERYONE I've spoken to thinks the whole thing had the right result in the end.)

LHS – Member
If the answer is no then lets get rid of them all, to where exactly? Who cares, put them on a boat and cut it loose into the atlantic, packed with explosives and a remote detonator. Either that or send them somewhere really nasty where they will fit in like N. Korea, Afghanistan or the Isle of Man.

do you write the BNP manifesto?

do you write the BNP manifesto?

How has that got anything to do with the BNP?

LHS – Member

do you write the BNP manifesto?

How has that got anything to do with the BNP?

because it is essentially the same as a plan outlined in the recent BNP manifesto. google "bnp south georgia". you should join, you'd fit right in.

So LHS, you would like to build a society where we discriminate against people whose anti-social behaviour, as far as we can tell, is that they chose to write phonetically and have some misguided respect for someone who may have been deranged in some way.

Think on balance I'd rather rite fonetically 🙂

put them on a boat and cut it loose into the atlantic, packed with explosives and a remote detonator.

Yes, very much a the sort of solution you'd get in the letters section of the Daily Mail there LHS, but not really very practical or realistic so it doesn't really move us forward.

I thought the BNP was all about immigration and racism? I'm talking about nasty little oiks who think it is acceptable to shoot people in the face.

Think on balance I'd rather rite fonetically

Your choice I guess.

but not really very practical or realistic so it doesn't really move us forward.

practical – yes, realistic – sadly not.

I'm talking about nasty little oiks who think it is acceptable to shoot people in the face.

Can I ask what the people of Afghanistan or N.Korea have done to deserve getting these people imported into their country?

Jimmyshand

I think you should have stuck to playing the accordion. Any relation?

HERE

LHS – Member
I thought the BNP was all about immigration and racism? I'm talking about nasty little oiks who think it is acceptable to shoot people in the face.

if you look up the information i mentioned you'll find how closely alligned your perspective is to that of the BNP. somehow i don't find it hard to believe that a fair bit of what they say strikes a chord with your views.

Can I ask what the people of Afghanistan or N.Korea have done to deserve getting these people imported into their country?

A very good point, apologies, i have nothing against these people and they certainly shouldn't be burdened with the dross of society we choose to deport.

How about Australia?

How about Australia?

We've tried that before and it didn't help us. 😉

Deport them where exactly? Like it or not, these people are a product of OUR society.

They may be a product of our society but we aren't powerless to do something about it.

Lets put it down to a vote, let the general public decide, do you want to live in the same country as these nasty little scumbags? If the answer is yes then i will quite happily accept defeat and leave. If the answer is no then lets get rid of them all, to where exactly? Who cares, put them on a boat and cut it loose into the atlantic, packed with explosives and a remote detonator. Either that or send them somewhere really nasty where they will fit in like N. Korea, Afghanistan or the Isle of Man.

Certainly a product of this nation of individuals. Responsibility for Society is something citizens of the UK don't do.

Tasering someone who had a gun to their head. Ignoring prison officer advice about the danger posed by Moat on his release. To name but two things out of many.
I dont care what he has done previously, it is not the job of the police to sentence people to death.

He did
Interesting points but you seem to be ignoring the fact that Moat shot some people and then held the gun to his head for quite a while. He could easily have got out of this dangerous scenario by simply putting the gun down and surrendering – his decison not to do this shows some sort of intent surely. When you are shot in the head with the illegally owned gun in your hand that you have pointed at your head for a number of hours when faced with armed officers I think you are at least partially to blame for shooting yourself.

To ignore Rauls role in this takes some seriously selective reading of facts.

To ignore Rauls role in this takes some seriously selective reading of facts.

+1

LHS You judge a society about how it treats those on the margins of it those who are disenfranchised from it. We need to somehow find a way of reintegrating these people [ the Moat loving hoddy chav criminal tastic types] into society and sharing our views and values. I suspect that violating their human rights and using your own hatred of them as a guide to your behaviour is not an effective method of achieving this goal.

. I suspect that violating their human rights and using your own hatred of them as a guide to your behaviour is not an effective method of achieving this goal

Prove it! 😉

In all seriousness obviously my post was meant with a little tongue and cheek – I actually quite like the Isle of Man for example. Hatred is a strong word and I would never say that i really hate anyone. A better word to describe it is intolerance. And yes, I am intolerant of anyone who thinks hero worshiping someone like this is acceptable.

I agree with your point about reintegrating these people into society but as above, this is neither practical or realistic. So we are stuck in the middle and nothing will change. Sounds like the UK.

Lets put it down to a vote, let the general public decide, do you want to live in the same country as these nasty little scumbags?

might it not be the case that they in fact outnumber those that revile them and democracy might see us being deported to oblivion ?

What a load of conceited snobbery. As someone above mentions these people are a product of our society, it's certainly not them steering this ship.

Just chucking money at them in the form of benefits and then resenting them for taking it is not going to help anyone, these people need to be empowered and that's where it's going wrong.

I would imagine that to these people the police are mostly oppressive and intimidatiing, and as in one of those posts never actually there when they are needed. That's certainly my experiance of them. I don't agree with it but in that context it is entirly understandable why Moat is being idolised for his vendetta against the authorities.

Well the status quo wont work for sure but is it really surprising that crims hate the feds?
I dont think anyone will support or defend them for theor views but I dont think we should match their intolerance with ours …even though we are right and they are tools

…hoddy chav…

Steady, you'll make ernie mad if you start on construction workers !