The lad that's been stabbed and killed whilst robbing!

I’m with lodrick on this and we are both from the same part of the world where this type of activity is far too frequent. Fear would force me to react first and ask questions later I think as long as the guy ends up in hospital and not the morgue I suspect in the real world I would not end up in prison.

burglary = bad , killing = bad, two wrongs dont make a right.

Yes, but at the actual time of someone breaking and entering your house how you could possibly know that it is ‘only’ a burglary?!

I agree things like rape/beatings/torture are extremely unlikely but I doubt that’s much comfort at the time to somebody faced with masked intruders in the middle of the night, so you could hardly blame someone for lashing out.

If you could see into the future and know that some dudes in your house were definitely only going to rob your TV and stuff and then walk out, it would all be fine, no?

Surely the crux of the matter is that you would have no idea what is going on and would be shitting yourself. Of course you could plot the best, calmest and most logical course of action if you had a crystal ball.

Nobody seemed to know where John called home
He just drifted into town and stayed all alone.
He didn’t say much, kind of quiet and shy
And if you spoke at all, you’d just said hi to Big John.

Junkyard – Member
then you could be charged with an offence the same as if you were tooled up in the street for purely self protection reasons. Why not use it only if they attack you rather than because they enter your property?
Two wrongs dont make a right

OK there is one thing of being convicted for the crime committed But how about being tried
for the reason one committed the crime on the other person/persons?

The law simply needs a large update.

I’d take no chances with an intruder. I live in a remote area, nobody is going to hear a shout for help here and even gun shots are not uncommon due to hunting (even at night).

On the plus side, nobody is going to hear a shout for help here and even gun shots are not uncommon even at night. And I have a lot of space to bury bodies too..

OK there is one thing of being convicted for the crime committed But how about being tried for the reason one committed the crime on the other person/persons?

The law simply needs a large update.
you are tried on the offence self defence can turn an assault into not an assault. I assume it happening in your property means you can strike first for example and not be charged. What you can get away with compared to doing this to a random person in the street and would i am sure it will mitigate the sentence if any – unlikely unless you are very unreasonable. As you can defend yourself what more do you want? the right to kill them ? maim them?kick seven bells out of them?what is your update?

Just watching ufc on extreme, could easily be some of these keyboard warriors… ground and pound that burglar!

On the plus side, nobody is going to hear a shout for help here and even gun shots are not uncommon even at night. And I have a lot of space to bury bodies too..

I was in a house converted to flats one night when a big gang of lads kicked the front door in and steamed the flats in turn. They didn’t get as far as my flat but I was so hyped up I’d have killed the first three through the door and thrown the fourth out the window. I wasn’t thinking or reasoning about just cause or reasonable force. I was shitting myself and was completely off the wall. It’s not about possessions or insurance. Try being there before casting judgement.

I have no idea what happened in this particular situation but it is a pretty terrifying thing to go through from my experience. It is entirely possible that perfectly normal people have been pushed to respond in a completely abnormal way by an extreme incident and while death is an extreme punishment for an apparent robbery, the mitigating circumstances of this need to be taken into account.

Oh, and yes. It was in Liverpool.

@drac ex-infantry, have killed and quite happy to do it again. Using a keyboard to bludgeon someone would make quite a novel twist though 🙂

My update is I would simply batter the person/persons.
There in my home not invited but broken in.

I know il think what I would say in the courts in my defence, then make them a cup of tea

*crosses gwj72’s remote house off list*

wow samuri certain amount of honesty there.

Usual load of pish being spoken on here on this

I go back to this

TandemJeremy – Member
Find a single case where someone has been prosecuted for defending themselves and their property.

You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself, you loved ones and your property and reasonable force is what a jury of your peers think is reasonable

And I have a lot of space to bury bodies too.

I’ve run out. Could you bury a couple of mine for me ?

burglary = bad , killing = bad, two wrongs dont make a right.

I think they do, according to the king james bible…

Wasn’t Tony Martin the victim of repeated burglaries before he shot the fleeing intruder, and frustrated because the police reaction had been poor?

I’ve run out. Could you bury a couple of mine for me ?

Why is it always vegans that end up being serial killers?

Must be the hard wired desire for meat.

Agree with most on this. Live by the sword….

They are breaking the law by entering your property and putting the lives of you and your family at risk. A complete shoeing and a few shotgun pellets in their arse as they are leaving is reasonable force in my book.

I got burgled a few years ago, we all slept throughout and didnt hear a thing. Afterwards, I made the usual comments of wishing I’d have woke up, they’d have got a right shoeing, etc, but you know what? – I think I’d have just shat meself. It’s one thing being a hardcase on the internet, and a completely different situation when it happens in real life. I have little or no sympathy for anybody injured whilst robbing or burgling people, you shouldnt be doing it in the first place. Just dont know if I’m the sort of bloke to do the injuring.

