The big, fast(ish), old estate car appreciation thread

Since when is 3-400bhp fast “ish”?

Since cars started weighing the wrong side of 1500kg.
What you need now for fast is 500bhp, but they cancelled the Giulia sportwagon. 😭

250bhp I rate as fast(ish) – my old legacy had 245 BHP and it wasn’t fast but it could shift a little. You’re right, over 300bhp though and you’re into the realms of properly fast, even by todays standards.

This would be the one for me. Shame they never (officially) made them…

Incoming…

…bit ugly though.

Always fancied one of these but like all turbo 90/00s Japanese stuff prices have gone mad…

Nissan Stagea 260RS – essentially an R33 GTR wagon.

Incoming…

Too little, too late in my opinion. They should have started the M3 touring with the E36. Now they’re butt ugly and astronomically expensive.

I have had for the past 6 years a 56 plate (2006) BMW E91 330i. Taken it from 45k to 83k. It’s not that fast now compared to so much modern stuff, but it still goes when you want it to even with an auto box and the straight six engine and rear wheel drive are still lovely.

No reason to change it as it has so much life left in it which is lucky as other than a 340i which is similar but about £25k more expensive, I can’t think what I would actually want other than maybe an Audi S4.

10 years ago I had a C6 Audi RS6 Avant, which was a proper train (5.0 V10 twin turbo). Down to the Alps with 2 bikes in the back, masses of space and speed, it was a brilliant all-rounder for its time. Full bore gearchanges provided your ears with a most welcome thunderclap. But a rather heavy beast when trying to flick it through tight corners.

Friend of mine has just swapped his C6 RS for a C7, he keeps threatening to bring is down to the Alps in July… the C6 was a thirsty thing to say the least, another Friend has a C7, with all this clever cylinder shutdown and 8 speed gearbox it’s positively frugal, he might even see 20mpg! So that’s 3 tanks and £250 in petrol each way.

A 0-60 time of 8s or under is fast-ish to me.

Not sure it qualifies but the current wagon is a mapped Passat GTE. In full go mode it’s 280hp and approaching 500nm. Through the front wheels though so only really good for passes. Heavy too with the battery. Very frugal for the power though.

I’ll shove mine in because its a good story. I bought a Mk1 Octavia vRS new, many moons ago, ran it for a few years then left it with my ex-wife when we split up. She kept it for a couple of years then traded it in

fast forward to a couple of years back and my Mk 4 Golf GTi is on its last legs and I needed a car. I fancied an old Mk1 vRS as I used to love my old one

So I go on Autotrader and the first one comes up is an immaculate one, full service history, low mileage, perfect! Then I look at the number plate. It’s my old one. It had just been listed and it was in a garage 10 minutes away from where I was working at the time. I immediately phone the garage up, he says he’d literally listed it ten minutes earlier, I say I’ll be over in 20 minutes, gave it the once over and bought my old car back again. It was a bargain too 😀

Its got 3 names on the log book: me, the guy who had it in between, then me again. I think we’re just destined to be together

Sod this fast and big malarkey, you want one of these… my first car. 1.5L of ecstasy

I think my favourite fast(ish) estate car that I’ve had was my Misubishi Galant. Looked like nothing, but had the 2.5 V6 engine. Our two current cars are faster and have more power, but it was quick for the time, and just lovely to drive

Also had a Saab 9-5 estate, but that was only the 2.0 Low Pressure Turbo. Was OK for the time though

My estate is neither very old, nor fast. But I really hope they live on in some fashion.

X Type? Just a compromised Mondeo.

Well, after driving mine for the last six years without so much as a hiccup, I have to say that I am not convinced of the criticisms. I know it’s a ‘tarted up’ Mondeo; but ‘compromised’?

As I said when I was asking about them on here before I bought mine: considering Mondeos were quite good, what’s wrong with tarting one up?

I know it’s a ‘tarted up’ Mondeo; but ‘compromised’?

Yup.

The estate is smaller inside than the Mondeo hatch and it’s less comfy (all that stuffed leather looks good but that’s about it). Wasn’t a fan of the infotainment either, was a PITA trying to adjust the climate control and useless whilst driving.

