That Maxxis "babes calendar" article…

I am not so sure the auto code for related stories has it quite right on STW either.
This is below the Rachel Atherton for SPOTY blog on the front page.
😕

DrJ – she did link the calendar to flashing and groping. So the correct response would have been “yes” as opposed to “have you stopped beating your wife?”

Lets stop sexism so we can all be more civilised and get on together I hear you shout. Oh, but if you don’t like the way I do it you can **** off back to the stone age you ****. Now that is ironic.

“Massive public events”? There wasn’t even a link on their website that I could see.

Your lack of skill in finding the link is really not really a reason to criticise me – try harder [ said with tongue in cheek reads much harsher than intended]
http://www.maxxis.co.uk/news/corporate/maxxis-supports-macmillan-and-its-fight-against-cancer

It was a mailshot to their existing customers. One of which took the hump and posted a massive public overreaction to the internets.

Oh given the even handed way you described that I am glad you have not massively overreacted and taken the hump. What is it with this story that folk have to do the thing they are moaning about ?

It kind of has to be public to raise any money.

Maxxis could just give money, without the publicity, to the charity.

I’m not interested in arguing with anyone who is wilfully misinterpreting my comments but I stand by them. As I said, I’m not claiming to somehow speak for all women, just as I wouldn’t expect any of the male posters’ comments to represent all men.
The most offence seems to have been taken by those who think I’m suggesting that all men, without exception, will be influenced by the calender to go out and abuse women – clearly that’s not the case. It’s a wider issue.

Interesting point by DrJ about the Scandinavian countries. Perhaps it shows that as equality increases here, we’ll be able to grow up a bit about sexuality and nudity (e.g. our prudery over nudity compared to violence in films). I suspect the two things (equality and tolerance) need to develop in tandem, and my view is that things like this calender set that back a few decades.

Now that is ironic.

Nope it is still a straw man ….jesus how many pages for you to stop making them?

y DrJ about the Scandinavian countries. Perhaps it shows that as equality increases here, we’ll be able to grow up a bit about sexuality and nudity

Is that when he said the men liked looking at naked ladies and the women thought they were just being silly boys.

But that is what I think about it,

It’s you who says looking at women is demeaning and supports sexism.

DrJ – she did link the calendar to flashing and groping. So the correct response would have been “yes” as opposed to “have you stopped beating your wife?”

Thanks for the help! And the bonus dose of condescension!!

Is that when he said the men liked looking at naked ladies and the women thought they were just being silly boys.

But that is what I think about it,

It’s you who says looking at women is demeaning and supports sexism
No, it’s where he mentioned Sweden and Denmark. No idea what you’re talking about.

I have never said that – you seem determined to reduce the argument to absurd levels and strip it of any nuance [how ironic].

Looking at women isn’t sexist. Looking at men isn’t sexist. Using either gender to promote a product or brand simply through the use of a person as an object is sexism.

Treating people like objects = bad. Is that simple enough yet?

No. Its objectification. Which is different, but that’s been done already.

everything has been done over and over again because the really hard of thinking cannot comprehend even the simplest of things.

Oh, but if you don’t like the way I do it you can **** off back to the stone age you ****

So you’re upset about having been insulted unfairly?

I would be too – I agree that some posters have unfairly maligned you. Calendar is still sexist though 🙂

Treating people like objects = bad. Is that simple enough yet?

We’ve hit new levels of simple(ton) on this thread Fiona.

I’d cut your losses, and leave it at that. The ones who understand what you’re saying, understood well over 1000 posts ago

Those that don’t? And are being wilfully obtuse in repeatedly stating it, ad naeseum? Well…. think what you will of them. I’m sure you’ve already drawn your own conclusions

I agree that some posters have unfairly maligned you

To be fair – did you read what he said about Binners?- he has given at least as good as he got though he has decided it was bullying when folk did it to him.

We did speculate that your posts were symptomatic of trolling rather than incompetence though

Let’s try a couple of questions again:

Why no Maxxis hunks calendar?
Why no grid boys and pit blokes?

WHAT – are you gay ?

Treating people like objects = bad. Is that simple enough yet?

I think everyone agrees with that. What about “treating fictional characters like objects = bad” ?

Can I put in a bid of 1,253? (pages, not posts)

Why no Maxxis hunks calendar?

unlikely to sell

Why no grid boys and pit blokes?

I still have no understanding of (or much desire to either) this “straw man” thing.

What I do know is that I just popped out at lunch, and there was one of those calendar stalls. It had nearly all one side “hunks” calendars with various men on it in varying states of undress. If I was playing victim I could say I felt oppressed/threatened/part of some objectification/sexism or whatever. I didn’t. I have more important stuff to be thinking about. I equally showed my mrs this thread the other night and asked if she felt oppressed/offended etc by it. She said no and she couldn’t see why she would need to be. In fact, her words were “why do these kind of people need to keep looking for something to be offended by?”.

Life is hard, and it’s not fair – and there’s nothing wrong with that. Change the things you can by positive action, and quit complaining about the things you can’t. This open letter was not positive action. At best it was venting (which is a wholly worthless emotional outpouring), at worst, a cynical plea for self publicity.

We’ve hit new levels of simple(ton) on this thread Fiona.

Again more insults.

