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Bought a second hand frame, and the BB is shot so went to swap it out. Non drive side was very stiff but came out eventually, drive side is utterly utterly stuck.
I am turning it the correct way as indicated by it being written on the cups, I've soaked it in wd40 overnight, tried pouring boiling water over it, battered the tool with a hammer and latterly clamped the tool in a vice and tried turning the frame.
So far I've managed to munge up the indentations and that's it. Any ideas? If i have to take a hacksaw to it, whats the best approach?
If you hacksaw off the external cup, the rest of it will be impossible to get out.
Can you clamp the cup itself rather than the tool in the vice and turn the frame (in either direction) - tightening it might actually help get it moving.
Get a pipe wrench on it.
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Also try something better than WD40, I've used Plus Gas penetratiing oil which seems to do the trick.
I'm not sure how a hacksaw would help.
What MH said ..but with more hot water, maybe wrap a cloth round it to keep the heat on the frame and not just poring off.
No idea why some ppl think it's necessary to screw on the BB so tightly.
Plus Gas. Pipe Wrench. Oh. And maybe a bolt and stuff and a big washer kind of thing to hold the pipe wrench on.
If you get really desperate then you could probably bash the internals out from the other side then very (very) carefully cut some slots from the inside to the BB shell in line with the BB axle direction. Very slow and very risky as if you go to far there is a good chance of destroying threads.
I'd do what Brant said first. Also I hear good things about coca cola but have no experience of using it myself.
If there's enough left, what you really wanted was a bb socket on a breaker bar...
I've used some sort of homemade fix with a lot of bolts and washers to hold the tools firmly on the BB then apply the force of 3 good men....
but basically it's like this
Some kind of penetrating / release oil (not wd40 or gt85) might help here. That's what I used last time I had a tough bottom bracket to get out. Spray it liberally the night before you plan to get it out. Then spray it again in the morning a few hours before having a go at it. Leverage is probably your friend - I connected all the bars in my socket set so I had a bout a 3 foot long bar attached to the bb tool. Your main problem is making sure the tool doesn't twist off the bb - especially if you've managed the cup already. Maybe have a friend to push the tool on the bb whilst you heave on the bar.
If you saw the cup off you can cut through the remainder of the bb which will easily collapse and come out.
You're likely to cut into the threads but if you it carefully and at a position where they are well reinforced (by another tube or weld) it will be fine.
Maybe have a friend to push the tool on the bb whilst you heave on the bar.
Painful version
fix with a lot of bolts and washers to hold the tools firmly on the BB
less beer to buy the mate with no knuckles
How long have you left it for after trying WD40 etc? Maybe give it a day and come back to it.
I fought with a Royce BB in one of my frames and tried everything I could think of. Took it into a shop the next day and they basically took it out with bare hands.
Have left it soaking again and ordered a socket type tool rather than the C cup style wrench I was using. Hopefully there's still enough left in the indentations for some victory.
Little bit wary of using coke on steel.
The main challenge between now and tool arrival will be resisting the urge to go in there every hour and try it to, making it a bit worse each time
Hammer and chisel...mind the frame.
Leverage, lots of leverage.
Plus Gas (lots of), tap BB shell with plastic mallet, BB tool in vice, hot water on BB shell and repeat in various order.
Steel frame an aluminium cup so CTE of cup is greater so you would want to flash cool the cup to it retracts away.
I would cut a slot through the outside bit and then carefully cut through the inner bit of the threads until you are just through to the teeth. Do this at two positions opposite each other.
Then squeeze in a vice to deform and break the remaining bits of metal and undo.
I would cut a slot through the outside bit and then carefully cut through the inner bit of the threads until you are just through to the teeth. Do this at two positions opposite each other.Then squeeze in a vice to deform and break the remaining bits of metal and undo.
If it's really stuck, this would be my approach.
The active ingredient in coke is just phosphoric acid,
1) it will eat the rust if that's the problem
2) it will coat the steel in iron phosphate (a good thing, it's how a lot of iron is rust inhibited commercially)
3) it will start the process of hydrogen embitterment, but that's not likley to be a problem with the timescales and concentrations involved.
So Coke will help, but only if the problem is rust.
As others have said, WD40 won't help much, need to be a proper penetrating oil.
Soak, leave, soak, leave, soak, leave.