That all said it’s the same powertrain so yes, I’d expect it to be reliable. It’s not a bad car by any means but personally I can’t see past the Mundano.

Never quite as good as the Carlton / Senator it replaced but still a great place to watch the world zoom by while transporting a wardrobe.

Omega Elite

Not big, but definitely old!

Love my E30 Touring. Has been used for everything from daily driver, to bike trips in Morzine, to track days. Never fails to raise a smile!

A 0-60 time of 8s or under is fast-ish to me.

I’m with @molgrips on this one.

Some of these are stratosphericly fast – not fast-ish – and some big compromises around comfort and costs.

The first car, the v70r, is 0-60 in around 7s, and pulls like a train to silly illegal speeds. Yet the (only) one I had a lift in felt comfy and surefooted on the Ullswater lake road, full of bumps and potholes.

I’m not sure some of the 5s, 300hp, rubber band thickness tyres cars would feel as pleasant on such a road.

Big enough? Old enough?

Certainly fast.

I’d consider buying one if they start approaching sensible money but they are all still north of £20k

all that stuffed leather looks good but that’s about it

I’d expect the ‘tarting up’ to include a bit more sound insulation and damping. Does it not?

I’d expect the ‘tarting up’ to include a bit more sound insulation and damping. Does it not?

Don’t forget the wood.

Not big, but definitely old!

Love my E30 Touring. Has been used for everything from daily driver, to bike trips in Morzine, to track days. Never fails to raise a smile!

I used to have one of those, and almost loved it. I have to say that its dodgy clutch kind of marred the experience, though.

Yep, clutch cylinders can be a weak point but haven’t had any trouble in 5 years and 40,000 miles 🤞

Yep, clutch cylinders can be a weak point but haven’t had any trouble in 5 years and 40,000 miles

Well definitely don’t let me jinx it! Keep enjoying!

I’m very fond of a fast estate. Previous car was a 2007 535i Touring but I got hacked off with all the silly little electrical gremlins that kept appearing.

Current car is a B8 Audi S4 Avant. They’re a little boring in standard guise but the previous owner took it to MRC Tuning and it’s now stage 2+ with over 500bhp. Being supercharged there’s instant power (600+ nm) and it’ll do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. Permanent 4 wheel drive helps to keep that all in check and it’s just a great car, if a bit thirsty/scary when you put your foot down.

Thanks SaxonRider

Some lovely, lovely cars on this thread.

Hope the big, fast(ish) estate continues to be a thing for some time yet as they really can be all things to all men. Practical, usually better looking than the equivalent saloon, and often surprisingly good to drive!

My E46 330i, probably pushing the definition of “Big” and not really my definition of “Old” but definitely the best daily driver I’ve had. 40mpg on a long run, about 1mpg down on the 318i I had previously. Happy to lazily cruise at 1500rpm, but equally happy pressing on.

E30 above makes me miss my E30 touring, my first “grown up” car. Never try and sleep in the back, though. There’s a 1/2″ step in the boot floor with the back seats down, you will wake up with a 1/2″ step in your spine!

This, is an absolute classic:

Was isn das fürn Kombi?

Modified B5 S4 though rather than an RS4 since it does not have the wide RS4 arches. No doubt a genuine modified RS4 would be even faster.

Then there is this, proper old school cool:

RS2 Acceleration

That E46 330i is very nice, definitely a sweet spot between analogue/digital cars. They started gently appreciating a few years ago like lots of other stuff from this era.

The RS2 was famously faster than a McLaren F1 0-30mph.

I still regret not buying a mint S2 Avant for £6k in around 2005. They’re worth over £20k now. My dream garage would contain an RS2, RS4 and RS6.

Had a ride in an S2, in the dark, down b-roads, that was reportedly running around 450bhp. Scary as ****!

