Taking the kids out of school to going skiing. Opinions?

Hard to beat

thestabiliser – Member
This year a weeks skiing, what next year? It’s a slippery slope.

Boom, tish.

Ultimately what code do you want your kids to learn? “Me, myself, I” or “respect” ?

>I believe that taking her out was a net benefit to her. That’s my honest “justification” to myself and I wouldn’t have done it if I thought otherwise.<

Bullsh1t.

You took her out because it was clearly a £net benefit to you.

The problem is that some parents who didn’t care about their kids education abused the rules, and so all schools lost sensible discretion.

Exactly. Despite people saying this isn’t a new thing, the bit about automatically reporting parents and fining them is (a Gove-ism I believe).

When we were all growing up the schools could exercise sensible discretion, as several posters have described. I think there was a default assumption that parents would want to do what was best for their kids unless they demonstrated otherwise. Whereas now the assumption seems to be that all parents are feckless idiots that kids must be protected from.

In both cases its about saving money and nothing else.

I don’t think anyone is denying that. Going at half term can add two grand to the cost, compared to going to the same place a week earlier. That’s the difference between it being expensive and too ridiculously expensive to consider.

I’m also quite happy to be protected from having a future generation of unemployable illiterate numpties running around

As above, we didn’t have these restrictions growing up. Is our generation full of unemployable illiterate numpties?

As above, we didn’t have these restrictions growing up.

I think you will find fewer people went abroad on thier holidays so it wasn’t so much of an issue.
The crux of it for me is what it is you think you are teaching your child. To me it says “I can get what I want even if I can’t afford it”: Gratification of my own selfish wants is ok as long as I can think up some specious justification for it. Ultimately it is the attitude which caused the financial crash….. Enjoy the skiing.

Bullsh1t.
You took her out because it was clearly a £net benefit to you.

Nope.

If the choice was “we can go this week or in half term when it costs a couple of grand more” then that would be true (and a still a bloody good reason)

But our choice was “go the week before half term or we can’t go” so at that point it was a simple weighing up of “what will she gain from a week of skiing versus what will she lose from missing five half days of colouring in dinosaur pictures”.

The skiing won by a tight margin. But we did make her do some extra colouring in the evenings to make sure she didn’t fall behind.

Haven’t read the rest of the thread, but at least part of my life is dedicated to teaching in a sixth form, on top of which I have a number of kids of my own in school, and I say ‘go skiing’.

I think you will find fewer people went abroad on thier holidays so it wasn’t so much of an issue.

Indeed but surely the UK holiday prices increased too?
I guess overall demand for holidays is probably higher these days due to increases in disposable income etc, so that inflates the costs.

The crux of it for me is what it is you think you are teaching your child. To me it says “I can get what I want even if I can’t afford it”:

Hmmm what lessons does it teach to say to your child “Yes I know we went skiing last year but now you are in school so we can’t”

Will that help them enjoy school or encourage them to see it as the enemy?

What lesson does it teach to say: “Mum and dad think this rule is daft but we must always submit to absolute rule and never question anything”

People like me may have caused the financial crash. But it is people like you that let the nazis in. Enjoy the new world order. 😉

As above, we didn’t have these restrictions growing up. Is our generation full of unemployable illiterate numpties

I was talking about chewkw’s strange notion that it should be a parents a parents choice wether they educate their children at all, and not decided by “beurocrats”

Oooh, Godwin!

I fully understand the arguments for taking kids out of school. We have two ourselves. But we also knew the financial consequences of having them and what it would mean for our ability to afford holidays.

Our kids understand that we have cheap holidays because we can’t afford to do more expensive ones in the school holidays. And that is partly because their sport and music clubs cost us about the same each year as a weeks skiing. They get to take part in the discussions about time and finances, and have not yet said that they feel that their lack of foreign skiing or a Mediterranean sun tan is a problem.

They also know that a lot of their friends who do get more expensive holidays have parents struggling to get any work/life/family balance in order to afford it.

Edit: God I sound like a sanctimonious arse when I read that back 🙄

But I respect you MCTD 😛

Sounds a healthy approach MCTD and we’ll probably get the kids involved in decisions like that at some point in the future but at four and one they’re not quite ready yet.

