There's no smoke without…..Farah?

😕

surfer, you’re taking it way too personally chap, I’m stopping now.

What I am amazed at is all the calling for evidence, as in this St results. We’ve all totally forgotten all the lessons of the LA saga and the whole basis of the Reasoned Decision?

In a criminal case witness testimony is as admissible and crucial as forensic or CCTV, but not in the Court of STW.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33002464

I’d run a mile

She’s not suggesting she’d spend very long running away then 😆

Hmm, I’m now starting to wonder why you’re protesting about this so much

😯

What I am amazed at is all the calling for evidence

I know its a bloody pain isnt it!

In a criminal case witness testimony is as admissible and crucial as forensic or CCTV, but not in the Court of STW.

It hasnt gone too court

surfer, you’re taking it way too personally chap

I’m not really 🙂

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/two-amateurs-test-positive-for-epo-at-gran-fondo-new-york-34711/

Don’t forget the drugs in sportives !! Not sure why they are tested as we all know sportives are not races?

These things emerge into the light in stages, Mo Farah has been tainted by association now and if there is more dirt on him then there’s a good chance it will be dug up over the next year or so.

As well as leading the way in anti-doping, cycling has also provided a legal and media template for big exposés like this – so perhaps we’ll see athletes taking the Floyd Landis / Tyler Hamilton approach in the near future?

Not sure why they are tested as we all know sportives are not races?

You know that Gran Fondos are races in Europe and the US?

Not until I read the full article no I didn’t ,I had remembered something about grand fondo`s and thought they were sportives as we have

Have Nike made any comment?

Is their slogan still “just do it”?

😀

Can someone do a search and replace using “Farah” and “Lance”, “Salazar” and “Ferrari”?

The arguments from both sides seem strangely familiar.

We’ve seen testing doesn’t work very well and can be avoided for years. Saying “but he’s been tested loads of times” has been proven (with Lance) as irrelevant in a PED conversation. The USADA work was all done on testimony rather than physical evidence. It feels like we’re at a Floyd Landis stage here with early testimony emerging.

Do I think athletics is riddled with PED use? Hell yes.

They should just be allowed to get on with it. You do everything you can to run, swim, rugbyerise or whatever as fast/violently as possible. That’s what it’s about.

What pisses me off is when the BBC make a mildly interesting programme and then fill the next 200 news programmes with the news they think they’ve just created.

Can someone do a search and replace using “Farah” and “Lance”, “Salazar” and “Ferrari”?

😆 – I think that’s the perspective a few of us are looking at this from. I wish being realistic didn’t require being so cynical. Though I should point out that the jury hasn’t even been sworn in yet on Farah – nothing like the level of evidence there was for LA even when most of us thought him innocent.

Certainly when all the evidence on LA hadn’t come out and some still believed him innocent (where is hora?) I mentioned several times that Marion Jones had been tested loads of times and never failed – this is nothing new for athletics.

Just to remind those that keep bringing up the LA case, he did test positive. The sports governing body helped cover it up.

The is no longer a AAA, they went bust over the Diane Modal case.

actually no. He was identified as suspicious, the UCI then helped by explaining to LA and his team how to ensure that wouldn’t lead to a positive test in the future. He never formally tested positive.

He did however get ‘popped’ by the bio passport on his return.

Marion Jones was using stuff that at the time was undetectable. LA was using stuff that was and he positive tested and it was well publised at the time.

Do we have any provable facts on the accused yet? No so lets get back to innuendo and pretend its news.

The is no longer a AAA, they went bust over the Diane Modal case.

The AAA

Although I think its more recently known as “England Athletics”

Can someone do a search and replace using “Farah” and “Lance”, “Salazar” and “Ferrari”?

apparently not as:

Thats rubbish.

because:

Salazar has a reputation as one of the finest long distance coaches in the world

so, that’s ok then 😕

Though I should point out that the jury hasn’t even been sworn in yet on Farah – nothing like the level of evidence there was for LA

That pesky evidence thing again.

so, that’s ok then

Its a good job you are not burdened with such concerns eh Nick 🙂

Do we have any provable facts on the accused yet?

He’s probably using stuff which is undetectable at the moment 😈

(as was also the case for most of what LA was using – only made a mistake once IIRC)

Its a good job you are not burdened with such concerns eh Nick

I don’t have to be, WADA are looking into it for me…

I think the burden of proof doesn’t really count for much on a thread of idle speculation TBH

Im surprised no one asked Nike for their view. If the allegations are true then it would appear that Nike have directly or indirectly funded it.

Nike probably don’t care, they haven’t ever shown much concern when previous athletes of theirs from various sports have been busted.

Anyone get the feeling that this Salazar thing is like the Balco case all over again, but this time with long distance runners?

Oh dear ….

