Struggling

Preferably to somewhere extremely rural like the Highlands or the middle of Mongolia where there’s no booze shop around the corner

One of the overriding memories of a trip to the Outer Hebrides years back was the realisation that I was the only person in the shop queue on Sunday morning not holding a bottle of spirits and a mixer. So not sure about that suggestion.

Really feel for you OP. My advice, for what it is worth, is walk away. Nobody needs this level of shit in their lives and to be perfectly blunt it is rare that people change.

Both my parents are alcoholics. My mum joined AA and did well for a long time. I still keep her at arms length as I don’t want her influencing my kids in any way. She is emotionally manipulative. My dad has early onset dementia from drinking. I’ve not seen him for years and don’t know if he’s even still alive.

Just because someone is family, it doesn’t mean you owe them anything. Walk away from your Dad, he sounds like a selfish, manipulative prick. As for your wife, it is admirable that you wish to continue to help her. However, it sounds like you’ve done all you reasonably can. Walk away before she drags you down with her.

I don’t mean to be harsh but after living with two alcoholics and dealing with the violence and fear I have a metric tonne of my own issues. Cutting ties and moving away was the best thing I ever did.

I’ve only just read the OP and I actually found this bit the most painful to read :

If my dads talking to me about a subject he’s familure with that I am not, he makes fun of me for not knowing something and will look for the nearest person to laugh at me with.

That is utterly toxic and he must be really screwed up to treat his own son like that. Your whole relationship with your father in fact appears to be toxic and must be extremely damaging to you. For your own sake I would put some considerable distance between you and him, you really don’t need this added burden whilst dealing with your other problems.

I would avoid saying anything or having any sort of confrontation as he will definitely not change in the short term, so it is completely pointless. Just avoid him as much as possible, and for quite a long period of time. Although recieving professional support and advice would be ideal.

Very definitely talk to friends especially if you currently have no counsellor to discuss issues with. When people keep their thoughts to themselves during periods of intense stress they are likely to come to unrealistic conclusions. Sharing it with others helps to maintain a more realistic perspective, and it also helps to overcome a sense of isolation which can be deeply damaging.

You just posting on here suggests that you are motivated to do something even though you might not know exactly what. It is an important first step. The very best of luck.

@ Wheels have stopped I think it took courage to post this on here.  I don’t really have much to add other than to repeat what others have said particularly about speaking to your friends. Your friends will do their utmost to help you.I didn’t have a great relationship with my dad for several years we worked in the same place and even ended up fighting at one time. Anyway I moved away and had little to no contact with him for years and things slowly began to improve, so I think limiting your contact with your dad might help too  Take care and look after yourself

Might be worth contacting charities that support families of alcoholics:

https://al-anonuk.org.uk/

https://alcoholchange.org.uk/help-and-support/get-help-now/family-and-friends

I don’t want to say “leave”

I do.

No kids? I think you should follow Scotroutes’ example above, and separate for a start.

And please do talk to your friends. I promise they will not feel burdened and will want to help.

Finally, see about some counselling for yourself in the short term. You can either go to your GP, see if your employer has an EAP which offers it (most do) or just go private.

And sorry your Dad is so useless. But don;t let his expectations or attitudes be an additional burden.

At risk of repeating what others have already said…

Talk to your friends so they know your situation.

Tell your father (I’m reluctant to use the word dad as that implies a level of endearment) exactly why you no longer wish to see him, then follow through by not seeing him.

I don’t have any advice for dealing with your marriage, but only as I am currently in a situation that is somewhat similar and I also don’t know how to move forward. It’s still difficult but while I don’t have a particularly supportive father I don’t have the toxic behavior you have to deal with. That must really take it’s toll.

I’m going to repeat myself. Talk to your friends, they are friends for a reason and mates want to help each other out.

If you really don’t want to talk to them, give us an idea where you are. I know I would be happy to go on a bike ride with a stranger if helped them deal with all the crap they are going through. I know many forum members would say the same.

Ooof – not a comfortable read, OP

I’d be dropping your dad faster than a red-hot turd; he sounds like a nightmare.  I’d tell him why, and then walk away either for good or ’til he mends his ways.

It does sound like your wife is not being helped by you being there for her so, hard as it sounds, I’d be out of that door too at least for a while.  She needs a metaphorical kick up the arse and that might even be it

As everybody says, talk to your mates and let them help you through

Good luck, whatever you decide

I’d tell him why

I wouldn’t go that far TBH. It’s easy to down communications with people. “Telling them things” might make you feel better in the short term but it just fans the flames, it invites a response and around you go again.

