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Octopus do Agile Octopus which tracks wholesale price in 30 minute chunks - cheap overnight and sometimes negative when the wind blows
I was double keen on an ID4 as my next company car until I saw that the UK isn't getting the top spec model. Things like the pano roof, electric tailgate and fancy LEDs are nice but not deal breakers but the lack of Traffic Assist (the self steering function, Lane Assist isn't the same) is crap. I suppose you don't miss what you've never had but I do some long journeys with work and saw it being a game changer when paired with adaptive cruise. Oh well, First Edition interior is bloody minging IMO
Skoda Enyaq seems to be in the same boat spec wise for the UK. Can I blame Brexit? I feel I ought to be allowed to.
Anyone able to help regarding home charging setups?
Dumb question is how to run the cable without taking up floors, and what cables needs running?
Less dumb question is what drives a need for adding a separate earth?
My electricity meter is underneath the stairs in the hall, logical place for a charging point is outside wall by garage/drive - I have rooms in-between the two and no access under the house (suspended wooden floors) to run cable. Cable length could be maybe 10m.
An electrician we used commented about potential (pun not intended) for needing a separate earth, that would mean digging up the driveway (concrete slab). He said that next door's installation, not dissimilar to what we would need, would certainly need one but I don't get what drives that. He went on to say he would not entertain installing chargers for people, rattled off a list of concerns about critical mass, danger relating to earths and how many installs he has seen that are unsafe.
What electricity supplier/tarif are folk using?
https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/ev-energy-tariffs/ the only one that's not on this list is Agile Octopus as it's not specifically sold as an EV tariff.
An electrician we used commented about potential (pun not intended) for needing a separate earth,
You can buy units that don't need them ie podpoint, but also my understanding is it's just a rod so the installer would presumably just drill a hole thru the concrete and insert the earth rod (I'm not an electrician).
https://pod-point.com/electric-car-news/earth-rod-details
My electricity meter is underneath the stairs in the hall, logical place for a charging point is outside wall by garage/drive – I have rooms in-between the two and no access under the house (suspended wooden floors) to run cable. Cable length could be maybe 10m.
Any chance you can get under the floor? We've just had a pod-point installed (no earth rod needed) and our meter is under the stairs. The installer team made noises about running conduit so I spent a Sunday lifting floorboards and the chap ran it under the floor, stuck a junction on the external wall and ran the armoured cable along the bottom of the wall to the box.
He was really helpful, clean and tidy but I don't doubt it would have been up and over door frames if I hadn't cleared a route. You also have to evidence properly earthed water which involved lifting more boards.
running cables is the main advantage of having a suspended floor
Getting under will be tricky given the flooring on top, I'll lift boards in the meter cupboard and see if I can see anything at all - no idea which way the joists run.
Is as much an issue on the external wall as anything, it's raised so can come out under floor level but without lifting floor above not sure how would route conduit to it.
An electrician we used commented about potential (pun not intended) for needing a separate earth,
I had this the gas meter and water mains weren’t earthed so he would not activate the charger until it was. So I installed from the gas meter to the earthing point he installed for the pod point. As my water stop cock is buried behind the dishwasher and my kitchen a concrete floor I attached an earth under the sink through the wall and earth spiked it. The installed came back checked the earth points and activated the meter. When I say I installed the earth I mean an friend who’s an electrician who has moved away and phone numbered lost and can’t recall his name.
Think Zappi doesn't need an earth rod either.
If the cable run is complex or you're fussy about exactly how it's installed, definitely worth using a local OLEV installer rather than one of the majors like ChargedEV or Podpoint. They sub out their installs, try to get them done in minimum time and effort - if it's non-standard you'll get charged more and might not be too happy about the solutions they come up with to run the cable.
OLEV installer list is here, they can all do it with the grant but how exactly they do it is down to their skills and the time you want to throw at it.
With my Pod-Point I sent photos of where I wanted it installed the preferred route. The guy was excellent even suggested a friend installed the earthed points rather an electrician as parts are cheap and it was easy to do.
Has anyone got an e-Niro?
