[Closed] Take the points and fine or the driver awareness course?

Lynch him.

Do the course. You might find it interesting.

I went for the awareness course. I found it really informative, not just about why speed limits are there but also what else I should be looking out for and why. I'd actually support it being enforced for every driver every 5 years or so. The team that delivered it were very good, non-judgemental and not preaching. It was particularly poignant as one of the videos they showed relating to a road traffic incident resulting in the death of a young lad (pedestrian) was filmed a few hundred yards from my house.

Despite my protestations of innocence 10%+2 mph Guv. It would appear this is no longer the case rather quietly SYP have brought in a zero tolerance policy.
The ACPO guidelines are moot despite my best attempts at finding a way out via Pepi Poo.
I have been informed and its now a case of 1 mph over and there is no leeway by them, Even though this isn't public knowledge yet and many widely consider it the law I'm told its coming country wide no tolerance . So the speed camera on Oughtibridge caught me there is no wiggle room.

Well as you thought the big sign saying 30 really meant 35 then you might learn a few things about driving on the course.

Points unless you've got holiday days you don't know what to do with, or you can buy a day's holiday for less than £15. Unless that is you already have points, in which case some more might affect your premiums.

Edit: actually I tend to agree with others in this case though - the limit is 30, not 30 + some wiggle room. It's always been possible to get done for 31.

seems a no brainer to be, no points and course or points and a bigger fine.

Why are you even asking?

Most people I know who have done the course found it interesting.

Do the course , sounds like you need it.

Plus the points will mean an increased insurance premium.

[quote=franksinatra ]seems a no brainer to be, no points and course or points and a bigger fine.

Do you have to use your brain to work out how much a day of your time is worth?

I just did the course and found it excellent. And I would say that I have genuinely tried to incorporate what I learnt (or was reminded of) there into my driving.

Definitely do the course.

Ooo shit. I thought they all stuck to the ACPO guidline's... I went through a camera recently at just under an indicated 70 in a 60. Really ~66mph GPS says. No excuse but I was massively distracted by some screaming and shouting in the car....

How long do they have to send out the NIP?

Do the course and be entertained by other participants. Plenty of (female) youngsters which I found worrying.

The course - I took one a few years ago and if you go into it with an open mind then you'll learn something/update your knowledge. When I attended the course it was over thirty years since I'd passed my test so things were a little <ahem>rusty</ahem>

Do you have to use your brain to work out how much a day of your time is worth?

As its a day at work though it's likely more exciting than the alternative, and yes, it's a day of leave, but meh, I'd still do the course every time.

Despite my protestations of innocence

rather quietly

The ACPO guidelines are moot despite my best attempts at finding a way out via Pepi Poo

Even though this isn't public knowledge

Sounds to me like you still think you haven't done much wrong = [b]Go on the course[/b]

I did a cause last year in Dorset. It was largely a waste of time to be honest. Lots of statistics thrown around intended as scare tactics, a teacher who couldn't admit there's a possibility of steering round an obstruction as well as braking to a stop. Lots of "all other drivers are crap, it's not us"
Very little actual positive instruction and I learnt next to nothing. (One thing to be precise)
I wish I'd taken the points and not wasted my day.

Why would you not do the course?
The real cost to you is half a day of your time but you still have three points less on your licence and therefore a more comfortable margin in case you incur some more later.

[quote=njee20 ]As its a day at work though it's likely more exciting than the alternative

It's not though, is it, unless your employer pays you to take a day off to go on one. Should be compared with spending a day riding your bike.

You'll regret taking the points if you get caught a second (or third) time.

[quote=Ecky-Thump ]you still have three points less on your licence and therefore a more comfortable margin in case you incur some more later.

The question is what focusses the mind more on not speeding, going on a course or having 3 points on your licence?

It's not though, is it, unless your employer pays you to take a day off to go on one. Should be compared with spending a day riding your bike.

That assumes you use your leave for such activities. I rarely do, and end up taking Mondays off in November to avoid losing it!

Plus the unknown cost of increased insurance premiums which could exceed your 'day rate'.

The course I'd have thought, but if the fine and any insurance bump from the points bothers you less than having to attend a course take that instead, upto you innit.