They also know that a lot of their friends who do get more expensive holidays have parents struggling to get any work/life/family balance in order to afford it.

Absolutely. Missus and I are lucky enough to be in above-average-pay careers, but we’ve also both elected to go part-time for those work/life/family reasons so disposable income is considerably less disposable than it was in those halcyon DINKY days of yore. 🙂

Hence why a couple of grand matters!

(Besides I had to make sure there was enough left in the pot for my boy’s trip to Whistler 😈 )

I bet that at four and one their annual skiing trip is top priority when discussing issues with their peers in nursery 😉

My sister, a teacher, tells me the date of her schools prelim exams were set only once the dates of the school ski holiday week had been set. First things first. The ski week is the first thing in the diary.

So if the school thinks taking kids out of school in term time for a school ski trip is OK I can’t see an issue with parents taking their children skiing.

dood, at 4 and 1 it’s not even a question – DEFINITELY take them in school time !

although if your boy’s having a trip to Whistler ( 😉 ), I’d suggest you have more cash than morecashthandash

My boy isn’t old enough to be taken out of school yet, however, when he is and there’s an opportunity to do something of some cultural/social/intellectual benefit, then we shall take him out of school if the need arises.

So, our boy will be state educated as neither of us believe in the entitled/elitism that goes hand-in-hand with fee paying private schools. This means he’ll be subjected to the waffle known as how-to-pass-your-GCSE’s known as the National Curriculum. Pretty much every single state educated student at a university has a pretty tough lesson to learn that they have to actually think for themselves and you know, figure it out.

With that in mind, will a holiday cycling / skiing / kayaking in Canada / camping / travelling in Europe, etc etc etc be of greater benefit to a child than sitting in a class for 10 days? I most definitely think so.

If there academic performance is compromised by a week away, use a small percentage of the money saved to get extra tuition to catch up if you’re not capable of imparting the knowledge yourself.

I’m astounded at some of the closed minded attitudes. For those suggesting that one must adhere to the strict rules enforced by a school about attendance, I jolly well expect you to be adhering to the speed limits if you’re out in the car late at night or fully conforming to corporate policy at all times. When I am sure that you might speed a little when you judge it safe to do so, or you might work in a way that slightly contravenes your corporate guidelines so long as it suits you and gets the job done.

Sorry but all this claptrap about irresponsible parents is just BS. Clearly if the child is struggling, lagging behind or it is a significant year e.g. an exam year, then you’d expect any sensible parent to do the right thing – and those parents that wouldn’t are probably failing the child in other, more serious areas. But other than that, a week out of the school year is no bother for the kid. The teachers don’t seem to bother when they want to go on strike or take an inset day or two so lets leave the high and mighty principles out of it.

I’ve taken mine out for a week the last 3 years, and they’re doing just fine – and we all immensely enjoyed our time away without an element of guilt at all. If they weren’t doing well I wouldn’t take them out. The only reason why i’ve not taken them out for a week this year is that the school has introduced more draconian rules and will charge kids so i’ve not bothered – thought its still financially viable to pay, but i wouldn’t out of principle.

My kids are at the age that they’re pretty exhausted by the end of a school term anyway, so very little gets done in the final week, the school is definitely on wind down by then, so nothing in terms of new content is missed.

When I was a kid it was still frowned upon at my school, but an element of discresion and common sence was exercised by both parents and teachers. There is only one thing driving this – the targets on child attendance. Its’s nothing to do with their education.

What about time off for bike racing?

Surely that’s OK?

For some reason a lot of Derbyshire schools had the week before off. I know of so many people who took advantage of this and got far cheaper weeks away even at places like centre parcs. I can totally understand why people do it.

i am taking my 5yr old out of her reception class to go skiing next month and have been fined £120.

wouldnt mind so much but when i booked it i thought it was half term (effing price certainly reflected it) but turns out i was looking at the wrong dates and we go the week before. apparently a week in the mountains does not constitute as ‘exceptional circumstances’ so gotta cough up.

i hate this middle class stigma too, i know its valid for many but for years i went skiing with my mates on last minute allocation on arrival deals staying in dorms, bunkhouses, or hotels fricking miles from anywhere, with some hand-me-down skis and borrowed clobber. living on bread, cheese and beer! it was just a weeks piss up really except we taught ourselves to ski during the day too. tearing down the blacks full of confidence but zero finesse, wiping out the Colmar kitted mincers! good times!

tbf we did have some luck with allocation on arrival too, being put in last unsold rooms in fancy chalets! result if you were expecting a week of ham&cheese baguettes.

apparently a week in the mountains does not constitute as ‘exceptional circumstances’ so gotta cough up.

