Tax returns – should they all be public?

Which bit of the maths is “bad” Junkyard?

Well done Dennis. I will make a honourary ride through Bolsover on Sunday.

Gave me the best laugh in ages.

Having said that, Labour’s current definition of the “rich” based on their budget commentary and the associated increase in allowance for the 40% tax band (“taking from the poor to give to the rich”) includes nurses, policemen/women and a good number of lorry drivers as well. All of these groups would probably be quite surprised to learn they are part of the problem of the “rich” in the UK.

Only a small % of each of those groups. You need to be on over £54k to get taxed at 40%, which is roughly twice the mean full time wage for the UK.

Only a small % of each of those groups. You need to be on over £54k to get taxed at 40%, which is roughly twice the mean full time wage for the UK.

?? 40% tax is paid on earnings over £43k.

Yup, assuming a personal allowance of 11K.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates/current-rates-and-allowances

Not sure which “scheme” FF is on 😉

And to those that think tax avoidance is the epitome of evil itself how many of you have paid cash to get a discount of somewhere between 15 & 20% depending on exactly when the transaction took place.

FFS just because you paid cash to the plumber doesn’t automatically mean that it’s not going thru their books! Do you imagine Tesco also put cash to one side and don’t declare it?

@br I think in general thats exactly what it means – no tax or VAT. If we assume tax/ni of 35% then a tradesman sees 52p of every pound he charges the customer. Cash in hand means no vat receipt to a tradesman not the same at Sainsburys

Pretty sure their labour is what allows the rich to get rich

JY classic Marxist tripe. The “rich” could get even “richer” presumably by offshoring prodiction and putting the workers on the dole. In todays world everyone is competing globally for a piece of the pie

Skinner makes good theatre for the news and fhey compIain pmq’s gives Parliament a bad name. Personally I find him pretty dull, its fhe same stuff week in week out and a waste of taxpayers money. He actually had a moderately good point to make about expenses and mortgage for Cameron. All he did was get kicked out. Whilst being cheered here posters should remember fhe snp tried to steal his spot on the benches. Very mature

?? 40% tax is paid on earnings over £43k.

Oops my bad, added the tax free allowance twice.

No personal allowance after earnings reach £125k as the rich pay proportionally more tax and on a larger amount

Cash in hand means no vat receipt to a tradesman

Lots of tradespeople aren’t even VAT registered in the first place.

Lots of tradespeople aren’t even VAT registered in the first place

Lots don’t need to be VAT registered.

It’s not compulsory.

Yes neal. Being one of those myself, I’m well aware of that.

Interesting Boris puts so little into his pension, what does he know that we don’t

I’m guessing it’s “his financial affairs in their entirety” 😀

🙂 excellent

Yes neal. Being one of those myself, I’m well aware of that.

Fair enough, me too.

got sick of people presuming it was some kind of dodgy tax scam when I told them I wasn’t VAT registered.

Lots of people don’t realise you don’t have to be.

What’s also interesting in all these revelatory tax returns being published is that if any tax inspector so much as whispered about their truthfulness, he or she would be breaking the law.

Never fully got to the bottom of why that is, guy who did my decorating (£700 inc Farrow and Ball materials) was an he was a sole trader. Non vat registered allows you to undercut those who are registered. All quotes to decorate exterior of apartment building are registered as I imagine over threshold turnover

@dd tax inspector could report to hmrc just not speak to the press

Fair enough, me too.
got sick of people presuming it was some kind of dodgy tax scam when I told them I wasn’t VAT registered.
Lots of people don’t realise you don’t have to be.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I’ve had the suspicious looks too. It’s the kind of ignorance displayed by jamba, who obviously doesn’t realise either.

@dd tax inspector could report to hmrc just not speak to the press

And what are the HMRC going to do if Boris lied to the press about how much he earns or how much he paid into his pension fund ?

Non vat registered allows you to undercut those who are registered.

Rubbish.

And what are the HMRC going to do

**** all.

I’ve had the suspicious looks too. It’s the kind of

I remember going to plenty of small town restaurants who were not vat registered as they had only just taken over… Would have never clocked it if we hadn’t been going back each year for work. Again publishing tax returns won’t tell you much more just have a bunch of unqualified people going through them to get people investigated.

