Taking the kids out of school to going skiing. Opinions?

No one has said that family ski holidays aren’t a good thing, but it’s hardly a requirement for bringing up well rounded children is it.

No one said it was a requirement, but if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family, then it’s consistent with that objective…

and there are designated times when schools are closed that it is possible to do just that.

and there are designated times when schools are closed that it is possible to do just that.

erm… very limited times, at high cost and very crowded… (I think this may have been covered at some point during this thread 😉

erm… very limited times, at high cost and very crowded… (I think this may have been covered at some point during this thread

And? You choose to have kids, there are consequences and restrictions that go with that choice. It’s really not difficult. The time I’ll be a bit more sympathetic is when teachers are allowed to act like this.

i get this, but i already stated that catchup can be done quite quickly by parents simply by understanding what the weeks topics were which should be readily available. Therefore, there should never be a requirement for a topic to be taught twice in a class.

Ah, ok – so how much extra time should teachers spend producing extra resource for the various parents who want to take their kids out of school to go on cheap holidays (which they’d have to do voluntarily on top of their current workload)? And, of course, you as a parent are 100% fully up to speed with all the many and various topics your child is studying, and well able to jump in at the drop of a hat and bring them up to speed (and you’ll love doing that apres ski, no?).

No one said it was a requirement, but if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family, then it’s consistent with that objective…

At the same time, bringing up well-rounded children is in no way dependant on taking them on holidays their parents enjoy.

And? You choose to have kids, there are consequences and restrictions that go with that choice. It’s really not difficult. The time I’ll be a bit more sympathetic is when teachers are allowed to act like this.

I can see I’m wasting my time here, so no point debating!

Don’t forget the OP is so keen on a family experience that he brings his old Mum along as well. How lovely! (& of course she can look after the kids while he & his wife go skiing 😉 )

At the same time, bringing up well-rounded children is in no way dependant on taking them on holidays their parents enjoy.

Still not sure where I said it was dependent (or a requirement)? The only point I was making is that it is consistent with the objective…

That also sounded very judgemental where you say “taking them on holidays their parents enjoy”. Clearly we do enjoy skiing/boarding or we wouldn’t even be thinking about it – but a holiday that the kids didn’t enjoy wouldn’t be enjoyable for any of us! We hope that they do enjoy ski holidays in the future (I would have loved to have gone skiing when I was a kid) – and we’ll invest plenty of time in the early years to try and make that the case – but if they don’t like then we won’t do it.

Unfortunately your decision and a similar decisions by lots of other parents harms the education of most kids in that class.

I just don’t accept that. We are talking about primary school kids here, not GCSE or A-level students. I’ve said earlier I recognise the hassle it causes for teachers. But I think the real driver for this is the target driven culture of the education system, and I don’t see why parents should have to suffer the inconvenience and expense of regimented holiday periods in order to maintain a school’s league position in the attendance charts.

Still not sure where I said it was dependent (or a requirement)? The only point I was making is that it is consistent with the objective…

You didn’t say it was dependant, but your post I quoted was from…

No one has said that family ski holidays aren’t a good thing, but it’s hardly a requirement for bringing up well rounded children is it.

No one said it was a requirement, but if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family, then it’s consistent with that objective…[/quote][/quote]
So yeah, it might be consistent with that objective, but it’s not dependant on it. So if you can’t afford a skiing holiday during school holidays, it’s not going to affect your ability to bring up well-rounded children.

The “taking them on holidays their parents enjoy” bit was a reference to “if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family…”, it’s not particularly meant to be judgemental – you’d be a crazy fool to go on holiday or take anyone with you if it’s not at least partly underscored by an element of enjoyment for all participants. 🙂

So yeah, it might be consistent with that objective, but it’s not dependant on it. So if you can’t afford a skiing holiday during school holidays, it’s not going to affect your ability to bring up well-rounded children.

Well, quite. All this is about Mummy and Daddy want to go skiing. One gets the distinct impression that the needs or wants of the kids aren’t figuring too highly.

so how much extra time should teachers spend producing extra resource for the various parents who want to take their kids out of school to go on cheap holidays

Absolutely none, obviously.

To my (non-teacher) mind it should work something like this: parent speaks to the school (particularly the child’s teacher) indicating what they want to do and how they will ensure the child does not fall behind. The school offer guidance on whether they feel it is hugely detrimental or not and can grant or deny the leave on that basis. If the school approve it then the teacher can indicate the work and homework that the child will need to complete (from their existing lesson plans).

If the school don’t approve it and the parents do it anyway THEN we are into fines, reporting and parental orders.