Sounds to me like you still think you haven't done much wrong

[quote=njee20 ]That assumes you use your leave for such activities. I rarely do, and end up taking Mondays off in November to avoid losing it!

Ah, which is why I added the "holiday days you don't know what to do with" provision - I've never had that problem (and I presume you don't have kids?)

Plus the unknown cost of increased insurance premiums which could exceed your 'day rate'.

When I last checked 3pts made £0 difference to mine.

Only one of your options is likely to have biscuits

Did anybody else not read the OPs post and scroll straight to the second comment

Lynch him.

Made my afternoon

How long do they have to send out the NIP?

When I did it I could do it on a Saturday am so no leave wasted. Still thought it was a bit of a waste of time, not from the content, but mine was full of oldish people with a range of stinging insects in their bonnets and the instructor let them rant on. Also given lengthy coffee breaks, this is a massive pet hate of mine on courses full of randoms, I don't know you, I don't want to talk to you, let's have 5mins for a slash and grab a drink and finish ASAP.

The question is what focuses the mind more on not speeding, going on a course or having 3 points on your licence?

Maybe so, at a "the greater good of road safety" level, but at an individual level the question is purely about retaining the extra buffer to protect against getting caught again.

Take the course, that way you've still points to play with.

And it's only speeding if it was inappropriate speed, irrelevant what the sign says 🙂

I think they only do people for 33 in a 30 when they have loads of spaces left on these courses. They give you the choice but obviously they want you to go on the course. I wonder where and who the money goes to?

If you don't currently have any points then I would take them and the fine. It won't make a difference to your insurance and then you can get on with your life instead of wasting a day on one of the courses.

god I hate getting stuck behind people doing 33 in a 30. Drive like a normal person next time eh?

Do the course and steer the subject towards bikes. See how all the moans come out about cyclists.

Most I found were generally bitter about being there and ranting about various things. Though personally I found some of the course to be useful. Not the speeding but the general awareness stuff, and a few points of the highway code I wasn't aware of.

Wouldn't want to do it again, though at present if I get caught again it's points straight away.

Note that some insurance companies are now asking if you've done the course, so the course may not help keep your insurance from rising.

Surprised you have to ask OP

The course lasts 4 hours the points are 3 years

If you don't currently have any points then I would take them and the fine. It won't make a difference to your insurance

On the course the OP should open with why he shouldn't be there are he was doing allowed speeding.

Teetosugars - Member
How long do they have to send out the NIP?

14 days iirc.

Aaahhh, should be OK then. Was nearly 4 weeks ago. Just the divorce to finalise now 😀

When the opportunity arose I educated them about cycling and safe overtaking. 😀

Do the course and be entertained by other participants

This

I had one rage quit. Lots of confused old ladies, conforming-to-stereotype BMW driving rep.

I was surprised how terrible people were at estimating speeds of cars on video.

The hazard perception was a bit silly though - had a bit of a tounge-in-cheek go at the instructor who assured us there were something like 95 hazards in a 1 minute clip. Someone using stepladders on a shop front, overhead cables etc....

I got done for 78 on the M6 but was saddened that everyone else was SP30.

I did the course - no problem with that and it was interesting.
My whinge relates to the booking process. They offered me morning/afternoon & Dorchester/Bournemouth so I went for morning/Bournemouth but what I got was afternoon/Dorchester!

mine was split with people grumbling about only doing 33 in a 30

and people like me, very relieved to have got away with only a speed awareness course 😀

Plenty of (female) youngsters which I found worrying.

Young female drives also appear to be the worst offenders* when it comes to texting/email/browsing/facebook whilst driving.

* based on the number I see vs the same in any other age/sex group.

To all the people having a go at the Op:

So when they continued asking him , he
lifted himself up and said unto them, He
that is without sin among you, let him be
the first to cast a stone at her. So when
they continued asking him , he lifted up
himself, and said unto them, He that is
without sin among you, let him first cast a
stone at her.

It's always been possible to get done for 31.

True, but no-one ever has.
Nor 32.

Anyhoos, the ACPO no longer exists, and there was never a leeway of 10%+2 in their guidelines, that was the point where the absolute minimum action was to prosecute.

