The "demise" of the high street.

this is all good and well but it will mean a no return scenario for high street environments.

A lot of commercial property is on the balance sheets of fund managers. They use growth/value models that value that property long term. It will take a change in that model, financial meltdown (again) or better regulation for things to change.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Councils are run by idiots, consumers continue to look for cheap products and want to drive their car door to door and not pay to park.

This adds up to the end of the highstreet, ghost towns till Concils wake up, more out of town mega stores and a continued improvement / increase in online buying.

Just look at our online buying – CRC/Wiggle/Superstar – perfect desktop/laptop/palm top shopping with free returns. Who needs a shop now.

*fiddles with new set of wheels ordered online, decides they are nice, mmmm, no need to send them back*

A good high street will be fine.

I’m sure going back 100 years there were corseteers and hatters on every high st. They went, but it wasn’t the demise of the high street, just the demise of that particular item.

Quite obvious that far fewer physical CDs will be sold from now on, and they are very easy to buy online any as you can listen beforehand on the radio or online.

As above – clothes, shoes, food, socialising – that’s what the high street will be more of. And to be honest, 90% of it has been those things for years anyway.

There was a move a few years back to classify all space used by retailers as rateable, in other words to enable taxing the car-park spaces where they were owned by property companies. This would have balanced the cost advantages that out of town centres had, in favour of the high street.
The proposal was lobbied against and died.

The death of the high street is also a function of the increased efficiency of retail space following the introduction of Sunday shopping, if people can shop on more days, they need less space to do so.

Bring back the day of rest!

I personally think its a sad day when you can no longer walk into a shop, flick through records or CDs and walk out of there with a load of random gems. I used to dj, and nothing matched the tune hunt that happened every week, as I listened to hundreds of vinyl tracks on the shop turntables. Going from shop to shop in pursuit of the next big tune. Hmv in Leeds used to have a cracking atmosphere and was one of the shops on the tune hunt route in the city. All have now shut as they have succumbed to the digital age. I’m not some old fart whos down on the internet, but I think its a sad day when every purchase or interaction we make is faceless. Plus Hmv is the only shop I want to go in when the missus drags me round the shops! Where am I going to escape to now? Bloody Apple store!?!

Moses – Member

Bring back the day of rest!

Very appropriate!

I’m sure going back 100 years there were corseteers and hatters on every high st.

Not to forget Haberdasheries and Tinkers….

I don’t think shutting the highstreet would fix the highstreet, wouldn’t it just drive us all online on a sunday, but i guess would put the postal service in good business every tuesday/wednesday.

Saying that would be great not to open on a sunday means i can go biking every weekend!

There needs to be a further movement towards converting a lot of High St. commercial property into residential.

Or something other than conventional retail. A town near me is converting a lot of its High St into combined studio/retail spaces for crafts businesses. I think a lot of towns are going to have to think quickly about what they can do with their high st. With a lot a small towns have grown around the fringes because the town centre was too expensive to break into, all the newest housing and retail stock is around the perimeter and now the centre itself is empty of either useful housing or relevant commercial space – but as a legacy… still too expensive for anyone new to get a foot hold in.

Big shopping centres don’t always work!

St David’s 2 in Cardiff has a lot of tenants in there that are on free rent (some as much as 2 years!). If you go there regularly, you will notice that certain shops, some of them quite major, will move every 6 months or so to take advantage of this. Sometimes just a unit or two down!!
The other problem it has caused is the near-abandonment of the Capitol Centre the other end of town by shoppers due to the big car parks (John Lewis, St Davids 2) being far away from it, despite the fact that all the P&R buses drop everyone off right next to it.

If HMV go, there will be a huge empty building right in the middle of Queen Street, god knows who will move in there (Tesco probably*).

Paradoxically, the arcades full of independent shops are heaving!! Spillers springs immediately to mind!!

* seriously, they hoover up everything, just opened in the old Zavvi/Virgin Megastore!!

The Capitol Centre in a Cardiff is a really good example – it was the smartest bit of Cardiff for shopping but is now pretty much deserted. Newport’s even worse, almost everything’s shut there now.

Dunno if it’s rents or car parking though. Or what the answer is.

High St is changing. Big retail has gone to the Internet. High St going back to the small, individual, specialist retailers.

The Capitol Centre in a Cardiff is a really good example – it was the smartest bit of Cardiff for shopping but is now pretty much deserted.

Well not really a good example. It was the smartest bit until they built a much bigger smarter flashier bit. Cardiff has gained a lot more shopping and eating places, which are always busy and seem to be doing well.

It’s swings and roundabouts. The far end of St Mary’s St used to be quite derilict, as did the end of the Hayes, at the time Capitol was the best address. Now it’s just moved around. The focus has just shifted.

High St is changing. Big retail has gone to the Internet. High St going back to the small, individual, specialist retailers.

This. Jessops and HMV gone from my local high street but we still have independent camera and music shops. I think / hope smaller individual outlets meeting actual customer needs and being able to adapt quickly will be the way forward.

Yep, Spillers is still in Cardiff and there are three indie camera shops which have been there as long as I have.

The high street could open when I’m not at work. And all of Sunday too. I could go to the shops then. Like the supermarkets twigged years ago.

The high street could open when I’m not at work. And all of Sunday too. I could go to the shops then. Like the supermarkets twigged years ago.

indeed – open at 10, close at 6.30 and lo, customers would not be at work at the only time the high street is open.

Seriously, of the specialist shops i would browse and buy in : 1 bike shop, 2 guitar shops, 1 Apple shop, 1 camera shop, ALL are closed on Sunday. And ALL closed by 5pm in the week. It’s annoying, but it saves me lots of cash.