I have an ’04 JDM Legacy wagon, twinscroll turbo. Invisible in a car park, but it makes 245bhp at the wheels, it handles, and is usefully big in the back- I can fit my rocketmax in the back with both wheels on, with about 3 metric bawhairs to spare. And a recent import so rust-free. Plus it has LPG so I can drive it without going bankrupt, and is cheap to tax and insure to boot. A set of Tein coilovers, some stiffening and lowering, and some sticky tyres and it’s just a pleasure. Also, it goes PSSSHH.

I’d love a Legnum though. Or a Stagea. Or a Crown Athlete. Or a 5 series with a big engine in. Or some Audis with 6 in the name. Or even a 940 with a bit more engine. Or an Elgrand.

SaxonRider
Full Member

I know it’s a ‘tarted up’ Mondeo; but ‘compromised’?

Other than the 4wd option, yep- the jaguar redesign costs it a lot of the space and usability that made the mk3 so brilliant. And tbh the interior and construction aren’t really any better– nicer looking, but the mondeo was well done, not as pretty but a bit more sensible, and the ford ergonomics are a little better imo. The first impressions are better but the stuff that lasts isn’t.

I really wanted to like it, because I loved the looks, but my testdrive was literally “Mondeo but less good”. I never drove the awd version mind but… Thing about the mk3 mondeo is it’s an incredibly well balanced, competent car that knows exactly what it wants to be and just does it. It’s not fast, it’s not slow, but it covers ground so so well… it handles reasonably but comfortably, it’s massive but it doesn’t feel massive (til you park it anyway), it’s old but it doesn’t look or feel dated, it’s comfy without being excessive, the ergonomics are awesome with everything in the right place, the 6 speed is lovely… everything’s good enough, and the 2.2 diesel is literally just the 2.0 but better, it even gives better economy. It’s just a great piece of work. I’d have another 2.2 like a shot if I had to have a more economic or bigger car than the Leggy, it was fantastic at what it did.

But then you look at the V6, and it’s still not fast or slow, but it’s heavier, it’s far less practical, it basically moves away from the things the mondeo does best in order to do something it doesn’t do so well, a bit better but still not very well. People still like the ST220 but the Ghia/Titx 2.2 are the Ultimate Mondeo imo. And that’s exactly what the Jag felt like too. Instead of being fantastic at what it did, it was less good at what it did, and tried hard to be something it’s not so good at.

Even the later Mondeos do tons of things better but I don’t think they ever got the package as good.

Agreed on the MK3 Mondeo. Had one for a few months between more interesting stuff. Really wanted to hate it, but as you said it just does being a car so well with no fuss!

Holy balls that was a long post. Apparently I like Mondeos.

Loved my 3.0 spec b legacy.

Didn’t love the sub 25mpg economy though at the time when I was starting to do 10k+ miles a year.

I still remember driving in torrential rain along a motorway, wondering why the Merc in front was only going 50mph through the standing water, where the legacy was cruising along at 70 – then we both leave on a slip road and I see it’s an SL55 or some other rwd AMG beastie, and realise his arse is probably clenched tight while I’m cruising along without a care in the world. Also, leaving the lights in the legacy, in the pouring rain, 4 up – floor it and it’s gone, no bother no stress.

I’ve been very close to buying a spec b Legacy a couple of times. It’ll happen eventually. Lovely combination of engine and drivetrain. Basically a Porsche 911 with the body on backwards!

Yeah and they’re not properly ‘fast’ at just under 7 secs 0-60 but they’ll do that in all weathers, wet or dry. Shame the 3.0 isn’t that tunable. The twinscroll turbo is the one for that.

Well I’d rather have a Jag than a Mondeo on looks alone.

And what’s with all this 20mpg stuff? Don’t you know there’s a climate emergency on? Mine’s bad enough with 48mpg.

Mine’s bad enough with 48mpg.

48 mpg? Seriously? Not ever! Rarely anywhere even remotely close.

Aren’t you missing the point here Molls?

In the retro themed spirit of which this thread is intended, can I sing the praises of taking ones dirty big estate car and booting it away from the toll booths on the M6 toll, redlining it in every gear and watching your MPG figure disappear into American pick up truck territory 😃