Maybe that needs tweaked but, as stated earlier, the working assumption should be that the parent is not feckless and also wants what is best for their kids (unless proven otherwise).

as a parent are 100% fully up to speed with all the many and various topics your child is studying

I hardly ever go over the lines and I know the proper names for all the felt tips. And I only ate the paint that one time.

you’ll love doing that apres ski, no?

Plenty of time sitting about airports and in the evenings. Plus if you take the week before the half term week then you also have the whole of the half term week to catch up.

We used to go every year with a mate and his daughter (actually my god daughter). She’d be reading Bronte or Byron on the plane. In fact I can remember her telling us to pipe down in the chalet because she had homework to do. She got a lot of A* and A’s, received the school award, DofE Gold award, had her pick of unis and is now studying at King’s College.

If that’s how my two turn out then I won’t be upset.

You choose to have kids, there are consequences and restrictions that go with that choice.

Yep, there are plenty of them without adding more through daft rules.

I just don’t accept that. We are talking about primary school kids here, not GCSE or A-level students.

Where do the targets for high school students come from? Their performance at Primary School.

I’ve said earlier I recognise the hassle it causes for teachers. But I think the real driver for this is the target driven culture of the education system…

100% agree.

…and I don’t see why parents should have to suffer the inconvenience and expense of regimented holiday periods in order to maintain a school’s league position in the attendance charts.

That’s the thing, it’s NOT inconvenient – 13 weeks a year, you get to go on holiday, how much more do you need? Sorry if it’s expensive, but hey – that Ferrari I always wanted is expensive, that doesn’t entitle me to circumnavigate the system and have something I can’t afford. I have the car I CAN afford.

pondo – I think you’re reading too much into subtle wording 😉 It’s only relevant where the parents enjoy it, but it wasn’t meant that this was all that mattered… And “consistent” in no way means a requirement – just that it is a positive thing rather than a negative thing.

I hope we can find a resort that is less busy/less expensive (but still good) during school holidays – as it would be more convenient to go away then when we have to take holidays anyway to look after the kids. Skiing is always risky but I’m guessing not many of the objectors have encountered the battle ground of busy slopes in holiday periods – there’s no way I’d subject my kids to that if I could avoid it.

Sorry if it’s expensive, but hey – that Ferrari I always wanted is expensive, that doesn’t entitle me to circumnavigate the system and have something I can’t afford. I have the car I CAN afford.

That’s a rubbish example (sorry 😉 – what if you could afford to buy it a week later (even though technically you’re not supposed to – but it won’t do anyone any harm and will make everyone happy)?

Don’t forget the OP is so keen on a family experience that he brings his old Mum along as well. How lovely! (& of course she can look after the kids while he & his wife go skiing )

She’s not that old (mid-60s) and yes she stayed with our one year old while we were skiing and our four year old was in ski school. It was something she offered to do last year and was keen to do again this year.

Personally I think having a grandma there adds to the “family experience”, especially as we don’t see her that often at home. But YMMV.

All this is about Mummy and Daddy want to go skiing. One gets the distinct impression that the needs or wants of the kids aren’t figuring too highly.

Ooof!

Yeah we really are awful, selfish people for promoting a fun sporty active holiday that we can all enjoy together for many years to come.

Would you say the same about those selfish gits that take their kids cycling?

Absolutely none, obviously.

Fair play, but does this…

To my (non-teacher) mind it should work something like this: parent speaks to the school (particularly the child’s teacher) indicating what they want to do and how they will ensure the child does not fall behind. The school offer guidance on whether they feel it is hugely detrimental or not and can grant or deny the leave on that basis. If the school approve it then the teacher can indicate the work and homework that the child will need to complete (from their existing lesson plans).

… not suggest an outrageous body of work? Even for Primary School, let’s say 30 kids per class and one teacher, on top of what they already do they have to sit down and make plans for each pupil, notwithstanding lesson planning not being an exact science (I don’t think – IANAT) and you can’t say in September what they’ll be doing the week before February half-term, notwithstanding the sinister impositions of OFSTED, notwithstanding the constant ongoing aggro of having to chase up kids who parents really DON’T give a toss, etc etc. How could it ever work at secondary school, where you’ve got different kids doing different classes with different teachers? That’s hours and hours of work, isn’t it?

pondo – I think you’re reading too much into subtle wording

Every chance! 🙂

It’s only relevant where the parents enjoy it, but it wasn’t meant that this was all that mattered… And “consistent” in no way means a requirement – just that it is a positive thing rather than a negative thing.

No, that’s cool, I read it as such. 🙂

Where do the targets for high school students come from? Their performance at Primary School.

I really don’t care. Nothing will ever persuade me that my 7 year old needs to be assessed against some arbitrary yardstick set by the government.