Most city high streets just evolve over time, giving what the customer of the day wants.

When I was little North Street which is on the edge of Leeds town centre had 8 Antique shops. By the late 80s it had one, and the rest of the shops empty.

Most people no longer bought antiques.

Today (streetview shows) one empty unit, and a diverse range of other uses. Once again it’s thriving.

HMV, Jessops are maybe different in as much we still want their products.

Though now there are easier and cheaper ways to buy them.

The death of the high street is partly driven by trends driven by commercial property developers and short sighted planning decisions by local councils.

How many small towns were ‘improved’ by pedestrian schemes that are now covered in CCTV as councils realise that the same areas at night are full of spewing and / or fighting as the pubs chuck out. Making town centres less car friendly while allowing deregulated bus operators to abandon less profitable routes rules out the concept of ‘popping to the shops’

Vanity projects like Bluewater and Westfield seem great at their time but during a recession are a nail in the coffin for neighbouring town centres.

Landlords continued insistence on quarterly rent in advance prevents many independents from starting up. Why take the overhead when it can be done more cheaply and potentially tax free online.

Over zealous traffic wardens. Expensive Local authority parking. Private land clampers. THIS is what has killed the town centre.

It’s certainly having an effect on Chippenham, despite all the retailers begging the council to reduce the car parking costs, and re-introduce a free first hour, the council refuses, saying the car parking fees have had no effect on footfall, and despite having not made any extra money from the car parks after they put the fees up. Oddly enough, though, Trowbridge, the County Town, where the council is based, has free first hour parking, and lower hourly fees.
Why would that be, I wonder…

Chester where i work, is closing down quite fast, the forum shoping centre and market is nearly empty of shops and stalls, the old grosvenor precinct is going the same way,the so called historic rows are so run down and dirty they look like something out of a dickens novel, the councl in its wisdom has bought an old cinema to convert to a theatre arts centre, because thet havent got one, despite closing down the theatre they did have,called the gateway.Frodsham street is full of charity shops as is watergate streeet.and newgate street is going to be redevloped into a 4 seperate large restraunts, taking their use from retail to selling meals.

Where as liverpool has Liverpool one a huge under cover shopping centre, ample parking, a bus station attached, 2 railway stations nearby, and a ferry crossing with free parking on the wirral side.Along with shops people actually want to send money at, limited charity shops, an evans cycle shop,plenty of small cafes and outside seating.Liverpool is kept clean and tidy,traffic wardens are helpful as are the residents, and there are some fantastic free museumns and great arcitecture.

Reasons I don’t ever shop in town>>>>

1) price of parking. Cars cost enough as they are, I don’t ever pay for parking, if paying is the ONLY choice, then bugger it, I won’t go to that Town/City/Area, tough luck for them and their shops.

2) well if I won’t drive to town because of parking I will take bike, except, very few places to lock up, and high risk of theft. so no thanks their either.

3) Internet, yes its cheaper, but if high street offered amazing service & experience but I had to pay for the pleasure, then yeah, I’d pay the difference and reap the amazing customer service and shopping experience, except, erm no, we don’t have a nice shopping experience in 99% of high street shops, so yeah, bugger that.

4) other people. Have you met other people? they are arseholes.

End of BrickRant.

just a badly run company, that has wasted money on a clothing line and a non working IT system and decided in 2003 that digital downloads was going nowhere and an online presence was a waste of time.

other people. Have you met other people? they are arseholes.

I think this is the root of your problem, and has nothing to do with the high street itself 🙂

You could argue the high street just got to big and this is a natural correction weeding out the poorer companies

The high street could open when I’m not at work. And all of Sunday too. I could go to the shops then. Like the supermarkets twigged years ago.

+1

Very common in other countries are town/city centre stores opening through to 9 and 10pm.

Parking (and associated fines) though are seen as a ‘revenue’ by the councils, and one that they’ve been racheting up over the years.

Rents are the main reason the high street shops are struggling. One reason they are so high is that a lot of commercial property is owned by investment funds. These are owned by pension funds. If they lower the rent, the fund value decreases so they refuse to lower the rent. If capitalism worked, supply and demand would cause rents to fall to a level that made the business able to compete with cheap warehouse based Internet postal operations. Couple that with ‘offshore’ none tax paying companies and it is impossible to compete.
I would hate to see the high street die off, but the modern high street offers little I want. The same shops in every town, I hate shopping in these places.
I would welcome a high street with small independant shops, butchers, grocers and so on. Will it ever happen? I hope so.

The high street could open when I’m not at work. And all of Sunday too. I could go to the shops then. Like the supermarkets twigged years ago.

Another +1

Never appreciated a shop that’s only open when I’m at work.

Nearby small town tried to take advantage of free parking after 6pm by late opening of their high street. Was a resounding success. So what did the council do? Extend the need for a ticket from 6pm to 8/9pm. End result.. it’s dead again.

Why dont short sighted councils realise that expensive car parks = empty shops = little revenue.

Free parking = more shops = more business rate revenue.

Don’t forget a lot of the money consumers have been spending on retail for the last 15 years was debt.
We’re now paying off that debt and saving.
There was massive overcapacity in retail, businesses which survived because there was too much money flying around looking for some stuff to buy…
Now we’re thinking a bit more about what we spend our money on, we’re sticking with the businesses which give us what we want, the businesses which were never that good anyway, are going to the wall
It’s a necessary correction… why we got so hooked on shopping as the best idea we could have for spending our spare time is beyond me…

One small town that appears to be doing well is Beeston in Nottingham, it certainly seems busy and has a mix of big chains and independents, despite on the face of it being a bit of a shit hole. This is also despite a huge tesco on the doorstep.

So what has the shit hole next to tesco got going for it? Free parking.