@drac ex-infantry, have killed and quite happy to do it again

STEADY THERE FELLA
If you have to then fair enough, but “quite happy to”?
You’re just giving fuel to the military haters there buddy.
Me, well I’ve got a great big english bull terrier. We’d mount a coordinated attack. 😀

Man trained to do killinz likes killinz.

We are looking at this as citizens.

I think this is what the US police refer to as a “killing” as opposed to a homicide e.g. no civilians involved.

The homeowner seemed a normal bloke from what I can gather this morning. Obviously just a hard bastard who takes no shit once you cross his threshold, literally 😯

Thing is, I can’t understand what the problem was…it sounded like four guys broke in carrying a Middle Eastern dessert. Now, I know it’s not that popular anymore, but killing to death is a bit overboard.

carrying a Middle Eastern dessert

killing to death

??

Four guys tried to surprise the owner with Baklava didn’t they?

And he killed one of them to death…maybe he preferred Turkish Delight?

Junkyard:

possessions are not worth more than lifes

Really?

My toe nail clippings are worth more to me than the lives of theiving scumbags that put on balaclavas and try to force their way into my house.
Sorry, but some people just don’t deserve to be alive.

burglary = bad , killing = bad, two wrongs dont make a right.
I think they do, according to the king james bible…

you are not familiar with it then are you….what are you a bad christian or a poor troll.in all seriousness what would jesus do?

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
FAIL
Yes Orman i can see why , given you value your human detritus above a human life. that you are one of the good guys who deserves life.
Personally I think both you and the thief have a broken moral compass

wrightyson:
The homeowner seemed a normal bloke from what I can gather read in The Sun this morning. Obviously just a hard bastard who takes no shit once you cross his threshold, literally

…also, I don’t think anyone would accept some shit, literally, crossing threshold or not.

Be a right mess.

balaclavas

Oops…****! 😳

Thegreattape, it is a burglary. You cannot rob people in a house. Burglary occurs the minute they enter the property without permission of owner and intend to steal (or list of others) so it occurs before any potential robbery. If they have weapons if becomes an aggravated burglary which I imagine is what this actually is. The reason post offices or shops are robberies not burglaries is because they haven’t entered as a tresspasser. Simple!! Burglary not robbery.

The worst thing is that the burgular had the same surname as me and I only live down the road. He is no relation, i’ve checked!

this is exactly the reasons i’ve set up my house like a cross between the ‘home alone’ films and ‘funhouse’…. if somebody breaks in and gets past the paint cans on ropes, firecrackers and other booby (hehehehe booby!) traps then they get a chance to ride in the go-karts and win an alba boom-box.

@drac ex-infantry, have killed and quite happy to do it again

STEADY THERE FELLA
If you have to then fair enough, but “quite happy to”?

Bad turn of phrase. I’d much rather not shoot anyone, it’s not exactly fun.
But in a small remote house with valuables upstairs, it’s highly likely we would come into contact. And I am ready for foxes!

The son and his partner have been released without charge apparently and only the father is still in custody.

Reports have suggested the 4 men were wearing balaclavas and at least one was carrying a knife. Seems like a case of appropriate force when faced with greater numbers some of whom are possibly armed with knives themselves.

One less low life to pay benefits and fund jail time for.

The worst thing is that the burgular had the same surname as me

Dunno if that is the worse thing about all this….

You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself, you loved ones and your property and reasonable force is what a jury of your peers think is reasonable

There is a general misconception, fuelled by the right wing press, that if you defend yourself in your home “vigorously” then you will go to prison. There is little evidence for this and the high profile case above was extreme. Tony Martin sat in wait IIRC for the intruder and IMO that is going too far hence he was prosecuted. Even then he received a great deal of support from the public.
A more recent case involved two brothers chasing a man down the street and seriously assaulting him, again possibly going too far however they and their family had been through a terrible ordeal. They were released largely after a public outcry.

My brother in law is a criminal barrister and a good friend of mine is a judge (not sure how that happened 8O) and they both talk a lot of IMO “common sense” in the vast majority of cases bad people are punished and “good” people arent. As TJ comments its about “peers” and most judges and lawyers are “peers” also. Its in nobodies interest to prosecute people defending their property as long as they dont go too far and I suspect you would have to go a long way to exceed the general publics perception of “too far”
For that reason I keep a large Maglite torch at the side of my bed and if I wake in the night and hear an intruder (unlike some above) I would be terrified but my overwhelming priority would be to defend my family and if in any confusion my maglite came into contact with his head I dont think a court in the land would put me in prison.