The Electric Car Thread

eniro doesn’t have an official towbar, but Brink do a special bike rack only one for it. Sadly none for the Soul yet.

I called Kia today and apparently the e-Niro now has a compatible tow bar. As it’s a lease car it’ll have to be an OEM tow bar won’t it?

Things EV are moving more quickly than things ICE, perhaps, but I wouldn’t necessarily be put off by that. If it meets your needs today and you don’t think your needs will change, then I wouldn’t be concerned. Battery tech is changing incrementally but what you buy isn’t all that bleeding edge and the main change is how many kWh for your money. Once bought that’s in the past. They’re still kWh.

As above, older Teslas and Zoes etc are still good cars now if you thought them good cars then.

Range, however… Don’t let a quoted 250 miles make you believe you’ll happily drive 250 miles up the motorway without needing a charge. Find out what others with the same car tend to average in terms of Wh/mile or miles/kWh and expect something around that, then adjust for avoiding the bottom 20% and remember that in the worst weather you might consume 20% more than on a dry summer’s day. But don’t fear a long journey either, just plan a lunch stop.

On the range, my Kia Soul says up to 270 miles but that’s perfect driving conditions yet over the past few months a full charge predicts on average 215 miles. I’ll admit the way I drive probably doesn’t help and with the heater on and I do accelerate hard and drive to the speed limits.

I’ve had the car for 4 months and yet to do a very long journey but I’m still very happy with my choice.

On the Sould it does has a very large upright window screen that does seem to attract stone chips.

Not sure if it’s been covered – I need to read the full thread but am trying to get MrsRNP into a cheap (£4k ish)MK1 Leaf for her local commuting <20miles a day.
She’s not recovered well from long Covid and struggles walking when it’s damp and our big old V70 isn’t ideal for short journeys.
We can charge off street via 13amp and have 3phase in our house.
Would love a new EV but I’m a bangernomics/keep cars as long as possible. Maintaining EV tech doesn’t bother me – I’m familiar with industrial thyristor/DC/bus systems etc.

So to stop waffling is anyone else running a first gen MK1 leaf?

Worldclassaccident is running a MK1 leaf.

Re the eniro, I’ve had a Tesla model 3 for 2 winters now but want a hatchback so also looking at eniro, id3 and maybe even a leaf 40 if I can live with the reduced range (not sure I can in winter if my M3 winter reduced range is anything to measure by). So I’d also be interested if anyone has one or has driven id3.

Hyundai Kona driver here. Its basically a re-skinned e-Niro/Soul. I’d be hard pressed to look past the e-Niro. There’s nothing the ID3 does better than the e-Niro except it can charge at 100kw but in the real world even if you can find a 100kw charger you’ll never see a 100kW charge. Once you have specced up an ID3 to the same spec as an e-Niro it will be at least the same price. FFS VW even charge you extra to have heat pump HVAC which comes standard with the e-Niro. Also the interior of the VW looks cheap and nasty. The days when VW had the edge in quality over far eastern competition are gone.

@doomanic You didn’t say how long your company lease would be but as others have said EV tech is changing fast just now so if I was leasing an EV privately I’d do it on 2 year term. If you are undecided between EV and ICE remember benefit-in-kind for an EV is 0% this year rising to 1% next year vs 20-30% for an ICE car. Even if you go for a PHEV your benefit in kind will still be 10%.

Only the highest 4+ spec eNiro comes with a heat pump now.

I went for the Soul as it had better spec than the e-niro but a work colleague has done nearly 10,000 miles in his e-niro and loves it.

I’m running a 2015 Leaf… it was the cheapest car I could find in terms of cost of ownership. As a runaround it’s pretty hard to fault. The range is enough for me, and I’m charging for pennies at home off a standard socket. They seem pretty bulletproof – more than a few people I know just use them as second cars, don’t hear about problems. 2015 is a good year to look for as some of the earlier ‘Mk2 ‘ batter packs (2013?) had problems… I’m down to 11 of 12 bars so some battery degredation. They’re super easy to drive , especially round town, and plenty nippy enough.
I live Norway and use it as my main car for climbing trips . Takes some planning, but easier than you’d imagine.

Norway is miles ahead of the U.K. with their charging structure, seriously impressive.

Norway is miles ahead of the U.K. with their charging structure,

Tesla excepting that wouldn’t be difficult

It’s way beyond that.

I went for the soul too and love it. Niro felt like we were always peering over the bonnet as used to vans/Doblo/panda. Also it came with all the bells and whistles plus a bigger commercial discount, as it’s weird looking. But we love it. My skateboard fits in the hidden trunk with the charger, but you can also get really nice froot conversion boxes too. We don’t have a home charger but 200m away from a few 7kw, and a few miles away from a bunch of 50kw. Show up at 20%, go on a 10k trail run, leave at 85, commute for the week, repeat.