When I last checked 3pts made £0 difference to mine.

That's the unknown bit i mentioned. Plenty of insurers will be interested.

Well put jekkyl which is why we use laws not fairy tales to regulate society. The OP thinks that he was fine speeding because of a get away with it margin, for that especially going for some more education seems like a sensible thing to do.

14 days iirc.

To the registered keeper, so if it's a company car it could take a lot longer to get to you.

[quote=rocketman ]The course lasts 4 hours the points are 3 years

The 4 hours is real, the 3 years is theoretical if you're lucky like me 😉

Don't be so righteous Mike. You've never sped? It matters not that it's a fairy tale, the point is relevant.

+1 for doing the course - you'll learn lots.
I'd like to see it made compulsory for all drivers every 2 years... it's a great reminder of your responsibilities and just basic awareness of how to drive properly

cinnamon_girl >>
When the opportunity arose I educated them about cycling and safe overtaking.

And kidded yourself anyone actually listened/learned??

I have, been caught taken the punishment and education. Never really hidden behind the I'm allowed to do 34 without being prosecuted. It's the really dangerous bit where people think like that.

[i]Don't be so righteous Mike. You've never sped?[/i]

If he drives 30 in a 30 I've never seen him round these parts!

An old lolly-pop man was killed down the main road past my house (by a "young female driver"). They've put up new bright signs "This is a 30 limit" and still people fly down it at 40-50. Sometimes I put my cruise on at 30ish and people get so close behind you'd think they want to ram me off the road.

I'd take the course but I have a high tolerance of bellends and bullshit. It seems like the sort of thing that could break a man, if he lacked such tolerance.

boblo - Member

Really ~66mph GPS says. No excuse but I was massively distracted by some screaming and shouting in the car....

Distracted AND speeding eh?

[img] [/img]

Good luck finding an insurer who's not interested in SP30s

Already have thanks. No increase in premium when I reported to them. I have also seen reports where insurance companies ask about awareness courses and premiums increasing as a result.

I suppose each case is different depending on the insurer and person covered.

And kidded yourself anyone actually listened/learned??

Dezzie - c'mon, an old cynic like me??? I provided the entertainment for a bit!

[i] It seems like the sort of thing that could break a man, if he lacked such tolerance.[/i]

Hi! 🙂

Yeah cruise control set to 30 in a 30 zone is always good fun. It's amazing how many people you get behind you 😈

Already have thanks

I did the course a few weeks ago. Wasn't expecting much but I found it informative and came away with a lot.

One thing they did say is that cameras don't discriminate. If you are doing over the speed limit you are speeding. If you get pulled over for speeding by a police officer he or she can use discretion. The cameras wont do that.

I learned a lot about stuff I had forgotten, ate a fair few biscuits and was entertained by a few of the other attendees who really could not see what they had done wrong. Plus its only 4 hours so you could do it as a half day from work.

I've seen various comments about the quality of courses. Do they provide for feedback at the end?

Do the course. I got one on a Saturday morning. You'll lose the will to live, but hey... better than points, which as we all know, despite Brucies protestations... don't make prizes

When Iturne up, I sat down, the bloke next to me looked a bit mystified. The bloke running the course said 'he's Polish and doesn't speak any English, the translator's not turned up, could you help him out a bit?"

I pointed out my Polish wasn't the best, either. The poor sod sat there for hours, mystified as to what everyone was going on about

Good luck finding an insurer who's not interested in SP30s

I've never found one that IS bothered by an SP30. Never made the slightest difference at all.

Did you actually post up on pepiooo?
There's lots of tales of people who claim they were doing 32/33 and got a fine yet no ones ever seen an actual ticket. I'm sure they'd like a look at it if nothing else.

rocketman - Member

Already have thanks

Congratulations. Who would this be?

Direct Line - Do you need my policy number?

[i]I had one rage quit. Lots of confused old ladies, conforming-to-stereotype BMW driving rep. [/i]

On the one I did you could pretty much divide the audience into two groups; one lot who knew they were speeding and were just pi55ed that they got caught and the other lot who didn't actually know what the speed limit was.

