Talk to me about Santa Cruz Chameleon?

weeksy
If it had a set of 36s it’d be even better.. but we can’t have everything.

Factory Grip2 36s in 140mm guise are half price on Wiggle, and EXTRA15 gets more off. I have a set, and delighted with them

They’d be ideal on your light HT…. or your Specialized 160mm Park Bike or whatever you settle on in between 🙂

I wouldn’t worry too much about really light weight – my hardtail for playing on when I don’t want the full suss experience is about it 30lb give or take.

Heavy steel frame (3.1kg with axle and seat lamp), Pike Ultimates, GX Eagle, Xm421’s on Erase components hubs (or I have a set of winter wheels that actually have hub seals that are a little heavier – Hope pro4 front and Superstar V6 rear hubs with xm481), codes, 2.6” tyres – albeit it has carbon cranks and bars to try and nip a bit of weight off.

It feels waaaay quicker than a coil spring enduro bike – just feel like sprinting everywhere on it.

In predictable STW-style, I’ll throw the Bird Forge into the mix.  I’ve ridden/owned loads HT-wise from On One, Cotic, Whyte, Trek, Kinesis and was looking for something pretty versatile that could do longer XC rides, but also not get out of its depth too quickly on techy trails (ubiquitous up here in Aberdeenshire).  Bike Bothy did a cracking job, and were super-flexible on components, including allowing me to use wheels and a few other bits that I had lying spare.  So far used it for ski touring access use into the Cairngorms and local loops incl the new local trail centre, Tarland.  (it’ll be at Nevis Range this weekend, if you want a closer look)

There are a load of very different riding hardtails out there.

Your size and weight are significant factors in how a HT frame will ride. For example, if you are over 6 foot and +200lbs, your frame will flex a lot more than if you were a little chap.

Also, chainstay length makes a big difference in how a bike rides. The SC Chameleon is 425mm at its shortest, which is very playful. Not as playful as an RSD Middlechild at 415mm but still in the short range. The Cotics are at the other end of the scale and come in at 444mm, which is much more stable for high-speed ploughing.

I have one of the new SC Chameleons in XL, which is fantastic. If you choose the 29er dropouts, you can drop the BB even lower with a mullet wheel. This will also slacken the head angle a little, which is cool.

I bought a frame and built it up to my spec – XT, 140mm Lyrics, Ibis wheels with Onyx Vesper rear hub, and Surly Sunrise Bars.

I had A chameleon 29er when they first came out in the really nice olive green / purple combo.

Notes on that bike. the basic bike is well quite basic. The 34 fox grip forks were ok but nothig better than ok the sram level brake looked cheap performed ok but felt a bit on or off.
Forks got upgraded to some reduced height Pikes and the brakes to some Hopes.
I had also bought both sets of rear drop outs and 2 sets of wheels so could run it as 29er or 27.5+ this was part of the appeal of the bike.
I ran it 29 first then 27.5+ with some 2.8 maxxxis tyres. I persevered for a long time with 27.5+ before admitting it really wasnt for me and took the fast rolling pace and some of the fun out of the bike.
Then…. i realised I had almost enough parts to build another bike, minus a frame. The new One-On Scandal came out with the usual on-one price cuts to get some chatter going about the new bikes, so i picked up a cheap Scandal frame.

Now the Scandal is a bit slacker than the Chameleon, not loads, but a bit. It isnt as well finished but its very similar.
So I put the scandal together with all the left over bits, and… well for me it was better.
Maybe not for everyone, but for what I was riding which is a bit of everything from biggish days in the Lakes to some bike packing it just rode a bit better. I think most of it was the slacker head angle as most of the geometry is similar.

Im no brand snob, so I kept the pikes and the hope brakes, put the original parts on the Chameleon and sold it on. Built the Scandal up with the Pikes and a second hand reverb dropper and as a 29er it was a hoot.

Then….. as i was on the On-One mailing list the new Vandal titanium version of the Scandal came out, same geo, funky ti frame, i had to try it….. so far so good. never really missed the Chameleon, was a nice colour tho!

Thanks for all the info/updates… Hopefully it’ll remain a good source of info for anyone searching for similar in the future. FWIW i’m currently not jumping in and buying anything, with the amount we’re using all the bikes currently and the upkeep needed from running the big DH races, i just don’t really have the time and space for another bike.. As much as i want one and was considering a Ragley Blue Pig as the choice, i’ve got so many things to do on a weekly basis at the moment it’s ridiculous.

I’ve still not pushed the button on a HT…

Although the Ribble HTs are pretty awesome looking, but i do wonder if there’s actually a space in my life for a HT and if there is, doesn’t it really need to be lighter/faster than a burly HT.

My riding mate has just jumping in on a Trek Rail…. so basically i’m slightly stuffed now for the forseeable future lol. So maybe a lighter, faster HT needs to come in to compensate a bit.