I try not to resort to name calling. And it really bothers me not when people call me names. after all it’s just the Internet, I can’t help it if people find my views offensive, but I never deliberately try to cause offence for causing offenses sake.
I couple of times I thought I may have been short with mole grips but is unintentional as I do tend to be a bit of a blunt instrument.

But the fact the name calling seems to be coming from the very people who claimed to have evolved and to occupy a higher moral ground I find very amusing.

Why’s that?

Glad you did not vent your feelings on the issue and i am stunned to discover you and your wife share a similar outlook on life

why do these kind of people need to keep looking for something to be offended by?

I know you dont care about a straw man do you have any interest in ad homs? ON balance that “claim” is just BS

Life is hard, and it’s not fair – and there’s nothing wrong with that

I know only one of my kids gets Xmas presents this year as there is nothing wrong with life being unfair. I have a feeling they might try really hard to be offended about this….pffft what can you do eh ?

I think it would sell.

BAN THIS SICK FILTH

Interesting – not something their marketing department seems to agree with, and not likely to the motorsport fanbase which is apparently the target market for this calendar.

Strawman 😆

I know you dont care about a straw man do you have any interest in ad homs?

No idea what one of those is either I’m afraid.

What I do know is that as Chip has alluded to, and just as in real life in fact, the “social justice” types seem very angry and extremely intolerant of opposing views, which is pretty ironic. “I will fight for the right of free speech provided it isn’t saying something I don’t like”.

We should be able to discuss dispassionately and on the basis of logic and mutual respect, and take the time to listen to other viewpoints without resorting to name calling. Sadly, it’s the “anti” crowd who seem compelled to use derogatory remarks like “knuckledragger” and emotional language toward anyone who doesn’t share their view. That is quite a sad reflection on those who claim to be more enlightened and tolerant.

the “social justice” types seem very angry and extremely intolerant of opposing views

I think you’re rolling up a lot of stereotypes there to give you something to dislike!

I’m all for free speech. I’m trying to explain the negative impact of some things that you might not be aware of. What you choose to do with that knowledge is up to you.

We should be able to discuss dispassionately and on the basis of logic and mutual respect, and take the time to listen to other viewpoints without resorting to name calling

That’s what I’ve been trying to do the whole thread. You’re stereotyping me with that whole post, I don’t like it any more than you do.

No idea what one of those is either I’m afraid.

Simply put,

Straw man = misrepresenting an opposing point of view in order to attack it (ie, you’re trying to win an argument by arguing against something else entirely, such as several pages of anti-banning diatribe when no-one’s suggested banning anything).

Ad Hom(inem) = attacking the person rather than the argument (ie, name calling etc).

Why’s that?

the “social justice” types seem very angry and extremely intolerant of opposing views, which is pretty ironic. “I will fight for the right of free speech provided it isn’t saying something I don’t like”.

We should be able to discuss dispassionately and on the basis of logic and mutual respect, and take the time to listen to other viewpoints without resorting to name calling.
right so you dont know simply logical terms and you want to call do gooders name then implore us to be logical and not call each other names

Again what is it about this issue that makes folk do the exact thing they just asked us not to. In your case though well done as you did two in one go

Both sides are being rude only one side is getting upset about [ whilst claiming the other side cannot be rational] and denying they are doing it whilst actually doing it

You are right that liberals hate sexists racists and homophobes and challenge them when they speak out. Am i meant to apologise for exercising my free speech to argue with and disagree with a bigot

I on the other hand don’t hate racists and sexists, I hate racism and sexism.

Peace out.

Good work, Cougar.

A racist and a sexist is a person who displays sexism and racism

Straw man = misrepresenting an opposing point of view in order to attack it (ie, you’re trying to win an argument by arguing against something else entirely, such as several pages of anti-banning diatribe when no-one’s suggested banning anything).

Ad Hom(inem) = attacking the person rather than the argument (ie, name calling etc).

Cool, cheers Cougar – mean that seriously as it’s something I have never understood properly.

I’m definitely not on the anti-ban thing because as someone else said, it’s not been suggested to ban it (I don’t think). That said, I do believe that there’s a bit too much sensitivity towards this calendar, and Adele has leveraged it to her own advantage to try and raise her profile, rather than directly trying to influence Maxxis if she feels that is the right course of action.

So when drj had no relevant response to my arguement so then chose as a response to infer I was a wife beater.

Was that a strawman, an ad hom or neither.

Adele has leveraged it to her own advantage to try and raise her profile, rather than directly trying to influence Maxxis

BS she wanted them to stop it and she has

You are making stuff and playing the person still.

BS she wanted them to stop it and she has

You are making stuff and playing the person still.

You’re doing it again Junkyard. Use of angry language, this is not the way to engage in reasoned and logical debate. Did you need to open a sentence with “BS”? Could you not say “I disagree”?.

I put forward a suggested way that Adele could have influenced in a far more positive way and not only driven Maxxis’ marketing department into a direction she was happier with, but also potentially generated goodwill and resultant ad revenue for her bosses at TWC (so making her look good and helping secure her position). Additionally, it would potentially not have killed this calendar at source and cut off the revenue stream to the charity.

Or, she could do a big old “open letter” and over emotionalise the whole thing.

Was that a strawman, an ad hom or neither

it was a loaded question