the wonderful world of private healthcare US style

I agree tbh I would not want the doctor to have a financial interest in how much treatment i recieve. It would seem quite likely to make them do things you dont need just for money.
It would also have been useful to see the profits of the hospitals /providers as well as insurers.

LHS: donations to charity are tax-deductible in the UK, too.

Junkyard: Don’t NHS GPs get paid per procedure? Isn’t that a financial interest in your treatment?

There certainly does seem to be a lot of propaganda floating around.

Yeah, but let’s not interrupt the backslapping, eh?

donations to charity are tax-deductible in the UK, too.

Please explain more.

Please explain more.

‘Give as you earn’ deducts donations from gross salary

I dont think Dr’s pay is quite as simple as you suggest. Lets just assume it is do you think it is a good idea or a bad idea.

I’ve never heard of that before, I wonder how many companies sign up to this scheme?

It would also have been useful to see the profits of the hospitals /providers as well as insurers

The size of their profit is not an issue – the fact that they have to make one by definition is I feel.

Yeah, but let’s not interrupt the backslapping, eh?

Look, I’m not anti-US, I’ve got lots of family there and all. Most countries have problems, and in the US I have come to the conclusion that one of them is the healthcare system. The political situation is simply down to history and ideology, and is highly debatable. The healthcare situation is not. It’s a shambles.

Don’t NHS GPs get paid per procedure?

I don’t think they do. As I understand it, GPs are independant contractors to the NHS, but technically not part of it. I’m not sure whether they’re paid per consultation (procedure means something specific in NHSland) or per patient on the books. The former would mean they benefit by having loads of elderly and inform patients on repeat perscritions, the latter a load of fit folk who never bother with doctor. Either would be far too simple for the NHS

That said, GPs and GP practice managers do have the highest GMQ * of any NHS group so everything should be as simple as possible for them

* General Muppetry Quotient

To put some perspecive:

Average Single cover isurance policy – $4800 a year
Which in real money is £3000 a year, or £250 a month.

How much do you pay for the NHS a month? I know it differs per person but my National Insurance contributions in the UK far exceed £250 a month

NI pays for a lot more than just the NHS

It’s pretty crude but NHS budget is £110bn / 60 million = £1800 per person per year. That’s shitloads cheaper than the US model not to mention the fact that the NHS is so much further reaching, including things like social care, subsidised prescriptions etc

aye, fair point Molgrips.

aye, fair point

Ban him! You can’t say stuff like that on here!

Junkyard: Don’t NHS GPs get paid per procedure? Isn’t that a financial interest in your treatment?

Isn’t the paying per procedure only for things that are being targeted as a health measure. Like extra money for hitting vaccination targets etc. Things where whilst it may not be obvious to some individuals that the procedure is in their interest, getting more of them done is certainly in the general interest of society.

Incidentally, as I understood it with over-treating in the US, is that it is very hard to take a legal case for doing too much treatment, unless you really screw something up. Whereas if something bad happens to someone and some test or preventative procedure hasn’t been done they might be able to argue that it was some kind of negligence? Or something like that? It was with respect to childbirth that I heard this – that essentially a lot of doctors are unwilling to support home births / non-medicalised forms of birth, because if something goes wrong, they are likely to get sued, whereas even if doing a caesarean makes things more risky (which it supposedly does in many cases), it is less rare to be sued for bad things going wrong in operations assuming they are seen as just accidents / bad stuff happening as opposed to a poorly performed operation.

Litigation and insurance is also a pain. For example, at a US person’s house, they were very careful to tell all visitors to be careful of a step at the door. This was because if someone tripped over the step, they might get sued. This isn’t because all American citizens are lawyer hungry people who sue their friends. This is because of the health insurance system – in a similar way to car insurance over here, if you have an accident, your insurer tries to work out who is to blame, or if it was just an accident. If they think there is a reasonable chance that someone else was to blame (eg. you trip over someone else’s doorstep without them warning you about it), then they sue them to reclaim the money. As the insured person, you have no real choice as to who your insurance company chooses to sue (as you want the money off them for the treatment).

sorry typo it said **** you molgrips

Lol 🙂

It’s pretty crude but NHS budget is £110bn / 60 million = £1800 per person per year.

Although there are only 31 million taxpayers, so it’s a bit over £3k for each of them 🙂

It’s pretty crude but NHS budget is £110bn / 60 million = £1800 per person per year. That’s shitloads cheaper than the US model not to mention the fact that the NHS is so much further reaching, including things like social care, subsidised prescriptions etc

Take 30% off the population who are either under 16, over 65 and not paying and the unemployed and you are down to about 40 million = £2750 per person per year or $4500 per person!!

molgrips – Member
Lol

Sycophant

LOL – what Mike D said! ^^^^^

so thats £3,500 per person or $5,670.

