The demise of the record store

I used to love browsing record shops. Some of the best stuff I’ve got has been bought completely randomly on the “hmmmmmmmmmmm that looks interesting” basis

Have you never been to a music shop at least once a week and hung out and maybe get to chat to people/staff and maybe still bump in to them and chat 20/30 years later? No? Well in my opinion and experience I think that you are really missing out.

Some excellent points made there. 🙂

emsz – it’s the tactile thing, the browsing thing, eyes being opened thing, curiosity thing. I don’t want a clinical shopping experience from itunes or wherever!

Does that make sense?

cinnamon_girl – Member
emsz – it’s the tactile thing, the browsing thing, eyes being opened thing, curiosity thing. I don’t want a clinical shopping experience from itunes or wherever!

Plus a good record shop might have somewhere to actually listen to the music properly before you buy, rather than through a tinny computer sample.

ANYWAY, if kids today don’t go into record shops, where the hell did all those crowds of them come from in HMV over Xmas. I couldn’t get to the two CD racks because of the little…………..

“Everything is free now….”

Apart from several hundred quids worth of PC, perhaps a similar sum for MP3 player if you want to move your music around and £200 – £300 per year for phone and broadband, everything is indeed free.

As a graphic designer who’s designed album covres in the past, the sleeve artwork is a sad loss in itself

I love you Binners and want Hora to have your babies.

It’s so, so true. Not only is a lot of current music formulaic soulless bilge, the ‘artwork’ is truly dire too. I had to do a couple of DnB CD covers once. I’m not proud of them. 😳

It was still better than stuff like this mind:

Revolting.

Less is more…

I think the death knell was sounded for record shops when cd’s took over.

A LP was a THING, an artefact and could be a thing of joy and beauty. EDIT: I have bought albums purely on the strength of their cover, and not been disappointed. Just about every Blue Note album for instance…

A cd cover is a piddling little thing that has no impact.

People don’t miss a cover coz its not really worth having really.

I still buy cd’s. But I mainly do it over the internet as its cheaper and you have access to just about everything available (not so in a shop).

What I do miss though is the going in to a shop and going ‘what is that playing?’ coz it was great. Or even walking in to a shop and being asked for £5, handing it over and walking out with the first Galaxie 500 elpee (thanks Kevin @ Avalanche). Amazon recommends just aint the same.

It is a sad day (but its day is over).

I think so CG. I can browse through iTunes though and play 30 second samples (or listen to the whole track on Spotify) and then there’s Genius (a sort of ” if you like this try this” function) Different way of doing the same thing. I think if I was you I’d have been doing the same thing when shops were about

The only thing I can see that shops have is the actual CD. I can understand why for some people that would be important. But I tend not to buy whole albums much so it’s not much use for me

1. You can’t skin up on a download.

2. I actually still prefer vinyl to CD and the awful sonic mess that is MP3- to me (and many other people) it sounds better and more ‘natural’.

3. Also, you develop a relationship over time with vinyl – each little click, pop and hiss is personal to you If you scatch it too badly, you have to go and buy a new one. That’ll teach you to have a bit more respect for music next time…..

4. The length of an LP is just about right – not too long to get bored, but long enough to be interesting. Teaches bands to be more disciplined as well.

5. Vinyl smells nice.

You can’t skin up on a download.

This, ladies and gentlemen, encapsulates all that is wrong with the World today. 🙁

I’m a bit in two different camps on this one.

On the one hand, when I buy music, I like to have the hard copy (CD usually, vinyl if I can find it!) complete with all the artwork, sleeve notes, and even the lyrics printed in a tiny tiny font that you can barely read. Mrs_d isn’t as bothered about that so will happily accept downloads. But as soon as I’ve downloaded it, I get the artwork & take a few minutes to burn a CD and print off a basic copy of the album art.

But making music – well, as a member of an active band, we have done studio sessions and it’s still as hard work as it always was, except these days the actual recording media is digital rather than a 50mm wide band of magnetic tape. This is a good thing. Tape stretches, snaps, hisses and restricts you to a maximum of 24 different instrument tracks. Bear in mind that my 7 piece drum kit used 14 different microphones, that’s over half the available recording media gone already. Add guitars, bass and 2 or three vocals and there’s no room for anything extra such as strings (not that we’ve ever needed them)

Digital studios have no such restriction – although in practice you’ll find it hard to find a mixing desk with more than 48 channels – but that leaves so much room for everything else once the drums are down.