Our school did tell us that if we could produce a letter from either of our employers saying that we couldn’t take the half term holiday for some operational reason then they might consider that as “exceptional circumstances”.

Would have been easy to knock up something on some headed notepaper, but neither of us felt comfortable lying about it.

To fly to the Canaries last week would have cost me £540 (with Ryanair), for this week it cost me £95 return. Yet another good reason for my giving up teaching : )

Sorry but all this claptrap about irresponsible parents is just BS.

The main argument is parents whining about the desperate need for a cheap holiday, despite knowing full-well that they signed up for compulsory attendance when they sent their kids to school.

The claptrap is the spurious justifications for it.

The main argument is parents whining about the desperate need for a cheap holiday, draconian rules that fine and report good parents for perfectly reasonable behaviour

FTFY.

Thing is with prices, people see it as they’re being hit with a premium for the popular time, school holidays, but the airlines argue those are the normal prices and the term times are discounted due to less popularity.

Anyway, solution is simply to stagger holidays. Different schools or regions take holidays at different times in the year, if not also staggering within schools themselves. Even it out and not everyone is going on holiday at the same time.

There’s a lot of people getting hung up on the fact it’s skiing (CLASSWORR!!!!), and missing the point that he rules have been changed (as Graham pointed out some time back) that it’s no longer down to parental discretion.

It’s another example of having to take the worst case scenario as the norm, rather than trusting parents to do the best for their children. It’s nothing to do with the schools, they have to police it though (and many don’t want too) as it reflects in their statistics badly. AFAIK there is no category for an agreed absence, it just shows as an absence, which reflects in the league tables.

My understanding is the fine is £60 (if paid within 28 days) per day of unauthorised absence per child. So adds up pretty quick.

If I were cynical I’d put this under the heading (along with certain OFSTED inspection changes) of trying to push more schools into academies and federations, where the organisational changes can cover the loss of headcount, as it’s clear the majority of people can’t or won’t comply.

We generally holiday in the UK. Hiring a cottage goes up by around £300 a week as soon as the school holidays hit (summer at least – smaller but significant increases at other times). I’m not exactly poor but it still hurts a bit. Mrs B is a teacher so we don’t really get the choice anyway but we have taken them out for a day (terrible stomach cramps all round) so we can do a holiday a week earlier and save a bit.

Anyway, solution is simply to stagger holidays. Different schools or regions take holidays at different times in the year, if not also staggering within schools themselves. Even it out and not everyone is going on holiday at the same time.

This is a good idea, but I reckon the prices will just go up for longer!
However, competition / demand might regulate more effectively so maybe it would be overall slightly cheaper. Worth a try anyway.

The main argument is parents whining about the desperate need for a cheap holiday, draconian rules that fine and report good parents for perfectly reasonable behaviour

FTFY.

You think it’s draconian, I think it’s perfectly reasonable. Regardless, you knew what you were signing up for, and the justifications you are providing are pretty pathetic, tbh.

The main argument is parents whining about the desperate need for a cheap holiday, despite knowing full-well that they signed up for compulsory attendance when they sent their kids to school.

They didn’t though. It was introduced in this Parliament, even though it appears there wasn’t a mass exodus from school every June – i.e. most parents acted responsibly but occasionally took an opportunity to have a holiday they wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford.

Isn’t just parents it affects either, I’m sure there are plenty of others who’d appreciate August being a little more reasonable a time to holiday financially.

Regardless, you knew what you were signing up for,

Nope. The rules changed. Bit like expecting a pension or certain working conditions then spitting your dummy out when they change.

Nope. The rules changed. Bit like expecting a pension or certain working conditions then spitting your dummy out when they change.

1. Graham’s kid is four, so they haven’t changed for her.
2. Compulsory attendance was expected prior to the introduction of fines.
3. My pension and working conditions have been changed more than once.

Next!

griffiths1000 »

All of which is available during the school holidays.

not for a 3rd of the price though.