As stated, don’t think that the healthcare is “free” in the UK.

So lets get the kids down the mines and work till you drop?

LHS – Member
LOL – what Mike D said! ^^^^^

so thats £3,500 per person or $5,670.

As stated, don’t think that the healthcare is “free” in the UK.

Free at the point of delivery

And where did you get your MRSA stat from earlier?

Free at the point of delivery? What has that got to do with it?

And where did you get your MRSA stat from earlier?

Google MRSA deaths UK

it’s a bit over £3k for each of them

Small price to pay.

But it’s bnot a very useful statistic because NHS is funded from general taxation and that is not all personal income tax.

Free at the point of delivery? What has that got to do with it?

Everything in the world! Do you need it spelling out or can you just perhaps read the thread?

It is irrelevant how many taxpayers – the cost per person is what counts – far less than an insurance based system. or do you really want to pay a lot more for your healthcare while others have no cover? Do you really want third world child mortality rates?

The NHS does more healthcare for less money than just about anything else. No one dies in the UK because they are too poor to afford healthcare

29 million people manage to avoid paying tax altogether in the uk? Wow….what about VAT, Fuel tax, council tax, etc?

Can you count the people over 65 that have retired? Surely they have contributed to the NHS at some point have they not? Do you pay tax on your pension? I thought you did, but may be wrong.

Everything in the world! Do you need it spelling out or can you just perhaps read the thread?

Seems you have got the blinkers on a bit there.

No one dies in the UK because they are too poor to afford healthcare

This is what separates us from the beasts

Please explain then.

No one dies in the UK because they are too poor to afford healthcare

No, but an unnecessary amount die due to lack of basic care whilst in hospital – dehydration, nutrition and superbugs. Is this due to the level of funding being too low?

LHS do you have anything material to back that sweeping statement up?

LHS – Member
Google MRSA deaths UK

No, tell me where you got the ‘thousands’ from and how that contradicts the official stats, instead of posting a completely unrelated story.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Dehydration-kills-elderly-hospital-patients.6787851.jp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13786420

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/ipswich_hospital_apology_after_death_of_mum_following_four_falls_1_929373

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventrytimes/2011/06/22/concerns-remain-over-hospital-food-92746-28922202/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-13620261

I could go on I’m sure.

LHS – like to back that up with something other than hyperbole? You have already been shown to be talking rowlocks about MRSA. Usually you have decent info. Whats your blind spot here?

I am certain the NHS would be better for more money. Spend the amount even as a % of GDP that the US does and you would nearly double the budget. Thats a politicial decision tho.

We get what we pay for – and even with the large increases in funding since 1997 we still pay less for our healthcare than most comparable nations

EDIT – so hyperbole then not decent data

You make the mistake of believing that Healthcare funding in the UK is covered by tax receipts… in case you hadn’t noticed, we’re spending more money than we take in, and a big chunk of this is on healthcare – we’re paying for the NHS by putting it on the mortgage!

Per-capita health expenditure for the UK, 2010, was (US$) 3129

Now, how many of us pay that a year in total taxes?

Factor in the young, the old, the unemployed, and the lazy not contributing to the pot – and see where your “free” healthcare is coming from!

LHS do you have anything material to back that sweeping statement up?

Probably read about it in the Daily Mail, so it must be true. 😉

Out sourcing of cleaning was a mistake, bring back the Matrons.

LHS, this isn’t about picking holes in the NHS. This is about social versus private healthcare. So posting stories about MRSA is not useful, nor is posting about budget deficits.

Why do you think ‘free at the point of delivery’ is not important?

Probably read about it in the Daily Mail.

Wow, that wasn’t predictable at all!! 🙄

Still no source though…

EDIT – sorry molgrips!

Stop bloody bickering! Talk objectively or not at all!

And again LHS, this doesn’t happen in the US system then?

I dont think the argument is about whether medical treatment is free under the NHS, we all know its not. Its about whether an induvidual has the right to adequate health care, whether they can afford it or not.

The figure i read is quoted as 44’000 amercain people dying anually beacuse they don’t have medical cover. They died because they didnt have the coin. That is shameful for a developed country.

Should add that figure come from wikipedia, so could be way off. Its under teh entry for “health care in the United States” under teh heading “death”. 40% chance of dying because you can’t afford to recieve timely health care. Nice.