As an unsigned band, if we want to sell CDs at our gigs, we can, although we have to produce them ourselves. Not a major problem, so much quicker and easier than the old C60/C90 cassette, and more durable too. But the digital download revolution has made it soooo much easier for us to get our songs out to the wider world. We’ve sold/given away copies of our songs in Canada, USA, Australia, all over Europe, things we could never have dreamed of pre-download.

So as a musician, particularly an unsigned one (and face it, the record companies aren’t signing new bands these days, not very often anyway), I say “yay” for digital downloads. It’s not my choice as a music buyer, but as a music maker, we can’t do without it.

Back to the original point, I think, I’ve rambled on enough already; back in the day, a band would tour to promote its new single/album and the gigs would be relatively cheap. Now, the single/album is used to promote the tour; the single/album, is relatively cheap but the band, tour crew, PA & lighting systems, merchandise (that’s another cash cow BTW) and catering still has to be paid for – hence the price you pay to see a live band.

My favourite band, New Model Army, cost me £17.50 per ticket last time I saw them, last June – very good VFM in my opinion, especially considering how long a set you get and how much effort they put into every gig.

The Sisters Of Mercy are playing Leeds next month and the tickets are £25 each. Still reasonable you might think, but half of their set is pre-recorded – drum machine, bass & keyboards are all pre-programmed, leaving just Eldritch & his two guitarists to actually do any work. Not quite as good VFM as NMA, IMHO. I might have to think hard about that one; if it was NMA I wouldn’t even blink before reaching for my wallet

You can’t skin up on a download.

No, it just encapsulates so much about why a lot of people object to internet music.

I think music as a thing is still intangible enough that it should be more than just a commodity, which is exactly what it is becoming. Having an experience buying the CD, or actually having to find the CD somewhere, is a part of that for me. Having the same CDs that littered my student flats and now bare the scars of that is also a part of it. Opening my copy of White Light/White Heat and having an ancient, flattened, half smoked joint fall out of it made my week 😀

There are so many CDs that I would like to buy that I could spend a fortune on Amazon, and I wouldn’t feel any better for it than when I finally found “Alive as ****” by the Black Diamond Heavies in Rough Trade in London.

I appreciate these are VERY subjective reasons for liking CDs and CD shopping, but I’m not going to reduce my music listening experience to clicking on a file name…

I’ve never owned a vinyl record, my Dads got some that I’ve listened to, but I don’t own any. I’ve got CDs but I can’t remember the last time I’ve listened to one.

Opening my copy of White Light/White Heat and having an ancient, flattened, half smoked joint fall out of it made my week

Joy of joys! 😀

I worked for a brief period at Reckless Records in Berwick st. Found a Nurse With Wound album that was going for about £15, had an interesting cover. I later discovered this album now sells for much, much more for some reason. There were other interesting bits, but not being a vinyl afficionado, I din’t realise some of the stuff we had would become very sought after. That Pansonic record I gave my mate is now worth a pretty penny if unwrapped. CDs never have such appeal in terms of collectibility. An album was about more than just the music.

Much of the stuff today isn’t even about the music, but the image. There’s just nothing worth holding onto, such is the fleeting and transient nature of today’s music ‘scene’. 🙁

I’m with C_G on this…

The beardy guy down the LRS is so much more fun to chat to music about than ‘genius’ or whatever it’s called on iTunes. He recommends things that iTunes never would.
I also like owning the CD, I like seeing them lined up on my shelves at home.
I enter someone’s house and the space taken up by their music is an indicator of them as a person. I can rifle through them when they head to the toilet to find any guilty secrets.
I like buying an album without listening to it, based on beardy guys recommendation, or coz it had a cool box, or just because it grabbed my attention. If I really like something I’ve downloaded I still feel I have to own it properlu as well.

I love vinyl, it is the format of choice in my house. It sounds better (and no I don’t have a 10grand stereo to play it on) There’s a connection between you and the record, you have to turn it over mid way through, you don’t just press a button and forget about it.

Unfortunately, the steps forward in technology usually come at a cost and the masses tend to win when the choice is being made. There doesn’t seem to be any room for both and as we’re told that we all need an i-pod or some other device that’ll be out of date in a year, we start believing it and there’s no room for the small record store in our lives anymore.