@dd really massive yawn, really big one. I am well aware you don’t have to be, well aware you can be a sole trader without a ltd co. What I don’t fully understand is why some traders below the turnover requirement threshold chose to register. I imagine it could be to do with offsetting vat expenses – was just wondering out of curiosity

Rubbish

20% lower price to customer – no ?

Just in case you misread the guy who did my decorating was vat registered

Obviously, above a certain threshold (can’t remember exactly what…£70k-ish?), you have to be VAT registered, no choice and this can be on a rolling twelve month period.

If you’re selling mainly labour, and are underneath the threshold, then you can choose whether to be VAT registered or not. Most choose not to be for simplicity.

If you’re under the threshold but are making a lot of your money from supplying materials, eg carpet fitter, then it can make sense to be registered.

As neal says, a lot of people don’t understand this and think you’ve said “No, I’m not registered to pay tax.” when they ask how much VAT is going on the bill. 🙂

Just on the labour element as you wouldn’t be able to claim VAT back on the materials, which would just flow though for a registered trader.

The policy changes to VAT over the last 25 year have been very good, encouraging startups, self employment and reducing costs for everyone.

EDIT: Threashhold is now £81,000.

20% lower price to customer – no ?

No.

How about all the other stuff, like tools, materials, vehicles, fuel etc etc etc etc.

The VAT registered person gets those 20% cheaper than the non VAT registered one.

Makes the gap very small in reality.

Depends on the trade, and the overheads etc obviously.

But it’s WAY more complicated and involved than …”undercut by 20%”

massive yawn

We’ll go to sleep then. Haven’t you talked a bough shite for one day? Or quote some figures and sources so your claims won’t sound so outlandish.

20% lower price to customer – no ?

Some fag packet maths for you…

I quote you £120 to do a job. But ask you to order and pay for the paint. You pay for the paint and I charge you £120.

The VAT registered painter quotes you £100 + VAT, charges you £100 + VAT for your Barrow and Fall (retail) but maybe gets it at £75 + VAT from the decorators merchant. So, your bill is £240, £25 of which goes to HMRC (minus the £15 VAT that he paid for the paint). So he makes £100 labour + the profit on the paint. Hence why it’s advantageous for some traders to register, even if they’re below the threshold.

The policy changes to VAT over the last 25 year have been very good, encouraging startups, self employment and reducing costs for everyone.

+1

It’s made a massive difference to a lot of people who might struggle with the concept of quarterly VAT returns. And if those I know are to believed, you do not want to be late with your VAT returns. Income tax is one thing, but they’ll really crucify you if you muck up your VAT. It’s also simplified things for low earning tradespeople who can do small jobs for people and not have to hit their customers with a 20% surprise.

£81k now? Phew, I’ll be alright this year then. 😆

Could you not just strive a bit harder and have some more aspirations

Its people like you who are keeping this country on its knees…no ambition, happy with their lot, not motivated by greed….I despise you…obscure and pointless subtle abstract hint at him being Irish without being explicit about it.

Hardly been on here today so the yawn is very much specific for you and your post just trying to invent a controversy where there was none. Thanks for the example. As I said don’t know why painter and decorator was registered.

JY no doubt in my mind an entrepneurial skilled tradesman will get a visa in a post Brexit world, whether they come from Ireland or the Ivory Coast

£81k now?

£83 actually for 2016/17, I was wrong, I relied on first result google threw up.

If your customers are mainly folk paying with their own money and your charges are mainly just labour, then you CAN be cheaper if you are non-VAT.

The Plumber, Electrician, Slater and Decorator we use are all non-VAT – and all paid straight into their TA bank accounts. Our Joiner isn’t, but bloody good so we just have to accept he’s dearer.

Income tax is one thing, but they’ll really crucify you if you muck up your VAT

For ourselves we use FRS VAT, which means not really having to account for it as we pay it based on turnover – means less hassle and no surprises.

🙂

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/special-reports/i-own-a-2m-buy-to-let-and-earn-143462-our-money-makeover-for-the/