My current shirt list is
Ribble HT275
Trek Roscoe9
Orange Crush MX

That’s about it at the moment… but i think the Trek actually ticks more boxes than the others in some ways.. I don’t want to go daft light and 100mm HT as i’m so far from an XC whippet type… but i think the Roscoe 9 is a decent compromise all round maybe.

The spec in the roscoe looks alright, but if the geometry charts I found are right the reach figures are astonishingly short and the head angle is a bit xc leaning for a trail hardtail with a Fox 36 on it. Also is it 27.5+ or 29er. All the pages I find say both sizes on it and are conflicting.

I don’t think I’d buy one of those despite the good spec.

Ribble ht725 always looks good but I bet they’re a chunk heavier than the Trek – but their geometry is much better when I looked at it. Heard lots of bad stuff about Ribble customer service.

Have you looked at the Bird Zero 29? Think that runs a 130mm fork / decent light alloy frame, nice geometry and customer service. The Forge is even nicer but I think it’s more of a hooligan hardcore hardtail then the zero 29 which feels more ‘trail’.

I’m going to mention it again but the Nukeproof Scout is also right in the area I think would suit your needs.

The Ribble looks ok, decent geometry but I suspect you’d want or need a fork upgrade before long.

Trek appear to have confused the Roscoe geometry charts on the page with a hardtail from 10 years ago.

As said above. Nukeproof Scout, Bird Zero 29 for a great all round hardtail. I’d throw a few of the Ragley models into the mix too.

On the more hardcore end, again some of the Ragleys, Marin El Roy (2022 models seem cheap) or the Hello Dave. All come with the sort of spec where the only reason you’ll have to change anything is because you want to.

The BLue PIg is my favourite of the Ragleys, but i worry it’s a bit hefty and not really giving a lot back for being a HT as it’s a bit restricted by it’s weight ?

I’ve had loads of hardtails over the years at all different price points and the current On-one Scandal is the best I’ve owned. Light enough for XC, slack enough for when it gets rowdy.

For an aluminium frame, it soaks up bumps way better than the 853 Solaris frame I had previously

No Scandals at a sensible size available (new)

If you’re open to used ones, I’ve seen them go for peanuts. My Dad and I both picked up GX specced ones for £500-600 used.

Chucked a light wheelset on, and good to go.

Hard to beat the Blue Pig for components at that price point. A Lyrik on a £1500 bike is very compelling. Makes the spec on your other options seem very stingy.

For what it’s worth my brother has an older Ragley Marley, albeit heavily upgraded with Saints/ Pikes/ DH tires and wheels. It’s very hefty but he had no issues riding it at Dyfi. The modern burlier hardtails like the Blue Pig might not have the same ‘spring’ as a super light 100mm XC machine but they make up for it in how they ride and complete versatility. Provided your ankles and shoulders can take it, they’ll do anything from bridleway jaunts to full on bike park uplift.

If you like the Blue Pig but worry on the weight just get the Mmmbop? Same geo isnt it (like the Big Al and Bigwig). The alu frame ragley bikes are very good and CRC still has some brilliant deals on them.

As above, so many Scandals sold they pop up for peanuts second hand all the time

Definitely suggest the mmmmbop over the blue pig. You’ll save a chunk of weight. I wouldn’t consider either particularly light.

Personally I think the whyte 905/909 hardtails are amazing trail hardtails that can do most things well, especially if you put faster rubber on them than the stock 2.8’s.

I’m not a fan of the roscoe.
The crush mx doesn’t really fit your light/trail remit in my eyes.

What about a Sonder transmitter?

What about a Sonder transmitter?

Don’t know a lot about them in truth.

really fit your light/trail remit in my eyes

I’m not sure what does in reality, which is why i’ve not actually pressed the button on anything at the moment. I think “yeah that’s the jobbie…” and then a No pops in with a bit of a reason.. I was out on the Slayer again yesterday (and Monday) and i’m properly enjoying it… but a lighter faster bike still appeals for some of the XC stuff.

The Sonder Transmitter is ok – but I don’t think the specs / prices are brilliant like they used to be. A mate bought one frame only to move across stuff from an old full suss Kona and broadly he likes it.

Compared to my Marino the geometry is actually very similar but it’s a bit lighter even with lower spec build kit. So the frame must be fairly light (or mine is biblically heavy).

If you want to go cross country fairly swiftly on it I’d aim for a 29er instead of 27.5” personally. They do drop into bumps less / keep momentum up better and modern 29er geometry still keeps them fun to ride. Maybe ditch the Ribble HT725 on that basis.

Is seriously give the Bird Zero 29 a look as well as the Scout and maybe an alloy Ragley 29er. A mate just ordered one of the ragleys – the he one with a Lyrik for about £1500. Spec can’t be beaten for that price.

Birds don’t do a lot for me.
Scouts are a bit Marmite… i’d have a yellow one but not the other colours
Ragleys i do like though and they are specc’d well i agree..

I’m not convinced any will give me the ability to stay with my mate though lol.. But we can’t have everything in the world now can we.