3/4 mornings and evenings of doing this, some proper leverage and a washer or suchlike to help keep the tool on and I'd be amazed if it doesn't come out. IMHO need to go near a drill or a hacksaw.
Impact wrench.
Plus Gas, captive tool (like the CK one) and a 600mm breaker bar.
Gently heat the frame bottom bracket with a hot air gun. Don't leave it on too long or you will blister the paint on the frame. Short blasts with the HAG will do it.
If you can't get the proper tool on the BB shell any more because you have mangled it too far then you will have to use something like stillsons to grip the shell to undo it.
another vote for plus gas - wd40 is a wimp for this kind of job designed to exclude water, will free things up a tiny bit
Loctite do a freeze spray that gets these sort of things moving.
socket bolted in so it don't slip. Load it up with a long bar then hit the bb with a hammer to shock the threads.
Well here we are a few days later. I got some proper penetrating oil, left it in it for a few days whilst I waited for a socket to arrive.
Got some heat into it with boiling water
Put the socket on and gave it a healthy few smacks
Breaker bar.. nope. Ok, socket has flats on it to grip it, so in the vice it goes
turn the frame.. no wait, thats the vice turning...
secure vice more.. same again
secure vice more.. workbench tries to turn
secure workbench more.. indentations get more munged up
It's now beyond my help. Where to take it in Bristol?
TBH Id be in there with a hacksaw, even if it means chasing the threads afterwards to clean them.
Has previous user welded it in.
No joke, have spent an afternoon trying to get a bottom bracket out of a customers bike, only to find the previous owner (allegedly) had put a few blobs of weld to hold it in place as the threads were beyond repair.
They certainly were beyond repair by the time we'd got the bottom bracket out.
Shame really, as it was a nice frame.
Plus gas. Overnight. More plus gas.
I bolted the tool to the cup using the old BB.
I then stood on on chainstay, with bike upright on old cloths.
Two small_oabs then added a 6' (yes that is feet) scaffold pole to the ratchet handle by sliding over the top.
They then used the garden wall to balance while walking along the 6' pole.
As they neared the end, there was a lovely little sigh from the bb and it released.
The threads were perfect - just immobilised in there.
If it's a steel frame then get some caustic soda in there and see it melt away before your very eyes. Just keep your eyes well out of the way.
Just done this with a very stuck seat post.
Chorlton is right about Steel+Aluminium+Caustic Soda.
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Worked for me, Homebase £2 and a old washing basin and job's a goodun.
Mine needed two dips and one tub lasts about three goes.
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What you need to do is get a hold of someone, anyone will do, then explain in detail about how you're trying to remove this thing but it's stuck solid. No matter what you try it just wont turn, you have tried everything and it's definitely a problem with that and not you.
After you have explained this, that person will then take a shot and get it loose on the first try. That usually what happens when I can't get something to work anyway.
A friend's road bike had the same issue.
We used the vice technique. Because the bottom bracket kept slipping, we REALLY tightened the vice, to the point the bottom bracket started to deform. That gave the bottom bracket a 'flat' face and meant it didn't slip in the vice.
It eventually worked. We had to check more than once that we were turning the frame the right way.
If you want to avoid the caustic soda, you want a good vice clamped to a solid desk and use frame as leverage.
are you sure you are turning that anti clockwise? The slipping damage looks like you are turning it the wrong way.
A quick rule with BB's is if the bearings jam it will undo with normal pedalling and jam on the crank arms. This saves it being tightened into the frame if the bearings jam.
Pedal threads are the opposite and will tighten if the pedal bearings fail as having a pedal unscrew can cause an accident.
It's now beyond my help. Where to take it in Bristol?
Try the bike workshop on Colston St - they got a stuck seatpost & b/b out of an old frame for me.
This may be obvious, but I'll say it anyway...
don't forget if you have the bb clamped in a vice to turn the frame the opposite direction to the arrow on the cup....
I think OP's doing it right, unless it's "Italian" BB. "English" threading is left-hand thread for the drive-side, isn't it ?are you sure you are turning that anti clockwise? The slipping damage looks like you are turning it the wrong way.
Both side towards the front of the upright bike to undo. I agree that the marks look like it's slipping clockwise assuming that the bike in the picture is upright and non drive side.
I know you said there are arrows but stranger things have happened. Hope you get it sorted.
Absolutely doing it the right way..