And this was confirmed by the multiple-choice electronic voting...

Do the course. Meeting some of the genuine headcases that are driving around really does wonders for your attitude to driving. One boy racer at mine, most of the rest were arseholes who deemed speed limits to be an inconvenience.

OP - it sounds like you've spent more time arguing the toss about this on the internet than you'll spend doing the course. Just do the course.

I have been informed and its now a case of 1 mph over and there is no leeway by them, Even though this isn't public knowledge yet and many widely consider it the law I'm told its coming country wide no tolerance . So the speed camera on Oughtibridge caught me there is no wiggle room.

There is something on the Internet about this and i read it once but cant be bothered to find it again.

Speeding is an absolute offence, meaning that you are libable for prosecution if caught 1mph above the speed lLimit. It is at the discretion of the Police whether or not you will be prosecuted for doing 1mph in excess of the speed limit. The issue is of tolerance of the measuring equipment which is why 10% is usually the 'rule'

So yes you can be done if you travel 1mph in excess of the speed Limit.

a quick Google Comes up with this http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm

[quote="MartynS"]There's lots of tales of people who claim they were doing 32/33 and got a fine yet no ones ever seen an actual ticket. I'm sure they'd like a look at it if nothing else.
Someone on the internet, making a claim about something, without offering a shred of evidence ? Must be a new phenomenon. I've never come across it before.

😉

Direct Line - Do you need my policy number?

It does seem odd that the premium should remain the same despite proving you are a greater risk. Kind of implies they were overcharging before. When I had my points in my reckless younger days it was definitely more. It was also a pain to get insurance as it was harder to get an online quote.

The issue is of tolerance of the measuring equipment which is why 10% is usually the 'rule'

It's really not, modern measuring equipment is very accurate. They don't generally prosecute for +1mph because if they did the system would disintegrate. They can't process that many people.

No excuse but I was massively distracted by some screaming and shouting in the car....

"Driving without due care and attention" then.

I'd do the course. If you're a rubbish driver you'll learn a lot, if you're not you'll be bored to tears and amazed and the incompetence of everyone else in the room. Either way, it's preferable to having three points on your licence for years.

rocketman - Member

Direct Line - Do you need my policy number?

it must be a special policy because they were definitely loading SP30 convictions just two months ago

Aye, ok. Look it up if you must, I take it you work for them being such an expert and all?

Policy Number: 101/8008135

Have elected to take the points and £100.

Yes, definitely 'without due care and attention'. My wife decided her view of driving was more relevant than the drivers and made so much noise about it I couldn't think straight. Really. No excuse though. I drive almost everywhere on cruise these days to absolutely avoid speeding and was very disappointed.

On the one I did you could pretty much divide the audience into two groups; one lot who knew they were speeding and were just pi55ed that they got caught and the other lot who didn't actually know what the speed limit was.

That, plus various posters admitting they learned aspects of the Highway Code on the course is just further confirmation to me that [i]all[/i] drivers should have mandatory re-tests every 5 years or so.

It would make a massive difference to the quality of driving on the roads.

[i]It does seem odd that the premium should remain the same despite proving you are a greater risk. Kind of implies they were overcharging before. When I had my points in my reckless younger days it was definitely more. It was also a pain to get insurance as it was harder to get an online quote. [/i]

In years gone by it was an easy way of looking at risk but now I'd have thought they had more sophisticated measures as IMO it isn't speed that causes accidents, but [b]inappropriate[/b] speed.

[quote=nickjb ]It does seem odd that the premium should remain the same despite proving you are a greater risk.

You're suggesting that being caught doing an offence which everybody does proves you are a greater risk? Like PP and rene, my insurance company didn't take that view (LV FWIW, though I think the first time I got caught I was still with Direct Line).

You're suggesting that being caught doing an offence which everybody does proves you are a greater risk

Regardless of whether or not you're a greater risk,

An insurance company now has a reason to put up your premiums without impacting their competitiveness (as they all have the same reason). Why wouldn't they take more money off you?

As I'm sat here waiting for the wife I just put some numbers into money supermarket. Adding an SP30 added between £17 and £22 to the policy YMMV. Not much but some