That’s the thing, it’s NOT inconvenient

Yes it can be.

– Local authorities tend to have different half term periods (no bad thing, it’s a start in addressing the problem) which means arranging to go away with other families on holiday (skiing or not) can be a pain if the half-terms don’t align.
– Work pressures. Everyone at work wants the half term off, but not everyone can have it at the same time. It’s much better all round if you can take leave when no one else wants to.

say 30 kids per class and one teacher, on top of what they already do they have to sit down and make plans for each pupil

Why would they need to do that, beyond what they usually do?

you can’t say in September what they’ll be doing the week before February half-term

No, but I’d hope a teacher would have enough in the way of rough lesson plans that they could tell me what topics they were planning to cover next week. (i.e. having agreed that I can take my kids out then they can let me know what I need to cover with them a day or two before I actually take them out).

Basically what I described was pretty close to how I understand (IANAT) it used to work on a more ad-hoc basis before the rules changed.

notwithstanding the constant ongoing aggro of having to chase up kids who parents really DON’T give a toss

They have to do that already, but currently they also have to chase the parents who DO give a toss and take their kids out with plenty of notice.

Ooof!

Yeah we really are awful, selfish people for promoting a fun sporty active holiday that we can all enjoy together for many years to come.

Would you say the same about those selfish gits that take their kids cycling?

1. Which could be achieved without going skiing.
2. Which could be achieved if you weren’t going to Whistler as well.

I’m taking my kids cycling this year. Much cheaper than a skiing holiday – you could probably afford it.

Which could be achieved without going skiing.

If you want to try to re-program my wife to enjoy an active sporty holiday centered around something that isn’t snowboarding then please be my guest.

I’m taking my kids cycling this year.

Oh so Daddy wants to go cycling? I get the distinct impression that the needs or wants of your kids aren’t figuring too highly. 😆

We always took our kids out of school for a week’s holiday (although not skiing) – it did them lots of harm obviously, my daughter got the highest grades in her year group at GCSE and A levels, both of them went to uni, both they now have well paid jobs.
Education used to be for the benefit of the children, if you chose not to take advantage of it occasionally, then so be it, your choice. Nowadays, it seems to be more for the benefit of the schools themselves – to get higher up league tables, therefore attract more pupils, which gives the school more money.

That’s a rubbish example (sorry…

Fair play, I accept that too. 🙂

… – what if you could afford to buy it a week later (even though technically you’re not supposed to – but it won’t do anyone any harm and will make everyone happy)?

But whilst I accept it’s not a great analogy, I’m gonna reject that as irrelevant, if you don’t mind – the fundamental point for me is that you’re getting something you can’t afford by… Not “cheating the system”, as such, that’s putting it a bit harsh. But you know what I mean, it’s breaking rules no matter how insignificant they might seem. And I’m going to shut up at that point as I sound a reet nonce. 🙂

If you want to try to re-program my wife to enjoy an active sporty holiday centered around something that isn’t snowboarding then please be my guest.

So save up. So don’t go to Whistler. So do something your kids enjoy and get over yourselves.

Oh so Daddy wants to go cycling? I get the distinct impression that the needs or wants of your kids aren’t figuring too highly

Nope, it was my wife’s idea as she thought the kids would enjoy it. I’d rather be riding up Alpe D’Huez but I recognise that my kids come first.

I really don’t care. Nothing will ever persuade me that my 7 year old needs to be assessed against some arbitrary yardstick set by the government.

They don’t assess your kids for your particular interest and amusement.

Yes it can be.

My bold.

– Local authorities tend to have different half term periods (no bad thing, it’s a start in addressing the problem) which means arranging to go away with other families on holiday (skiing or not) can be a pain if the half-terms don’t align.

Nightmare – maybe they should arrange to have the thirteen weeks of annual school holidays synchronised across the whole country.

I’m taking my kids cycling this year. Much cheaper than a skiing holiday – you could probably afford it.

If the snobbery around skiing is based on how much it costs, that’s the whole bloody point, we’re trying to bring the price down!

I’d love to take my kids on a cycling holiday, but they prefer skiing, and the 7 year old wouldn’t get very far on a bike to make it worthwhile. It’s my fault admittedly for taking them skiing in the first place, but I remember begging my parents when I was young to take me skiing and they refused and instead took me on numerous boring beach holidays where all there was to do was get sunburnt and bitten by mosquitoes.

do something your kids enjoy and get over yourselves.

Did you miss the bit where I said my four year old had been going on about wanting to go skiing again ever since our trip last year? I’m pretty sure she enjoyed it.

And what is wrong with getting kids into sports that you enjoy like skiing? Or cycling?
Surely it’s a lot easier to sell to them if they see you having fun doing it too?