I might be in the position of getting a company car very soon and I'm hoping to go full electric. e-Niro, ID3 or 4 are the top contenders, but I don't actually know if any of them are on the list yet.
Requirements are decent sized boot for work tools, hatchback/estate for ease of access, tow bar for bike rack and 250 mile range. Anything else to consider?
Dont own (an e-Niro) but I've driven one and thought it good, and that's a common opinion. I'd rather have one than an id3 (driven also) and the id4 doesn't exist yet. I'm inevitably going to get something new at some point (currently on an old Leaf) and it's near the top of my list.
Hyundai Kona? Kia SOul 64kWh... but they're effectively the same as the Kia. I haven't driven any of the frendh offerings, and Audi et al are too much.
i Pace? They're good
The problem with buying any of these cars is that you know that whatever you buy it will be horribly out of date in 5 years as battery tech is increasing and price is dropping pretty quickly,, but you can't wait forever. Battery price now is at the point it should be an equivalent price to buy electric or ICE version, and soon electric will be cheaper.
eniro doesn’t have an official towbar, but Brink do a special bike rack only one for it. Sadly none for the Soul yet.
ID3 has a bike rack option but I’ve not been able to fathom quite what it is, looks to be a not-a-towbar for a special rack.
ID4 has a real towbar as an option and a reasonable tow rating. It also really neatly folds away, no scrabbling on the floor to fit or remove a detachable swan neck part.
5-year old Tesla Model S doesn't look horribly out of date to me, wbo. Nor does an 8-year old Renault Zoé (if you have one I suspect you'd have opted for the 40kWh battery upgrade by now). On the other a Nissan Juke... well read the thread.
I hadn't noticed prices dropping but it's true you're getting more range for your money, but there's a limit to that as the battery isn't the only part of the car.
Another thing that's helping the price comparison is the increasing cost of ICE engines which have to be equipped with ever increasing gubbins to meet emissions standards. Dacias have gone up about 3000-5000e as the engines used in the base models have been outlawed and the base models now have sophisticated units with turbos, variable valve timing, electric pumps... from the Renault engine plant.
If you can charge at home and do average to above average mileage there's a good chance there's an electric that's economically viable for you right now.
eniro doesn’t have an official towbar, but Brink do a special bike rack only one for it. Sadly none for the Soul yet.
I called Kia today and apparently the e-Niro now has a compatible tow bar. As it's a lease car it'll have to be an OEM tow bar won't it?
Things EV are moving more quickly than things ICE, perhaps, but I wouldn't necessarily be put off by that. If it meets your needs today and you don't think your needs will change, then I wouldn't be concerned. Battery tech is changing incrementally but what you buy isn't all that bleeding edge and the main change is how many kWh for your money. Once bought that's in the past. They're still kWh.
As above, older Teslas and Zoes etc are still good cars now if you thought them good cars then.
Range, however... Don't let a quoted 250 miles make you believe you'll happily drive 250 miles up the motorway without needing a charge. Find out what others with the same car tend to average in terms of Wh/mile or miles/kWh and expect something around that, then adjust for avoiding the bottom 20% and remember that in the worst weather you might consume 20% more than on a dry summer's day. But don't fear a long journey either, just plan a lunch stop.
On the range, my Kia Soul says up to 270 miles but that's perfect driving conditions yet over the past few months a full charge predicts on average 215 miles. I'll admit the way I drive probably doesn't help and with the heater on and I do accelerate hard and drive to the speed limits.
I've had the car for 4 months and yet to do a very long journey but I'm still very happy with my choice.
On the Sould it does has a very large upright window screen that does seem to attract stone chips.
Not sure if it's been covered - I need to read the full thread but am trying to get MrsRNP into a cheap (£4k ish)MK1 Leaf for her local commuting <20miles a day.
She's not recovered well from long Covid and struggles walking when it's damp and our big old V70 isn't ideal for short journeys.
We can charge off street via 13amp and have 3phase in our house.
Would love a new EV but I'm a bangernomics/keep cars as long as possible. Maintaining EV tech doesn't bother me - I'm familiar with industrial thyristor/DC/bus systems etc.
So to stop waffling is anyone else running a first gen MK1 leaf?
