[Closed] The Guardian article on 'The Masciline Mystique'

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I read this as The Mescaline Mystique and was settling in for a good read :/

Mentions that Grayson Perry book - The Descent of Man. Worth a read too.

Masciline, MRA, MGTOW et al

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[b]The Mescaline Mystique[/b]

Title of a new Sci-Fi series right there.

TL; DR?

I'll just leave this here.......

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[url= https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MRA ]MRA = Men's Rights Activists[/url] - Think Fathers for Justice

[url= https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MGTOW ]MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way[/url] Think new bachelors, eschewing marriage, co-habitation and children.

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I tried to read that. Sounds old-fashioned.

A few points -

The 60s tried to change women, and lost.

The 90s tried to change men, and lost.

Europe also tried to change men and women. It now lost the best Country in the Union.

What kind of woman wants another woman for a husband/provider?

Sadly for wannabe Gingham-clad Grauniandads - Brexit britain will be absolutely nothing like Scandinavia. Cry us a river.

See what you did - the constant shrieking liberal attacks on men has only made men stronger.

Clue = In the 90s you guys aspired to be identified with that Garth character from Wayne's World, or Shaggy from ScoobyDoo. Calling Fred a sexist rapist mansplaining misogynist amd pretending to fancy Velma more than Daphne

Didn't fall for it. Now we identify with Mad Men and Archer.. you made us do it.

#zetamalesnomore
#madmen
#archer
#trumpforever
#memesagogo

I asked Jim to buy be a drink and he said I should pay for it myself. I guess he's a Zeta Male

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The Mescaline Mystique

Title of a new Sci-Fi series right there.

On Netflix?

Can't wait!

I clicked on the link, but was distracted by "Meghan Markle and Prince Harry appear together for first time as engaged couple – live". It was more interesting. And that's saying something.
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They look delighted

They look delighted

That's the effects of too much Mescaline on young people....

The reason more men go back to work after children is because the men earn more. But that's not because of sexual inequality in the work place, it's because most women 'marry up'. It's an evolutionary predisposition for sexual selection - [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy ]Hypergamy[/url]

I don't understand the p1ss taking....

Equality's a good thing isn't it - or is this 1955?....

Mind you, I hardly feel men are oppressed when "Latest statistics for England show more than 80% of fathers still work full time, rising to almost 85% for dads of very young children."

Maybe they want to? I don't know - not a Dad..

Though "Suicide is a predominantly male tragedy (a man takes his life every minute somewhere in the world). Ditto gambling, drug overdoses, rough sleeping or just disappearing. Rape, murder, terrorism, war, people trafficking and domestic violence: all are predominantly masculine disgraces. Wherever you go in the world, men always make up more than 90% of jail populations."

Is cause for concern..

Shame some can only take the p1ss & not engage in a topic that does have some merits - if only they could be assed to have a bit of a think about it.

Having said all that I don't know how equipped I am to really comment given:
1. I'm retired.
2. I don't have any kids.
3. I'm not suicidal - though have been in the past.
4. Not been to prison.

Dig a bit deep & see past your own cynicism guys, there's a few worthy ideas in that article..

Final note "Then there are our role models: misogynist presidents, groping politicians, narcissistic sports stars, self-satisfied billionaires, airbrushed actors, heroic superheroes, alpha men, all of them. Even the average shape of a man has changed in 20 years: guns, pecs and necks wider than heads in some cases. There is no room for the winsome, the vulnerable, the uncertain."

Food for thought..

[i]Is cause for concern..[/i]

I thought we'd (well, they'd) been through this - if it wasn't 90% male there wouldn't necessarily be less males at those things, just more females. Is that what we want? (Rhetorical)

I like the way people dismiss this subject. Reminds me of they way gay rights, black rights, womens rights were dismissed when they first gained a bit of momentum.

Bizarrely it's the same people falling over each other trying to get their bit in to support those other movements when they come up in threads.

Even the average shape of a man has changed in 20 years: guns, pecs and necks wider than heads in some cases

I like the way people dismiss this subject.

I don't think many people do this. It's the normal accompaniment of "Its all the wimminz fault" that is the objectionable part.

It's the normal accompaniment of "Its all the wimminz fault" that is the objectionable part.

Just skimmed through that article - being one of the few dad's dropping off and picking up after school has its bonus's 😉 so stop yer bloody whining

I know 2 stay-at-home-dads and they both seem very happy. Both married to career oriented women, who far outclass their latent earning potentials.
I think as long as the tea is on the table every night and a bottle of wine ready then they're good - if not....

I don’t know where these people in the article live, but I’ve never received any strange looks when out and about with my toddler. If I did I wouldn’t even care. The article also starts on a strange footing. Men still get paid more, why is it men go back to work? I don’t know, could it be because on average they get paid more. This was written by a journalist.

Mrs F and I always said whoever is earning the least will quit work and stay at home. She was self employed at the time and reduced her hours to make sure it was her, the crafty bugger.