Salazar was also close to his fellow Nike athlete Lance Armstrong, and paced him when he ran the New York marathon in 2006.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/04/mo-farah-five-questions-alberto-salazar-doping

Anyone get the feeling that this Salazar thing is like the Balco case all over again, but this time with long distance runners?

It might put them under some more scrutiny but the allegations are old and are going to be difficult to do much with beyond putting a bit of a black cloud up in the air.

Of course, if more information now comes to light that could change but for now…

Do we have any provable facts on the accused yet? No so lets get back to innuendo and pretend its news.

Yes we’re in the court of STW / social media where guilt is assumed and then innocence has to be proven.
Not dissimilar to divorce courts then… 😈

This is part of Lance’s legacy. History shows us that sometimes the rumour and innuendo is correct, despite all scientific evidence pointing to the contrary.

Do a little digging and you’ll find that the Athletic’s West the forerunner to the Oregon Project, which Salzar was also a member of have had a least 2 former members test or admit to testosterone use (one coached by Salzar at the time). There are also rumours of lectures on steroid and testosterone use at Athletics West back in the early 80’s. Oh and in answer to the earlier query about Nike, apparently Nike knew about what was going on at Athletics West as it was their baby.

The whole thing sounds so familiar athlete uses drugs in career then goes on to coach and guess what suggests his athletes should take PEDs 👿

Athletics West wiki

I’m not aware Salazar ever tested positive for drugs, did he? I think that Wiki just makes the standard Steroid allegation. Not sure anything really happened as a result unless you can tell me different?
It also refers to athletes such as Frank Shorter, Bill Rodgers and Craig Virgin. Some of the best athletes of the day. Mary Slaney is also refered to and she was a drugs cheat (and a whiney cow!)

As an athlete he was not hard to like, if like me you are old enough to remember when he was in his prime! His appetite for training was legendary and he was never the most graceful runner which made him look workmanlike and an underdog.

His appetite for training was legendary

Thats what the drugs do for you, they allow the user to train harder for longer and recover quicker, then repeat.

Lots of people seem to thing that nothing changes other than the drugs, but it is mainly all the extra training that they allow that makes the biggest difference.

No he didn’t test positive but one of the athletes he coached did, and others on the Athletics West team have admitted to taking it while there. Plus they were apparently given lectures on the stuff. So you may give him the benefit of the doubt but the reality is he came through a system where it was common place, from that make up your own mind.

MSP +1

Thats what the drugs do for you, they allow the user to trail harder for longer and recover quicker

Yes we know that but lots of runners ran very high mileage and Dave Bedford was renowned for running over 200 MPW. Are we saying he was on drugs because he ran high mileage? I was making the point that Salazar was a hard trainer and you are using that as an indication that he was taking drugs when I could argue that the opposite is the case!

from that make up your own mind.

Thats not really the point I have been making throughout this thread. I understand there were allegations surrounding him and that makes me a little bit sad in a schoolboy hero type of way but its the way that these unproven allegations are bandied around as fact which is irritating.

Cant you see the difference between:

No he didn’t test positive but one of the athletes he coached did

And

athlete uses drugs in career

I would take the fact that someone is able to train a lot harder than all the other world class athletes they compete against as pretty suspicious. That was always part of the Armstrong myth.

The reality is over the past 50 years, the clean athletes have been the exception, not the dirty ones.

The reality is over the past 50 years, the clean athletes have been the exception, not the dirty ones.

I suppose it would be silly to ask for evidence for such a ridiculous statement

I would take the fact that someone is able to train a lot harder than all the other world class athletes they compete against as pretty suspicious.

Well you may be mixing up “mileage” with “hard” but leaving that aside have you ever trained with any top class runners? By that I mean international standard?

I’d be surprised if there are any elite athletic T&F types who haven’t/don’t take naughty. The think that made me laugh a little was the apparent outrage that some british and/or american athletes may have taken PEDs and the complete disregard of the eastern europeans’ (mainly
russian) PED programme which was not just integral to their programme, it was government instigated and highly likely still is.

Interestingly enough Wrecker one of the most notable periods of improvement was almost single handedly down to Haile Gebrselassie who was responsible for knocking 30 seconds off it !!!
I dont think his name has ever been associated with cheating? Not saying for one minute that some of those athletes didnt cheat but given what Haile did I am not sure it is saying what you think it is?
Also 10000m running only became global around the mid 70’s when the African nations came to the fore.

Edit: In fact its wrong. Where did you get it from?

Edit: In fact its wrong. Where did you get it from?

Dragged it from some refutable source 🙂 It’s not a million miles out though is it?
My broader point is that there is too much at stake now. The careers of the participants is a very minor part of it. Rich people getting richer is the main thing. FIFA is a good example, as are the fortunes of companies like Nike as seen here.
When people stand to gain or lose significant sums of money, there will always be cheating. I think sport is less about skill and human endeavor and more about entertainment (and profitability) now.