Worldclassaccident is running a MK1 leaf.
Re the eniro, I've had a Tesla model 3 for 2 winters now but want a hatchback so also looking at eniro, id3 and maybe even a leaf 40 if I can live with the reduced range (not sure I can in winter if my M3 winter reduced range is anything to measure by). So I'd also be interested if anyone has one or has driven id3.
Hyundai Kona driver here. Its basically a re-skinned e-Niro/Soul. I'd be hard pressed to look past the e-Niro. There's nothing the ID3 does better than the e-Niro except it can charge at 100kw but in the real world even if you can find a 100kw charger you'll never see a 100kW charge. Once you have specced up an ID3 to the same spec as an e-Niro it will be at least the same price. FFS VW even charge you extra to have heat pump HVAC which comes standard with the e-Niro. Also the interior of the VW looks cheap and nasty. The days when VW had the edge in quality over far eastern competition are gone.
@doomanic You didn't say how long your company lease would be but as others have said EV tech is changing fast just now so if I was leasing an EV privately I'd do it on 2 year term. If you are undecided between EV and ICE remember benefit-in-kind for an EV is 0% this year rising to 1% next year vs 20-30% for an ICE car. Even if you go for a PHEV your benefit in kind will still be 10%.
Only the highest 4+ spec eNiro comes with a heat pump now.
I went for the Soul as it had better spec than the e-niro but a work colleague has done nearly 10,000 miles in his e-niro and loves it.
I'm running a 2015 Leaf... it was the cheapest car I could find in terms of cost of ownership. As a runaround it's pretty hard to fault. The range is enough for me, and I'm charging for pennies at home off a standard socket. They seem pretty bulletproof - more than a few people I know just use them as second cars, don't hear about problems. 2015 is a good year to look for as some of the earlier 'Mk2 ' batter packs (2013?) had problems... I'm down to 11 of 12 bars so some battery degredation. They're super easy to drive , especially round town, and plenty nippy enough.
I live Norway and use it as my main car for climbing trips . Takes some planning, but easier than you'd imagine.
Norway is miles ahead of the U.K. with their charging structure, seriously impressive.
Norway is miles ahead of the U.K. with their charging structure,
Tesla excepting that wouldn't be difficult
It’s way beyond that.
I went for the soul too and love it. Niro felt like we were always peering over the bonnet as used to vans/Doblo/panda. Also it came with all the bells and whistles plus a bigger commercial discount, as it's weird looking. But we love it. My skateboard fits in the hidden trunk with the charger, but you can also get really nice froot conversion boxes too. We don't have a home charger but 200m away from a few 7kw, and a few miles away from a bunch of 50kw. Show up at 20%, go on a 10k trail run, leave at 85, commute for the week, repeat.
ID3 has a bike rack option but I’ve not been able to fathom quite what it is, looks to be a not-a-towbar for a special rack.
Came across this and it looks to be a proper removable towbar, very neatly fitting behind the number plate, which flips down to access. Car itself has no tow rating but bar is rated for 55kg/2 bikes. £390 if optioned, retrofit for £850.
ID3 is going up my shortlist, base “Life” spec is decent and hefty discounts on offer.
Quite like the sounds of the ID3 and 4, but rear wheel drive?
What's the problem with RWD?
The Zoé is poor uphill in mud/snow because the (battery) weight is evenly distributed, RWD would improve that. FWD usually benefits from weight over the driving wheels but the battery weight negated that.
No drive shafts at the front usually means a tighter turning cicle. A lower bonnet line means better visibility and aerodynamics.
"New pure-electric Citroen e-Berlingo launched with 170-mile range | Auto Express" https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/berlingo/98973/new-pure-electric-citroen-e-berlingo-launched-170-mile-range?amp
Finally getting useful ranges in useful cars
Might be tempted soon. Although I'll wait to see what real world milage is.
Quite like the sounds of the ID3 and 4, but rear wheel drive?
I'm afraid that's ICE thinking. Like Edukator said in BEV's there's no engine up front to press the front wheels down so no advantage to FWD for traction. The battery, the heaviest component, is likely to be in a skateboard with the weight equally distributed under the car. Also there's no transmission tunnel even if the BEV is RWD.