ID3 has a bike rack option but I’ve not been able to fathom quite what it is, looks to be a not-a-towbar for a special rack.

Came across this and it looks to be a proper removable towbar, very neatly fitting behind the number plate, which flips down to access. Car itself has no tow rating but bar is rated for 55kg/2 bikes. £390 if optioned, retrofit for £850.

ID3 is going up my shortlist, base “Life” spec is decent and hefty discounts on offer.

Quite like the sounds of the ID3 and 4, but rear wheel drive?

What’s the problem with RWD?

The Zoé is poor uphill in mud/snow because the (battery) weight is evenly distributed, RWD would improve that. FWD usually benefits from weight over the driving wheels but the battery weight negated that.

No drive shafts at the front usually means a tighter turning cicle. A lower bonnet line means better visibility and aerodynamics.

“New pure-electric Citroen e-Berlingo launched with 170-mile range | Auto Express” https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/berlingo/98973/new-pure-electric-citroen-e-berlingo-launched-170-mile-range?amp

Finally getting useful ranges in useful cars

Might be tempted soon. Although I’ll wait to see what real world milage is.

Quite like the sounds of the ID3 and 4, but rear wheel drive?

I’m afraid that’s ICE thinking. Like Edukator said in BEV’s there’s no engine up front to press the front wheels down so no advantage to FWD for traction. The battery, the heaviest component, is likely to be in a skateboard with the weight equally distributed under the car. Also there’s no transmission tunnel even if the BEV is RWD.

Yep, everything mainstream went FWD once diffs and CV joints capable of it became a thing, it allowed much better packaging and was cheaper to build. Traction in snow from having the heaviest bit over the wheels was a happy side-effect.

Now with bespoke electric cars like the ID3 on a skateboard arrangement they can tuck the (small) motor under the boot floor right by the driven wheels (keeping motor and driven wheels together like a FWD ICE car), shorten the bonnet and pull the driver forward, giving loads of interior space. You get some of the RWD dynamic benefits, can do big steering lock for tighter turning circles, and as said the traction in snow won’t be as bad as an old ICE RWD car with all the weight in the nose.

As ever, better cold weather tyres are far more important than which wheels the car provides power to.

As ever, better cold weather tyres are far more important

Anyone put full winters on a proper EV yet. Id be interested to know what the % range drop is as our cars spend 6-8 months a year on winters.

Yes. I’m on full winters as are hopefully all other cars in Norway. Non issue assuming you buy decent winters – I’m running Conti Vikingcontact on a Gen1 Leaf

I’m on Nokian WRD3s and there’s a noticeable.mpg decrease so I just wondered what the % drop.was in terms of EV range.

*I didn’t think that no one in.the world had fitted winters to an EV I meant any one here.

Anyone put full winters on a proper EV yet. Id be interested to know what the % range drop is as our cars spend 6-8 months a year on winters.

The drop in battery perforce will out weight changing the tyres.

Having driven 3 different EVs since 2015 I’d say about 30% down on best summer range when temps are down in the low single figures, very approximate differences from my poor memory Zoe 100+ miles vs 70, Soul EV 135 vs 100, MG ZS EV 170 vs 125. Charge rates in winter can be poor depending on battery chemistry and thermal management, MG ZS EV (and the MG5) seem poor in this respect and can easily top out at 20kW when cold.

Car itself has no tow rating but bar is rated for 55kg/2 bikes

I would be a bit concerned at putting a bar on a car with no tow rating; I think it might invalidate the type approval. Not sure what the legal consequences of that are but at the least I’d check with the insurance company, they need to be told of any mods anyway and I wouldn’t take the risk of not making clear that it’s not manufacturer approved.

As per the video, it’s an official option and the aperture has a sticker making the tow rating (none) clear.

It looks to be a properly engineered towbar, wouldn’t surprise me if they do go through approval for markets like Norway that like to tow small trailers.

Companies like Brink already do towbars for cars like the e-Niro for bike rack use – not a problem as long as you don’t tow with it.

The newly announced Hyundai ioniq 5 looks very impressive. 800v charging, so when you do hook up to a proper fast charger it should be able to hold the high charge rate up to 80% at least (much like the porsche taycan). As the hyundai/kia cars so far have proven fairly efficient, think this could be a winner (price aside).
No idea about tow bars for bike racks yet.

