IanW – Member
So you are making the point made well by Grum, only doing it with a hint of insult and quoting the wrong post?

Point is in the last election Labour was always going to loose power but that was seen as impossible on here.

I quoted the post I meant to quote. It’s pretty simple.

IanW – Member
edit for the above- point is there appears to be so many armchair socialist on this website, knowing what they do from news reports and university discussion and don’t have a clue about the real world.

🙄

Cop-out. Anyone who disagrees ‘doesn’t have a clue about the real world’?

ernie_lynch – Member
So typically a miner would turn up for work and then sleep for most of the shift – that’s what miners did, right ?

😆 😆 😆 – Priceless piece of deliberate misinterpretation. That is not what I said. But hey it’s a thread about politics so let’s not let truth get in the way shall we?

nice post bobgarrod– for me these events strip away the grey areas, people reveal their true colours –but then often slink back to opportunism and the pursuit of selfishness–

Off to do some work now. As above this debate has reminded me of 80’s when similar happened most evenings. It was in pubs then though not online.

The outcome was she got voted back in.

Its obvious what DR Mungus is saying and it is obvious who supported them – it is in his post

Thjatcher supported brutal regimes [ well only the right wing one pinochet, pol pot Apartheid etc]. In this case the training led to people being killed. You ask that we should respect her family when she caused other families to suffer by them loosing family members
Did this really need explaining?

the sanctimonious bleatings of the thatcher apologists are to be expected— if any of you people who say they are ‘shocked’-‘disappointed’ with the reactions of those of us who are celebrating a class enemy– yes read that again– it was class war with her– what you sow , so shall you reap —biblical i know but apt in her case.

Have you labelled everyone who finds celebrating the death of an old lady distasteful a “Thatcher Apologist” then ?

Or is it just easier to dismiss what they have said if you pretend that’s what they are.

point is there appears to be so many armchair socialist on this website, knowing what they do from news reports and university discussion and don’t have a clue about the real world

Its a fair point!

I wonder how many people here remember standing on picket lines with their dads as kids?

I know I do, very well – and I also remember the police coming round to the house because of the death threats too.

there is a strange reverse morality at work with some–they want us to respect people who have organised state killing of many thousands, in order to carry out their ‘conviction’ politics– get a grip !

And closer to home let’s not forget the thousands of people forced into an early death by her policies. There seems to be a lot of societal amnesia at work today. Just remember those thousands of porr pensioners who used to die each winter because of fuel poverty. Yes that is some legacy; but not one to celebrate.

so ratttrap– why were the police coming round to ‘protect’ someone ? Sausage Chips And Beans by any chance ?

rattrap – Member

“point is there appears to be so many armchair socialist on this website, knowing what they do from news reports and university discussion and don’t have a clue about the real world”

Its a fair point!

I wonder how many people here remember standing on picket lines with their parents as kids?

I know I do, very well – and I also remember the police coming round to the house because of the death threats too.

So all historians should STFU unless they were there?

so ratttrap– why were the police coming round to ‘protect’ someone ? Sausage Chips And Beans by any chance ?

Nope – the S word wasn’t involved.

Have you labelled everyone who finds celebrating the death of an old lady distasteful a “Thatcher Apologist” then ?

Or is it just easier to dismiss what they have said if you pretend that’s what they are.

I find celebrating the death of an old lady distasteful. But the numbers of people lauding someone who staunchly supported vile mass-murderers and racist regimes as if she was a saint is quite a lot more distasteful.

yes that is it you cannot be objective unless yu subjectively experienced it apparently.

I know I wont see a doctor who does not have the same illness as me as tbh what would they know eh

your central point is bobbins anyway about folk on here.
Ps What a colourful life you have lead Mr Mitty. racial persecuted for love, experience of the love that dare not speak its name, and now your father the militant socialist striking and being brutalised by the state.

You could not make it up …oh hold on a minute

do enlighten Rattrap– its obviously important or was it undercover stuff ??

The celebration is more reflective of the emotions felt by Iraqis on hearing about the toppling of Saddam Hussien, or the Romanians about Chauczescu. It is an eruption of supressed feeling. A pity those feelings wern’t expressed more widely thirty years ago.

Rudebwoy, nope – but suffice to say that my dad was a shop steward in a certain union on one site, my mum worked in the management offices at another site.

I’ve seen both sides of what unions can do to people and families.

There’s a great photo of me standing next to a brazier as a kid somewhere at my parents house, I should get it framed sometime…

And there is the feeling that at long last she has reached the state that many of her unfortunate victims got to far earlier than they needed to as a result of her institutionalised indifference.

I’ve seen that cartoon

RIP La Dame de Fer.

Bye, Maggie, I’d like to thank you for giving us something interesting to discuss in economics lectures, giving me many good reasons to live in France and providing me with one of my favourite teaching resources, your “Victorian Values” speech (that Junkyard has clearly never heard).

Re the mine closures/whole ‘communities’ being left stranded- The issue alot of commentators/detractors/people on the ground brought up was ‘you left us with no alternative employment in the area’.

The problem was – what COULD you put into the South Wales area to give people work? Adequate work for alot of people?

Geographic location plays a big part but even with massive tax incentives, back then who could you attract manufacturing-wise etc?

(At that time)You could have opened up or relocated car plants but that’d involve losing jobs elsewhere.

You could have given retraining but retraining for what? – goes back to the geographic/area/location.