Ironically I bought High Fidelity by Nick Hornby today (my second favourite book and had to replace the copy I lost) but it wasn’t for the Kindle I can tell thee’

This is my local shop:

Muse Music, Hebden.

CD Sid, the owner, is a nice bloke & a bit of a local legend, but that Clear Blue Sky album he recommended a year or so back was bloody awful……

The beardy guy down the LRS is so much more fun to chat to music about than ‘genius’ or whatever it’s called on iTunes. He recommends things that iTunes never would.

Exactly, Apple would never say “so I see you like old blues music, here, try this Royal Trux album”

That’s the kind of weird stuff that was palmed off to me…….luckily it was fantastic

Aha – quite a cross section of opinions now.

john_drummer – your post was quite enlightening, never thought of that angle before and has obviously worked for your band.

TSY – really, judging folk on their muzak collection. 😯 Please don’t come to C_G Towers as you may think I’m obsessive. 🙄

Actually, another thing I like to do is rummage through the secondhand section. It’s quite exciting. 8)

Too right. I was given Danny & The Champions of the World, by beardy LRS guy, one of the best albums from last year.

Also… WTF is that dude going to do without the LRS. It’s his home, it’s where he belongs. I’m prepared to pay more just to make sure he doesn’t have to work anywhere else.

buy the CD’s at gig’s folks!!

C_G – I already know you’re obsessive… what is it 56 Van albums or something?

You know what I mean though, right? I don’t have to like anything they have in their music collection… but someone who’s got just 12 albums?? That just ain’t right!

clinical shopping experience

I still vividly recall a shopping trip to Bath in 1993, during which I went into Replay and bought (on vinyl) Spooky’s Little Bullet and Bang Bang Machine’s equally immense Geek Love. Two records which will forever evoke writing A-Level coursework whilst listening to John Peel.

I also brought a Specialized Stars n’ Stripes Airforce II helmet – and all three purchases (and that whole day) have somehow combined in my memory, inna Wordsworth ‘Spots of Time’ stylee.

Ditto, for some reason, buying Connected by the Stereo MCs on tape, whilst visiting Cambridge with my dad.

All no doubt just part of being young, but I doubt I’ll ever feel that way about a download or Amazon, useful though these things are.

I bought a cd by ‘Goats Don’t Shave’ once, based on the band name. It was crapola.

I bought an LP by ‘Velo Deluxé’ (sic) because it was nearly the name of the band i was in at the time. It was pretty bad but not as bad as us. 😳

Rusty Spanner – that shop was mentioned in the BBC news link I posted and it looks quite a place!

TSY – I hope you don’t judge people on whether or not they have a book collection and if so, what it comprises of? 😉

noteeth – yes, yes, it’s the tactile thing.

In my teenage years vinyl LPs were a kind of currency. I’d spend the majority of my pocket money / allowance on new or (more often) second hand albums, then when I was skint and needed cash for booze and fags for the next gathering down the park I’d sell a few back to the second hand store.

Do that with downloads young’uns.

Anyone remember Revolver Records on the Triangle in Bristol? Loved that place.

Once listened to a Motorhead ep (ep huh? Showing my age) in there on headphones and thought “blimey, Motorhead have changed their sound, speeded up a bit”. Bought it anyway, got home and realised that although a 7″ it was 33rpm but the shop guy had played it at 45rpm.

Ep. 33rpm. 45rpm. Buying a new stylus. God I’m feeling nostalgic. Can even remember what certain record shops smelt like.

I’ll stop now……

😳 I can’t read C_G so books don’t bother me.

Rusty Spanner – that shop was mentioned in the BBC news link I posted and it looks quite a place!

Was in the Guardian recently too CG – definitely a dying breed.
For those of us ‘of a certain age’ it’s almost perfect – well worth a look if you’re in the area.

56 Van albums CG?!? That’s quite an achievement 🙂
Nice to see someone who knows what they like…….

billybob – Member
From what I’ve seen, the cost of tickets is reaching a silly level. Are people still prepared to pay? Are all venues sold out?
Seems to me the big gigs are selling out within seconds – however I’ve been to a couple (Oasis/Foo Fighters @ Cardiff springs to mind) where there have been loads of empty seats, but lots of touts outside with handfuls of tickets. So my guess is the touts are artificially increasing prices.

