Sutra LTD or Croix de Fer? (Or Diverge…)

OK, having talked myself out of the Shand, I’ve come round to one of these two. (Or a Diverge.)

I just want something different to my hardtail MTB, something that does well on the 50/50 mix of road/off-road that my rides seem to be …. quite long, no trail centres, adventures in the wilderness and HT550 / TD dreaming.

• Croix de Fer = a bit more of a roadie, less of a tourer?
• Sutra LTD = fatter tyres, a bit more MTB-like, nicer colour … a bit more versatile?

What have I missed? Anything about either that I should know that might change my thinking?

Sorry if this is re-hashing old gravel-bike chat … I’m at work, and have pre-purchase anxiety.

Any insights / comments / experience / slagging-offs welcome.

Ta.

Add the Specialized Awol to your list, very capable bike for both on and off road stuff!

Add … to your list

aaaargh!

kona rove ?

– a cheaper sutra – can take 40c tyres and guards.

enjoying mine !

get the shand 🙂

kona rove ?

Yeah, the Rove is what got me started on this. TBH I still can’t really decide between the Rove (steel version) and Sutra LTD … apart from that blue the Sutra comes in … but the Rove’s lighter.

Ideally, the Rove ST would come with the Sutra LTD build spec. Then, even in that green, I’d be there.

… but the Rove ST is getting discounted now, is £500 cheaper, so … arrrgh.

And:

get the shand

I know, I know.

Get the Shand…

Why have you talked yourself out of it?

Why have you talked yourself out of it?

Good question. Am getting back into riding after 10 years off. Fitness still relatively low. Not completely sure how much time I’ll have over the next year or so to get fitness back.

Love the Shand Drove, it looks perfect for the sort of riding I want to do. But I don’t want to buy something I can’t really do justice to yet … or, at least, I’d rather wait ’til I have the fitness to make the most if it

… perhaps I’m overthinking it, as that argument applies to any bike, but there is also the fact that the Shand isn’t exactly the cheapest option 🙂 (although, for what you get, I still think it’s awesome value for money)

Hmmmm … this thread not exactly going the way I’d hoped 😀

What is the maximum tyre size you might want? +/- Mudguards?
It might narrow the field down. Probably won’t though.

Can you still get a Sutra LTD? Might be thin on the ground.
The Awol is very heavy, more traditional tourer.
Get a Singular Kite.

What is the maximum tyre size you might want?

This is part of the problem. I won’t really know ’til I start using the thing. I like the option the Sutra LTD gives you of going a bit fat if you want to, though. (Roadhouse is lovely 853 frame but 35c max tyres I think. That might be fine. I don’t know.)

+/- Mudguards?

Not arsed about mudguards, as far as I know. Want to be able to fit a rack though.

Part of the problem is the lack of demo/show bikes in Kona showrooms.

Rove/Roudhouse/Sutra LTD all seem to be on an order-and-buy basis only.

I had an original Sutra. It was certainly a bit “different” when was launched as it didn’t fit into any existing category. Lovely bike, if a little lardy.

The AWOL weighs as much as a small tank – but seems to roll over everything in its way like a tank too. Very stable and comfortable.

Not many drop-barred bikes on the HT550 if that’s a requirement.

Genesis Vagabond?

I built up a cdf with 40mm tyres but some days I wish I built a vagabond instead but not enough to change

Not sure what the tyre clearances are on a Shand Stoater, but if it went up to 40 then I would seriously think about that.

That sort of bike is more of a ‘bike for life’, so if you don’t justify it immediately, you will later.

The Drove looks more quirky.

i assume with a name like dorset knob your no where near …but if your near abz and fit a large…. i has one.

i took a punt based on the numbers as i see frame numbers like the matrix 😉

I’ve been pondering one of these: http://www.veloheld.de/shop/veloheld-iconx/

Light and well designed by the look of it. Just under 2kg for the large frame; so not your standard gas pipe tubing you find on alot of these types of bikes. Custom colours available for a little bit extra.