Yes, I’d agree with that range drop number compared to summer, plus the drop in charge rate. I think it’s hard to simply get that much charge in a battery if it’s allowed to sit charging at a low temp. I don’t know if the Korean cars are affected the same way as they don’y use all the battery – but I imagine it’s been tested (Bjorn Nyland on youtube)

We’ve put full winter tyres on our DS3. Battery performance would appear to have been more impacted by the cold weather, dropping forecast range down from around 180miles to closer to 100.

Interesting comments about the RWD/FWD – would be interesting to compare performance in the snow. Certainly ours without winter tyres was awful, but did amazing once the good tyres were on.

As per the video, it’s an official option and the aperture has a sticker making the tow rating (none) clear.

Ah, sorry, misunderstood – got you now. A towbar that’s labelled as not for towing with, rather than a towbar fitted to car that’s not designed for one. I’d still tell my insurance, but more likely to be acceptable to them.

We’ve put full winter tyres on our DS3. Battery performance would appear to have been more impacted by the cold weather, dropping forecast range down from around 180miles to closer to 100.

Useful info. Thanks

Unfortunately simply saying it’s irrelevant as the temperature performance will hit it harder isn’t a help as you don’t get a choice between them the issues compound.

The past few weeks of really cold temps my Kia showed on average 215 miles on a charge. The past week in the warmer weather it has gone up slightly.

My 30kWh Soul EV was great, seriously thinking about getting rid of the MG once the 64kWh e-Soul ex-lease cars hit the used market, Kia/Hyundai have a really sorted EV setup. The MG has been sort of disappointing with it’s charge rate, efficiently, software bugs, odd design choices and very mixed customer service.

It was the predicted range and good reviews especially of the battery why I went for the Kia. Really liked the looks of the Peugeot but reviews of real-world range put me off it. Unfortunately, Tesla wasn’t an option for me to have.

I’ve got a Thule rack and had a tow-bar fitted to my Focus but I never liked leaving my bike on show at service stations which as an EV they would be while it’s charging on some journeys unless you sit in the car while it’s doing it and went back to putting them in the car.

Stock tyres were okay for me in the few days of snow we had.

Winter tires are not just for snow. A bit like dogs are not just for Xmas.

I probably live much further north than you and typical driving times the road temp is >7c

I thought dogs were just for lockdown?

Yea the road temps here have been tropical 🙄

It may be semantics but my change between summer and winter is in consumption per mile, not in battery charge as such. I have not seen my battery either take less of a charge or charge more slowly on AC in colder weather. However the consumption differences can be marked.

For a long journey I work on the basis of winter temps alone adding 10%, wind/rain can add another 10%.

For multiple short journeys the issue is compounded to bigger effects. Perhaps a lot bigger. I think the reason is largely because regenerative braking is reduced during up to the first half hour on a cold battery but then use of heating is going to be more too.

I don’t think my winter tyres have a noticeable effect, all else being equal. It looks like “summer” consumption to me for any journey in decent conditions about 10°c+. There are winter tyres and winter tyres of course – mine are maybe more a UK than Skandi model.

High power DC charging can be much slower when the battery is cold, however DC charging is going to be on a journey, so after warming the battery, in nearly all cases. And UK temps aren’t often that low. Only ever charging DC on a long journey, and rarely doing it at all (not once this winter) I haven’t seen this myself.

NB there are things you can do to help, mostly timing charging so it finishes soonish before you drive. Then the battery is warm from charging at departure, so regen is as normal. Can also turn heating on while plugged in just before you leave, which helps mitigate effect of cold on range, but uses power to do so. I only consider these tactics if I’m doing a journey that needs the range.

Ioniq 5 does look rather nice and with Hyundai effeciency it should be very good. Is it a mini SUV or a traditional hatchback? It looks like they’ve kept a reasonable lid on inflating it to SUV proportions.

I took delivery of my E-Tron 50 in October, initially I was getting around 150 miles but once the cooler weather came it dropped to 140. Charging speeds didn’t change however as it’s VAG it keeps charging at full until around 80% then slowly drops off.  I reckon 160 to 170 max is what I’ll get in warmer weather.

This site is very good at real world estimates

https://ev-database.uk/

The problem with buying any of these cars is that you know that whatever you buy it will be horribly out of date in 5 years

That + the fact batteries wear out + very favourable terms + no benefit-in-kind tax was why we went for a lease rather than buy.

Certainly ours without winter tyres was awful, but did amazing once the good tyres were on.

Missus couldn’t get our Leaf up our street in the snow with normal tyres.

May just be lack of experience, as we’re both much more used to manual petrol/diesel cars, but she found the whole one-pedal-no-gears experience very difficult to control in snow and ice. Car developed an “e-Pedal error” message after a wheel spin and had to be reset at a garage. 😲