So all booked in at a LBS to fix.. right. But wait.. surely this cant be beyond my powers.. surely. Especially after that extra penetrating oil applied yesterday...
Well go on then, one more go.
Socket on. Hammer applied for shock force
Socket in the vice, frame for leverage
Damn it's shredding the ... no wait! it's turning, oh my god its actually turning!
A few quarter turns using the frame for leverage and ... clunk... aha that'll be what everyone said about it unseizing!
No wait
[img] http://tinyurl.com/jjvcu39 [/img]
[img] http://tinyurl.com/gtcz97w [/img]
Oh dear
Now get your hacksaw out with a clear conscience.
That's the most stuck BB I've ever seen.
oh mate, that's dreadful. How much did the frame cost you?
What's happened?
Your pics aren't working, has it sheared???
Broken vice?
Think the hamsters at Photobucket must have run out of food again.
This thread is nothing without working pictures
[quote=cp ]Your pics aren't working, has it sheared???
Yup bearing housing off, thread still in frame
Engineering shop to drill it out then LBS to run a tap down the threads?
Well.. If you're determined not to bother with the caustic soda, then nuking from orbit is the only way to be sure. 🙂
I was going to offer to have a crack for you (live SW of bristol, work NE of bristol 😥 ) but my dad was down for a birthday weekend. He's now got flu so had to cancel so I would have had a crack with my cutting method for you...but now it sounds like you are really in a pickle.
I would still cut through what you can without damaging the threads and then go in with a very wide screwdriver/blunt chisel from the other side to try and catch the lip on the inside and fold the metal in and away from the frame.
From your previous pic it looks like a full suspension. Is it an alloy frame or steel one (like a cotic)?
This is how I ended up getting a stuck headset cup out of an aluminium insert in a carbon frame with an overhang that the headset butted up to stopping it from being drifted out:
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Cut through the external lip that would stiffen it and then weakened the inner bit without touching the frame insert. Then clamped the external part to squeeze it and free it enough to get it out. Now you have lost the outer bit it will make it a bit harder to fold it in but still doable.
Too late now but this stuff. [url= http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8802649931777 ]Freeze[/url]
Regards the left over thread inside the BB, I'd get a hacksaw blade and wrap some insulating tape or similar several times round one halve to use as a handle.
Then carefully cut through the inner cup in 2/3 places, if your patient you should be able to cut through enough so your just nicking the bb shell threads.
Then use a large flat blade scewdriver to start prying up at the edge where you have made the cuts to the leftover threaded section.
Once out either run a old bb in there to clean up the threads or take to bike shop and let them chase the threads out.
And in the name of all that is holy, grease the new one.
I thought I'd be able to finish this thread off tonight. LBS managed to get it out by cutting a slot in it and hammering it round with an appropriate drift (big fo screwdriver).
Perhaps I should have taken it as read that they would check the threads were intact afterwards and retap as necessary. Annoying to discover the new bb wouldn't thread in.
I'm beginning to wonder if the bike is cursed, or if there was some sign of buying a pup. Along with the generously included seized BB + cranks the headset was missing the crown race so useless, and building it up tonight I got it to a rolling chassis, sat on it and.. the rear suspension is incredibly graunchy. There is some horrific bearing death somewhere for me to try and pin down.
Feel like a total mug... ffs. Sold by a STWer without any mention of these problems of course. I could accept not knowing about the seized BB, no signs they tried to remove that, and even overlooking the crown race on the headset, but there is no way they didn't know about the awful noises occurring when you sit on the bike.
Sold by a STWer without any mention of these problems
Classified user only, hardly a regular user of forum.
Sorry to hear this OP. Always crap when you solve one problem and face another.
Just to quadruple check, you are loosening clockwise and tightening anticlockwise correct? (forget arrows and which way up bike is etc)
On the upside, once you've sorted all these problems you know that every possible moving part will be Quality Assured for the winter.
It's a bit crap; have you contacted the seller?
A quick rule with BB's is if the bearings jam it will undo with normal pedalling and jam on the crank arms. This saves it being tightened into the frame if the bearings jam.Pedal threads are the opposite and will tighten if the pedal bearings fail as having a pedal unscrew can cause an accident.
Correct directions, however this isn't the reason. In both cases the left hand thread prevents the item from loosening under pedalling forces. If your pedal is totally seized this is a non ideal situation.