Sadly without mining such areas were always going to revert back to what they were pre-coal era. Just with a boomed/larger number of people living there now.

rattrap– unions didn’t do ‘anything’ to your family, they were reacting to protect their members from all out attack from a vindictive ruling class-if your mam’s bread was buttered by managment thats her issue– you can be a manager and have principles– often means you will be out of work- but dignity cannot be bought !!

Hora- do you know the ‘economics’ of the nuclear industry and how much we subsidise that ?

rogerthecat – Member

ernie_lynch – Member
So typically a miner would turn up for work and then sleep for most of the shift – that’s what miners did, right ?

– Priceless piece of deliberate misinterpretation. That is not what I said. But hey it’s a thread about politics so let’s not let truth get in the way shall we?

You most definitely said that you knew someone who worked on the coal face but spent most of the shift asleep, why don’t you go back and check, if you can’t remember what you wrote ?

Of course you are now going to say that you never claimed it was typical, which begs the question wtf did you bother mentioning it then ? 🙄

I was not going to post on this as I do not wish to hurt any surviving friends or her family. However I personally believe that her legacy as a politician is one of catastrophic destruction of communities, industries and lives. There may have been a need for industries to change but that could have been done over time with a plan to modernise and if necessary to replace. Her support for Pinochet, apartheid, are just plain wrong. Poll tax, massively extreme union bashing, and belief that everything can be reduced to some sort of market value all were disastrous. I hear now that the tax payers will have to pay 5 million for the funeral. Why?

The unions in Longbridge didn’t do any of that while I was there just before the Winter of Discontent, Rudeboy. You don’t protect your members by sabotaging the factory that pays their wages.

The unions lost their power because once secret-ballot democracy was forced on them they couldn’t influence show-of-hands votes with bullying and intimidation.

Hora- do you know the ‘economics’ of the nuclear industry and how much we subsidise that ?

How does a different politicians failings and weakness relate to her situation though?

Scandalous that wind farms are being knobbled by almost bloody every angle going.

your “Victorian Values” speech (that Junkyard has clearly never heard).

Not sure what your point is here tbh, could you be explicit?

The problem was – what COULD you put into the South Wales area to give people work? Adequate work for alot of people?

Geographic location plays a big part but even with massive tax incentives, back then who could you attract manufacturing-wise etc?
So your point is she knew these areas would be **** for ever and just did not GAS or that they had no plan to deal with it.
Either way not exactly great for a leader

How does a different politicians failings and weakness relate to her situation though?

Scandalous that wind farms are being knobbled by almost bloody every angle going
Chapeau you ask how another politician relates to her then give up another power industry in relation to nukes

I still cannot work out if you are a genius of irony or just a fool.

No I’m confused. She left power two decades ago. Why is our subsidy of the nuclear industry/current policy got to do with her?

The coal industry was in decline for decades before Thatcher.

One situation is a different context to the current.

reckon its not a genius of irony…..

The unions lost their power because once secret-ballot democracy was forced on them they couldn’t influence show-of-hands votes with bullying and intimidation.

You’ve got poor memory. The Trade Union Act was in 1984, by then Sir Michael Edwardes management plan had been in operation, without any strikes, for several years. It was the threat and intimidation of unemployment, as the result of Thatcher doubling unemployment, that forced workers to accept management’s terms. We now know that it did them no good.

@ ernie – ok – here’s what I posted – please feel free to read it again and then point out where I used the word “typically”? Also where I said I knew someone who slept most of the time – I didn’t say this, someone else did. But if it allows you to get a swivel eyed emoticon into the post let’s not let truth interfere shall we?

rogerthecat – Member
It’s easy to do this if there is overmanning – three on, one gets a kip. Not exclusive to mines but a lot of the big industry had similar ‘practices’ back then.

the self styled Edukator -with his reactionary views seeks to embellish them with revisionism– an old tanky trick that the stalinists use to cover their bankrupt ideology

of course we can now argue abotu whether wage demans fuelled or reflected those [1980s inflation] rates

Well, I would hope that an proper Thatcherite would say it was an increase in money supply that caused it, although that might be a bit close to home given the utter failure of monetarist theory in the UK in the 1980s…

The celebration is more reflective of the emotions felt by Iraqis on hearing about the toppling of Saddam Hussien

I hope not – means that you’re about to have ten years of NATO occupation!

Two camps on here. Ironically one camp is consistently full of pent up resentment and snipes towards STW’ers.

Weird that.

konabunny – Member
Well, I would hope that an proper Thatcherite would say it was an increase in money supply that caused it, although that might be a bit close to home given the utter failure of monetarist theory in the UK in the 1980s…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuCt_ZdG18U[/video]

The Lady’s not for turning, until she turns. But she didn’t turn. Even though she did.

Two camps on here.

It’s more complicated than that, Frankie.

ernie – ok – here’s what I posted – please feel free to read it again and then point out where I used the word “typically”?

I used the word “typically”, not you 🙄

If you are now saying that it wasn’t typical for miners to spend most of their shift sleeping, then why did you bother mentioning it then ffs ? It’s clearly completely irrelevant.

I’ve already made that point – read my posts if you want to comment on them 💡

The problem was – what COULD you put into the South Wales area to give people work? Adequate work for alot of people?

There’s work down here now. Not tons, but it’s not as bad as it could be. I don’t know if the investment in the area was part of Maggies plan or not.

If you are now saying that it wasn’t typical for miners to spend most of their shift sleeping, then why did you bother mentioning it then ffs ?

My dad would sleep often down the coal mines. However, he was an electrician, and the nature of the job meant that when everything was fine there wasn’t much to do. You make up for it when it goes wrong though.