Should’ve stuck in at school, got better results and a better paid job [/quote]

For the record i started school at 9yrs old and went straight into work at 15yrs old. I now only have to work 3 days per week to support 3 kids and a wife on my wage…and no i am not on benefits.

Of course i could have done the usual 12 years at school and 4yrs at uni and be working in Tesco 5 days a week but i preferred the university of life approach, not recommending it for everyone but it worked for me.

You think it’s draconian, I think it’s perfectly reasonable.

You think it is “perfectly reasonable” to threaten to fine someone and report them to social services for taking their four year old child out of school for five days?

As I understand it the rules were sold on the basis that they would give schools more power to address habitual truancy, particularly in vulnerable kids where the parents may be aware the kids are truant but not really care for whatever reason.

That is reasonable, but isn’t what is actually happening.

the justifications you are providing are pretty pathetic, tbh.

Which “justification” is pathetic?

1) Taking her out reduced the cost of the holiday by about two grand and meant there was the flight and room availability that we required. So essentially it made the holiday possible.

2) She is doing well in school and we don’t believe that at four missing a week of colouring in would do any long term harm to her education, especially when balanced against the other experiences she would gain.

The two “justifications” go hand-in-hand. The first is the practical reason that we considered it and the second is the important one, consideration of her overall education, development and well-being.

FWIW we discussed it with her teacher well in advance to make sure she wasn’t going to miss anything and ask if there was anything in particular we should cover with her while we were away. He was happy enough. There was a time when that would have been enough.

Just take them out, lie a bit, but do what you want. They’re your kids after all. This summer again out two go back quite late due to inset days at the start of September. Got a nice cornish cottage again for 350 quid cheaper than the week before. You have to play the system a little and bargains are to be had, if they’re perhaps one day late back to school then perhaps they were tired after the long journey home. Prove otherwise school 😉

and the justifications you are providing are pretty pathetic, tbh.

1. Saving 2k on a holiday is a pretty good justification from where I’m standing.
2. Parents being trusted to make their own decisions on whether their childs education and development will be negatively impacted is also a pretty good justification.
3. Maintaining a schools attendance statistics in the league tables is not a justification for a silly rule.
4. Punishing the majority of responsible parents for the errant behaviour of a few p*ss-takers is not a justification.

Glad it’s not just me dazh. Well said. And you brassneck.

In my experience it is the teachers that don’t give a toss about them.

Funnily enough, I’m writing this now because it’s the Monday after half term and Mrs Pondo has spent the last couple of evenings in tears after working all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday (we were away before then, had to chose the holiday we could afford because teachers can’t take leave to take holidays when they’re cheaper – hey, it’s just how life is, right?), and faces another term of monster workloads trying to get kids grades they (and their parents) don’t seem interested in working for, because if the kids don’t get the grades, that affects her career. So, you know, I wouldn’t say teachers don’t give a toss – some don’t, I’ve no doubt, there are lazy and feckless people in all walks of life. But not all, not by a long chalk.

As i said, i would likely get shot down in flames. To clarify in my experience there are two categories of teachers: the majority who don’t give a toss, but there is that rare breed such as Mrs Pondo who put their heart & soul into it, and unfortunately end up in tears, my hats off to them.

I don’t even think the majority of the “majority” started off that way but have been worn down by the bureaucracy & red tape of the schooling system and disruptive element of the classes. Therefore it is easier to not give a toss than to spend their unpaid time stressed out and in tears…..well that’s my bitter & twisted perspective anyway! 🙄

the majority who don’t give a toss,

Yeah, right.

The only justification for taking your kids on holiday in term time is cost. Cultural development etc are also available during school holiday times.

Every other argument is spurious.

So admit you do it to get a cheap holiday you otherwise couldn’t afford, and then people can agree or disagree with your point of view depending on their own.

The whole “rules have changed” thing is also rubbish. The rule has always been there, it’s the enforcement that has changed.

Do some of you complain that having small kids causes sleep deprivation? Some things just follow on from having kids and you have to just mtfu and deal with it.

the majority who don’t give a toss

Ha! I know a lot of teachers, and I’m pretty certain from the conversations I’ve had with them that it’s not the sort of job that’s do-able if you don’t give a toss about it.