Edit - just read the rest of it. People genuinely care about how they are perceived by strangers or what society expects of them? Maybe at twenty I might have given a shit. Very odd read for me to be honest. Then again I’m not in possession of a career.

I believe the word du jour here is cite.

Oh just look up the MRA or MGTOW websites.

If you'd prefer a post from here...

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/international-mens-day-november-19th

Some valid points but in an age that enjoys more (not enough, but more) gender role fluidity than ever before I don't see the point of so much naval gazing. If you can afford to be a house husband and, as a couple, you want to make that change, then just do it. If you're a male factory worker on a low wage then I guess the whole concept is pie in the sky so you just suck it up. All this agonising over your identity as a man in society is just a bit too 'metropolitan' for me I'm afraid. This part just turned me off despite my best efforts:

The Being a Man festival, running from 24-26 November, aims to get under the skin of the masculine identity, prod it around a little, see if it falls apart.

Being A Man festival? I wouldnt go because it sounds like it's for ****s, but if I did it'd be in a dirty t-shirt, smelling of sweat and hastily applied aftershave. I'd also be carrying a cheerful but bemused baby.

That's about as manly as it gets.

The Being A Man festival, no doubt sponsored Merkur or the Sandpaper Bogroll Co or similar

I’m not getting it. Most of the ‘choice of fatherhood’ is removed when you realise that kids are, bloody expensive and someone has to get back to work pronto and earn.
I’d have been happy to be the stay at home dad, but also happy that my wife wanted to do it for the first few years (now back self employed) and as she poonted out, I don’t have tits so I was always going to be the one working!
I don’t see this ‘pressure’ from society to conform to the stereotype (as we did), I’ve never been stared at or made to feel the odd one out anywhere I’ve taken either of my kids so can’t understand where this is coming from. I see it as a result of the financial reality of life.

Article (note NOT an essay) seems preoccupied with the idea that ‘what others think’ matters. society, peers, women, employers.
Which is ironic given I would suggest this is exactly the problem. Stop naval gazing and just be the best version of you, and take ownership of your responsibilities.

I don't see the point of so much naval gazing

+1

Have absolutely no idea why Geetee is so obsessed with the subject....

I think he's studying it for A Levels or something.

I think he's studying it for A Levels or something.

They have an 'A' level in pop psychology bollocks now? How standards have dropped....

and take ownership of your responsibilities

But..... but.... everything is somebody else’s fault, isn’t it? It’s just a case of working out who to blame, right?

It’s just a case of working out who to blame, right?

Thatcher and/or Brexit.

I’ve just made a right mess of blind baking the base of my cheese and onion pie. I’m having to start again

You see! This is what happens when you start confusing gender rolls!

gender rolls

Greggsian Slip.

Final note "Then there are our role models: misogynist presidents, groping politicians, narcissistic sports stars, self-satisfied billionaires, airbrushed actors, heroic superheroes, alpha men, all of them. Even the average shape of a man has changed in 20 years: guns, pecs and necks wider than heads in some cases. There is no room for the winsome, the vulnerable, the uncertain."

Food for thought..

deadlydarcy - Member
gender rolls
Greggsian Slip.

gender rolls

I have the strangest...

You disgusting PERVERT!

My own experience of being a parent is entirely the opposite to that article.

Short term some circumstances may not be ideal but over the long term the bed you lay in is the one you've made.

Like those people who complain about the traffic to get from the house(they bought/rented) to the job(they chose). Its your responsibility to shape the life you want nobody elses.

Personally I used to very much enjoy walking my kids to primary school, many of the other parents are still friends now years later. I never felt any undue pressure from work at all.

a “masculine mystique” which imposes rigid cultural notions of what it is to be male – superior, dominant, hierarchical, sexually assertive to the point of abuse

If you think this is true you need to hand yourself into the police for the good of everyone.

a “masculine mystique” which imposes rigid cultural notions of what it is to be male – superior, dominant, hierarchical, sexually assertive to the point of abuse

Yep, must have missed that imposed culture as I am the opposite of those things

If you think this is true you need to hand yourself into the police for the good of everyone.

+1

The whole thing seems to be complete nonsense.

Well, I thought it was a decent article.

Might not be everyone's experience, but it was aimed at the general thrust of society.

Me naval gazing, yesterday...

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(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Stop naval gazing and just be the best version of you, and take ownership of your responsibilities.

Been away on business.

I think this is a valid argument but it only works if everyone can agree that your own position in life is entirely your own choice and your own making.

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Jesus, if you want to help lower suicide rates, perhaps stop writing articles comparing people based on what they do or don't do. Setting people up to constantly reevaluate everything and think they're doing something wrong/

Give us 5 minutes to decide what we (not just men, but all of us) actually want before ramming down our throats the new norms based on what wasn't the norm and probably wont be the norm tomorrow.

Just do what's good for you and those around you........and someone buy me the A Team van please