I mean a hardtail is probably going to give you a bit more acceleration and climbing speed on non-technical stuff / fireroad a bit it’s not magically going to help you vs a motor sadly.

The zero 29 is quite different to the Aether you had – which I still say was too big / long for you.

give you a bit more acceleration and climbing speed on non-technical stuff / fireroad a bit it’s not magically going to help you vs a motor sadly.

Oh i hear you. The only answer to playing against a motor is of course a motor. Or patience from the other rider. If i’m desparate i’ve got the wifes Eeb for that, although it has had a few hissy fits when out recently. But i am trying to resist the Eeb even for this stuff as i don’t want to be ‘one of them’ … silly as that sounds, i’m not ready for my own Eeb yet.

But the Slayer is overkill for plenty of my riding, although that’s not actually an issue as none of my riding is timed in any way, so if i take 60 mins or 65 mins, it makes very little difference.

It’s more the feel you’ll get from a hardtail – mine makes me want to stand up everywhere and sprint around like a loon.

I try not to stand up pedal on the sentinel / any full suss I’ve had as it’s not very efficient

In the time honoured recommend what you own… Stanton Switch9er. I have the Ti flavour but only because one came up for steel price second hand when I was in the market for one.
I use mine as my XC/light trail option when I don’t want to pedal the 170mm bouncer about.

Think you need a Chameleon @weeksy 😆😆

Will give you a slightly different feel when playing with the dropout options, both for a mullet setup and regular.

And don’t discount eebs if the chance is there. They are amazing bits of kit by and large and open the door to a different riding experience.

Think you need a Chameleon

Even if I do, I can’t find yellow ones.

If I want a posh HT, it has to be noticed.

No yellow Scouts or Birds around?

As much as I really like the Chameleon frame I can’t get over how staggeringly poor value for money the build kit on them is. You’d end up replacing the drivetrain, fork and brakes within a year!

Have just built up a Honzo DL (similar geo to chameleon) from spares & s/h bits, frame was £250 and Marzocchi 140mm Z2s were £200 both mint (Z2s are great fork)
2.6 (well spesh 2.6 is more like 2.4 & a bit) tyres and it absolutely rips, I’ve barely touched my full suss since I got it
Yeah it’s a bit more punishing but it certainly makes the ride entertaining!

Full builds of a lot of bikes seem to be poor vfm and your always comprising on some bits

I’ve had a Roscoe and currently have an Orange Crush.
The Roscoe was from 2019 so not sure if the geometry has changed. I didn’t like it, I’m only 5 foot 8 but felt cramped on a medium. Large felt to sit up and beg.
My Orange Crush is a 27.5, nicer to ride than the Roscoe. It’s hefty though, mine is the Comp spec with SX and a Rockshox 35 Silver.

It’s disappointing that the Orange Crush Pro is also SX for £2600, or £1700 for last years model. Does come with a Lyric Select.

I’ve also had the Fuel Ex and have a Remedy. The Orange is used a lot, it’s not what I consider a fast bike, even on climbs, maybe with lighter XC tyres it may help a bit, but not too much. I don’t think it climbs much better than my Remedy tbh.

Absolutely unscientific, but my times at Llandegla are pretty much identical between the Orange and the Remedy. The Fuel Ex being the quickest….I mention Llandegla as it’s got a fair bit of climbing with a good mix of different types of trail.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134628763212?hash=item1f587fe64c:g:Q3sAAOSw5P9kmFiZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4GBYZZ7H2AgOvPPRnkUoJ%2F2IIwvWJ14%2Fy%2BLWzY5q8g96moeTQzh1XKnyl7CEQn6hMFJXWe6njWjkgR2FEkgGBwGOE5U0MoKeYzsF1UboK%2FbqEPvIguG1Rm9TKWWqnHOtJiLIvHHV43aAqQBl3x4Mc9P9BnZIlqUJx%2Fo%2FwBlHA%2FjzqyF5fc0vSzND6y0ok%2BIxEEsV8KtfNlArGdESj3uNXtp0ojEokiGqY3u8ncN98EDnEt7kRx7TLH3%2Bj5j2cwaJ6CEaHdO7LxiyrKInZzPNyZSHF9WC3iZKnI5ts1U2yTJ2%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8S8qreqYg

That’s a nice thing for not a lot of money… I’m half tempted.

You’re way too keen on shopping but I can’t fault your enthusiasm 🙂

Yes that is nice

Yes, that’s a very good looking bike/spec for the money! I still keep an eye out for that frame colour in a Medium to come up, but they never seem to (or are £2k+ for a full bike!).

one of the new Saracen mullet hardtails?

https://www.saracen.co.uk/collections/hardtail-lsl

Buy the bike.
Buy the bike.
Life’s too short, but the bike.

I’ve been too busy in truth. I looked at the Ragleys on CRC as well, but in simple terms, I’ve just not really got around to anything at the moment.
I need to borrow a HT really for a ride to see