Yep, everything mainstream went FWD once diffs and CV joints capable of it became a thing, it allowed much better packaging and was cheaper to build. Traction in snow from having the heaviest bit over the wheels was a happy side-effect.
Now with bespoke electric cars like the ID3 on a skateboard arrangement they can tuck the (small) motor under the boot floor right by the driven wheels (keeping motor and driven wheels together like a FWD ICE car), shorten the bonnet and pull the driver forward, giving loads of interior space. You get some of the RWD dynamic benefits, can do big steering lock for tighter turning circles, and as said the traction in snow won't be as bad as an old ICE RWD car with all the weight in the nose.
As ever, better cold weather tyres are far more important than which wheels the car provides power to.
As ever, better cold weather tyres are far more important
Anyone put full winters on a proper EV yet. Id be interested to know what the % range drop is as our cars spend 6-8 months a year on winters.
Yes. I'm on full winters as are hopefully all other cars in Norway. Non issue assuming you buy decent winters - I'm running Conti Vikingcontact on a Gen1 Leaf
I'm on Nokian WRD3s and there's a noticeable.mpg decrease so I just wondered what the % drop.was in terms of EV range.
*I didn't think that no one in.the world had fitted winters to an EV I meant any one here.
Anyone put full winters on a proper EV yet. Id be interested to know what the % range drop is as our cars spend 6-8 months a year on winters.
The drop in battery perforce will out weight changing the tyres.
Having driven 3 different EVs since 2015 I'd say about 30% down on best summer range when temps are down in the low single figures, very approximate differences from my poor memory Zoe 100+ miles vs 70, Soul EV 135 vs 100, MG ZS EV 170 vs 125. Charge rates in winter can be poor depending on battery chemistry and thermal management, MG ZS EV (and the MG5) seem poor in this respect and can easily top out at 20kW when cold.
Car itself has no tow rating but bar is rated for 55kg/2 bikes
I would be a bit concerned at putting a bar on a car with no tow rating; I think it might invalidate the type approval. Not sure what the legal consequences of that are but at the least I'd check with the insurance company, they need to be told of any mods anyway and I wouldn't take the risk of not making clear that it's not manufacturer approved.
As per the video, it’s an official option and the aperture has a sticker making the tow rating (none) clear.
It looks to be a properly engineered towbar, wouldn’t surprise me if they do go through approval for markets like Norway that like to tow small trailers.
Companies like Brink already do towbars for cars like the e-Niro for bike rack use - not a problem as long as you don’t tow with it.
The newly announced Hyundai ioniq 5 looks very impressive. 800v charging, so when you do hook up to a proper fast charger it should be able to hold the high charge rate up to 80% at least (much like the porsche taycan). As the hyundai/kia cars so far have proven fairly efficient, think this could be a winner (price aside).
No idea about tow bars for bike racks yet.
Yes, I'd agree with that range drop number compared to summer, plus the drop in charge rate. I think it's hard to simply get that much charge in a battery if it's allowed to sit charging at a low temp. I don't know if the Korean cars are affected the same way as they don'y use all the battery - but I imagine it's been tested (Bjorn Nyland on youtube)
We've put full winter tyres on our DS3. Battery performance would appear to have been more impacted by the cold weather, dropping forecast range down from around 180miles to closer to 100.
Interesting comments about the RWD/FWD - would be interesting to compare performance in the snow. Certainly ours without winter tyres was awful, but did amazing once the good tyres were on.
As per the video, it’s an official option and the aperture has a sticker making the tow rating (none) clear.
Ah, sorry, misunderstood - got you now. A towbar that's labelled as not for towing with, rather than a towbar fitted to car that's not designed for one. I'd still tell my insurance, but more likely to be acceptable to them.
We’ve put full winter tyres on our DS3. Battery performance would appear to have been more impacted by the cold weather, dropping forecast range down from around 180miles to closer to 100.
Useful info. Thanks
Unfortunately simply saying it's irrelevant as the temperature performance will hit it harder isn't a help as you don't get a choice between them the issues compound.