So don’t go to Whistler.

Erm… why??? I’m not following your logic here.

Did you miss the bit where I said my four year old had been going on about wanting to go skiing again ever since our trip last year?

And your one-year old?

And what is wrong with getting kids into sports that you enjoy like skiing? Or cycling?

Absolutely nothing.

Surely it’s a lot easier to sell to them if they see you having fun doing it too?

If you have to sell it to them, perhaaps they’re not quite as keen as you make out.

So don’t go to Whistler.

Erm… why??? I’m not following your logic here.
You were complaining about the cost of a skiing holiday. The solution seems obvious.

Erm… why??? I’m not following your logic here.

Because they’re jealous. That’s it I’m afraid. Like I said, miserable judgemental sods!

Why would they need to do that, beyond what they usually do?

Sorry – talking in terms of, when you pop in to pick up their homework for the time off.

No, but I’d hope a teacher would have enough in the way of rough lesson plans that they could tell me what topics they were planning to cover next week. (i.e. having agreed that I can take my kids out then they can let me know what I need to cover with them a day or two before I actually take them out).

I’m sure they would, if they didn’t mind getting in early or hanging around after work to pass it along.

They have to do that already, but currently they also have to chase the parents who DO give a toss and take their kids out with plenty of notice.

Then don’t take your kids out. 🙂

Because they’re jealous. That’s it I’m afraid. Like I said, miserable judgemental sods!

You can believe that if it helps you.

Though complaining about being judged seems pretty odd, given the OP.

Nowadays, it seems to be more for the benefit of the schools themselves – to get higher up league tables, therefore attract more pupils, which gives the school more enough money to survive.

FTFY.

“The education system in this country is creating a generation of children who are unable to think for themselves. Since the introduction of league tables in 1992, there has been a shift in priorities in schools away from traditional teaching methods towards teaching exam tactics to help schools to advance up the league table rankings.

League tables were created to try to give parents the information that would allow the forming of a free market within education and school choice. However, this objective was never achieved. Instead, the tables have given the government greater scope to intervene in schooling by the introduction of various target and policies. As a result, not only has the quality of education decreased, but the league tables themselves have ceased to represent the actual relative quality of schools.”
– from Adam Smith’s blog[/url]

And your one-year old?

She didn’t express a preference, but she does enjoy time with her grandma and liked the sledging and general playing in the snow so I’m happy to assume she is a yes until she tells me otherwise.

If you have to sell it to them, perhaaps they’re not quite as keen as you make out.

Statements like that make me doubt you actually have any kids. 😀

You were complaining about the cost of a skiing holiday. The solution seems obvious.

Your solution is to sacrifice a different holiday, something meant as my 40th birthday treat, so that I can afford to pay two grand more for the same holiday that we had but a week later, in a crappier hotel, at a much busier time, with poorer lessons?

Why would I do that?

Why would I do that?

So you don’t have to take your kid out of school

HTH

She didn’t express a preference, but she does enjoy time with her grandma and liked the sledging and general playing in the snow so I’m happy to assume she is a yes until she tells me otherwise.

Which could be acheieved at home.

If you have to sell it to them, perhaaps they’re not quite as keen as you make out.

Statements like that make me doubt you actually have any kids.
I find the eldest is much keener on an activity if we back off and let her do it herself, rather than trying to force her to like what we like.

Your solution is to sacrifice a different holiday, something meant as my 40th birthday treat, so that I can afford to pay two grand more for the same holiday that we had but a week later, in a crappier hotel, at a much busier time, with poorer lessons?

Why would I do that?
Because that’s what you signed up for, so it’s curious that you find the revelation that half-term holidays cost more to be so startling.
I find your use of the word “sacrifice” instructive.

I find your use of the word “sacrifice” instructive.

Is there a rule somewhere that says parents shouldn’t do stuff without their kids? And what’s this ‘signed up for’ rubbish? I chose to have kids, I didn’t see any contract.

Definitely take the children out of school OP. Don’t do it for the price difference do it for the valuable time and life experience.

Little bit of one to one learning while your away and they will come back 3 months ahead of the class.

Teachers posting with their blinkers on by the looks of things.

Is there a rule somewhere that says parents shouldn’t do stuff without their kids? And what’s this ‘signed up for’ rubbish? I chose to have kids, I didn’t see any contract.

Again, instructive. For the hard of thinking: it’s not news that half-term holidays are expensive. It’s also not news that skiing holidays are expensive. So if you want to take your kids skiing, cough up, and if that means not doing something else, that’s the way it goes. Gee, you could always go for a bike ride instead.

Oh, and if your kids go to school, you have seen a contract.