Forget all the mass produced and cheap sh*te…get the Shand. Things of beauty. 😆

Considered the Vagabond, can’t remember now what excuse I used to eliminate it from my enquiries.

Part of this is just that I’ve always fancied Konas, right from Cinder Cone/Explosif splashy-paint days.

Oh, that Veloheld does look good, too.

Thanks trail_rat, yeah, I’m Oxford-based at the moment. Think I’d need an XL in this type of bike.

My head is spinning again now. 🙄

… yours the alu or steel one, trail_rat?

get the Shand

Stop, foul tempters.

mines alu.

didnt see the need for owt else.

my requirement was actually i wanted a kona jake – like what one i had when i toured new zealand.

the roves pretty damned close wit hall the jakes short commings answered – except the fork , the forks a bit harsher due to bigger tubing.

FWIW i still dont think the sutra has a place yet – single ring – whats that all about. Its like an endurogravel bike for STW riders – will need a 54tooth rear cassette extender though.

not gonna lie – singlespeeddan has a shand stoater and the concepts the same but the detailing on the stoater is sublime and it does ride lovely. I couldnt face paying 1300 for the frame/forks just for the detailing though – at that price i was more likely to buy Ti – in the form of a camino – oh and my heels clip the chainstays on a stoater due to the shape i guess.

my Stoater has clearance for 650b X 48mm + mudguards….

pretty sure you wouldn’t regret geting the stoater, but you might with the others…

Hmmmmmm.

resale on the shand is better .

other than that it is just a bike 😉

will look better on the wall too mind.

on my second Croix De Fer now, current one is a 2015 CFD30, with hydraulics. Mine fits the bill perfectly for loaded or light backroad touring, winter road and occasional foray around forest tracks.

If I could afford and justify it I’d have a Shand…

Seeing as you’ve failed to mention a budget…

Open UP

Orro terra gravel?

Dorset_Knob, you’re not that far from Bath. Cadence usually have at least one Rove, Sultra etc. Often multiples of each for size etc. Give them a shout. Great shop too.

FWIW, the OH looked as the Kona’s. Ended up with a Croix de fer, not looked back, certainly didn’t regret the decision.

I’d echo scotroutes comments too. If you’re seriously considering the HT550, or TD, then I’m not sure any of the bikes mentioned would be any better than your HT.

Thanks urban hiker, I’ll call them in the morning. Need to see/ride a few I think.

Problem is, I have no real requirements, beyond getting a second, fun, bike and a bit of extra impetus to get out and ride.

(that’s the trouble with titanium frames – they never give you any real reason to upgrade)

the open UP has grown on me… crazy price though.

A couple that don’t get mentioned often Velo orange piolet probably heavy but looks very versatile or light race bike koga beach racer looks bonkers good. Cheers 1 shed.

I had a Diverge Smartweld with nice Shimano hydro discs & 105 for 2-3 months – too “racy” for me, just didn’t feel “right” – so went back to my Surly Pacer with 33.3mm Rivendell Jack Browns, but……

after a little light touring and some light off road (South Downs Way sections) the calipers on the Pacer don’t cut it, so shortlist is….

AWOL – cycle to work scheme friendly, but heavy and basic groupset
Vagabond – C2W friendly but sold out as a bike I understand
Piolet – hhmmm, maybe
Soma Wolverine – looks really versatile
Stoater – too expensive. If I could afford it, I’d get one
OPEN Up – too expensive, and not sure I’d want a carbon bash about do anything bike

Where did that Koga Beach Racer come from! That looks rather nice 1 Shed….

Ooooh, I do like the look of the Wolverine. Forgotten all about that. Wonder if anyone on STW has one?

What about a GT Grade?

Here’s a list of interesting options to cause further confusion to the OP – http://www.wtb.com/pages/road-plus

What about a GT Grade?

Don’t like the look of it 🙂

If I was buying a GT, it would be one of these.

I’ve been pondering one of these: http://www.veloheld.de/shop/veloheld-iconx/

Very much doubt that frame will be sub 2kg