Spectacularly so. Foos at Wembley a prime example, wanted to see KoL last year, but got beaten there on the phones, and the theres a million and one of the things on ebay 10 mins later at vastly inflated rates. The artists/management probably don’t really care as they’ve got a sell out. I won’t pay the stupid prices, but obviously plenty others do else these guys wouldn’t be in business.

buy the CD’s at gig’s folks!!

+1 😉

you can skin up on the top of the laptop that you downloaded onto….

CDs are preferred to vinyl in blind tests, the ‘warmth’ that record lovers go on about is just low level hiss as a result of the inferior signal to noise ratios (and the argument about analogue frequency range outside of

totally agree about HMV, filling the shelves with video’s and tshirts looks like profitable lines only because the CDs are too expensive and they are surviving because they are the only place on the high street

I think that online sales and downloads is a good thing, a more egalitarian method of distribution, and it does’t give itunes too much control as there are lots of other retailers (that don’t lock the purchase to the software)

56 Van albums CG?!? That’s quite an achievement
Nice to see someone who knows what they like…….

I actually feel rather embarrassed by it. 😳

Do of course listen to other artistes, one of whom I have around 30 of and the clue is in my forum name!

But it’s nice to see that these record stores are appreciated and people have fond memories. 8)

a million and one of the things on ebay 10 mins later at vastly inflated rates. The artists/management probably don’t really care as they’ve got a sell out. I won’t pay the stupid prices, but obviously plenty others do else these guys wouldn’t be in business.

absolutely right, the artist mgt like a quick sell out as they invest the ticket money straight away and cancel the ‘not selling out the venue’ insurance

sensible answer is to go to local venues and support local unsigned stuff like johndrummer’s band (or even, ahem, the phoenix big band who play at the Culceth sports and social) as they deserve the cash more than the foos (as much as I like the foo’s). dunno about you but I don’t enjoy the enormodrome venues

I miss the days when CDs felt like they had real value, when I used to make tape copies and then buy the CD if I liked it enough and lo and behold, clarity and fatness and all that in return for the money I spent. As a musician I like being able to produce release quality recordings at minimal cost but it doesn’t make up for the devaluing of recorded music.

I hate big venues, the acoustics don’t work for anything but generic stadium rock and the atmosphere is weird. Big gigs that are properly outdoors aren’t so bad, no stupid echoes messing up the groove. The Astoria was a great size.

I agree entirely, the big venues do sound crap – foos at wembley was a prime one – but with a big act, you don’t get much choice anymore.

Vibes has gone – **** bullshit, that place was a mecca in my yoot

As a point of information – Live band prices are fixed by promoters, the band and/or management have very little or no say in the matter

When you get bands with one hit single and album playing to a sold out MEN or where ever its all a bit silly really

I much prefer to see bands who have paid their dues on the road over decades, that skill cannot be taught and I’m happy to pay for all that sweat and hardwork

Most record shops in the high street are to blame for their own failures. Constant sales, piles of cheap stuff, trying to appeal to everything anyone might ever want, selling mobile phones etc. You only have to look at shops like Rough Trade and the smaller independent shops to see that shops can work if they decide to sell music rather than try to be all things to all people. Mostly I view Zaavi and HMV as DVD shops these days and I’ve bought most of my music from independent shops in the last few years both to support them and, probably, because they stock more of what I like.

As for listening to music in the shop, try going to shops like Kompakt (admittedly it’s in Cologne) where they have dozens of listening posts and the staff will try to help you find something you like and either put it on over the shop system or encourage you to try new things. Try that at HMV and see how far it gets you, they’re usually too busy even though they may well be music fans.

This thread has made me think of the music that defined a few of my school years such as Dalek i, early Human League (so albums like Circus of Death and Travelogue – i.e. before the girls came in a spoilt it) and the British Electric Foundation.
Popped to Amazon and bought a load of tracks that I would never find in a shop – no I will not miss ‘record’ shops at all.
The money is nearly all in concerts now but the tickets are proper expensive. A very good mate of mine is the agent [so handles all the gigs] for a lot of the big concert groups (he’s currently in Brazil if that’s a clue) and he says that he wouldn’t pay the prices being demanded 😯

I read that guy’s book a while back, saw it for sale in our local independant. Sign of the times I guess, I used to really enjoy delving through records shops. Having said that though I also really like the modern equivalent, researching new music online via forums like RYM, then finding samples, similar artists via allmusic etc. Nice way to spend an evening, along with a good single malt 🙂