I’ve excised toxic people from my life via the simple process of having nothing further to do with them. It works really well, my only regret is not working it out sooner.

I know he’s your dad , but he sounds like a cock to me. I would quietly disengage from him . Just don’t reply to messages or contact him . Life is too short to let this type of person grind you down. It’s debilitating and they suck the joy out of any situation like a cactus in rainy season.

As for your missus. That is tricky , but don’t fall into the trap of thinking you can change them. You can’t, only they can . Plus they have to want to change themselves dramatically.   This will probably mean going tea total and that’s a big ask of someone who clearly enjoys alcohol a little bit too much.

It’s new years eve. Before she gets hammered you might have to sit down and deal out a shit sandwich.

I love you , but your alcohol addiction is going to finish us and I really don’t want that to happen.

Good luck for the future

Well she’s drunk again. I got home from work and she was angry. I asked what I could do to help and she said “nothing”. Then said I told her I don’t want to go on holiday with her. I don’t, but didnt tell her that. I then said lets talk about it in the morning after some sleep. She said I never want to talk about her drinking. I always tell her I’m ready to talk whenever she needs someone to talk to. Whenever I bring the subject up when she’s sober, she says she doesn’t want to talk about it. It’s an on going cycle.

She ran out of alcohol and tried to drive off to buy more. There was one bottle in the house that was hidden but she didn’t know where and I didnt have a chance to get rid of it yet. I had to stand in the doorway and ask her not to drive and to give me the car keys. All the time being calm. She blackmailed me into giving her the bottle of wine to prevent her driving off. She gave me the spare car key and said she had lost the other.

She’s now passed out. The other car key was in her handbag the whole time.

This morning I started think the holiday might be good but now, I feel terrified to go abroad with her when she’s like this every other day.

I would have called 999 on her when she tried to drive ( maybe – easy to say from the outside)

My pal I mentioned got his wake up call when he crashed a car drunk was arrested and banned.  He has been struggling with alcoholism for years but has not got to anything like that state since.  His partner also gave him an ultimatum.  It was enough to just about pull himself back from the brink

I know someone has already suggested Al-Anon Family Groups but having read your latest update I would strongly suggest that you contact them.

Home

I did contact them myself many years concerning someone’s drinking problem and the lady on the helpline was herself was a recovering alcoholic, I think all those who answer the phone might be. They will certainly understand the situation you find yourself in.

I did call the police once before when she was out driving and I knew where (nearby supermarket). I practically begged them to go and breathalise her knowing she would be there for at least an hour. The police said I should have stopped her and have a responsibility to do so or could be held accountable if something happened. I hung up before giving any further details.

Call a close friend, pack the essentials and leave.

I can’t help with your wife’s problems (is she going through the menopause?).

However regarding your bully of a father, it really is time to step away. A therapist once said to me:- just because people are your family, it doesn’t mean you have to have anything to do with them.

atm you need people in your life who care and have your best interests at heart.

Good luck

Ive been thinking about this a bit.  Of course its impossible to say what to do as I am not in your shoes.  However:

I think an ultimatum is needed.  ~She has to quit drinking by a set date maybe a month in the future and engage with counseling or you are out.  Then stick to it.  something has taken her to this dark place and two things are needed – she needs to stop drinking and she needs to deal with her demons

She is dragging you down and at some point unless she changes you are going to have to bail to save yourself.  I don’t know how old you are or how long you have been with her and how long this has been going on but supporting her is not working.

another pal of mine was in this sort of position with a partner who was an alcoholic.  He is a good man and tried everything.  Eventually he had to walk away for his own sanity.

Sorry to read all this, op

Have to agree with the other posts. Reduce or cut contact with your dad.

It doesn’t sound like your partner wants to sort herself out. The whole ‘control the drinking’ thing in my experience is a total excuse and really means that drinking still counts first second and last. Sorry to sound negative.

Look after yourself.

Talk to your friends.

Think seriously about getting out.

I’ve nothing much to add to the advice above, except this article in The Guardian has been a continuing help to me. I’ve covered my drinking in other threads but I’ve not had any alcohol (apart from a rogue Christmas pudding) since May the seventh last year. I made the decision to stop without telling anyone else and now I’m so proud I occasionally tell random strangers!
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/may/24/the-truth-about-booze-how-alcohol-really-affects-your-body-from-first-flush-of-happiness-to-hangover-hell?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Good luck OP.

Calm (campaign against living miserably) have a WhatsApp and Live chat if that would help, rather than a phone call. Details on this page.

https://www.thecalmzone.net/suicide-prevention-helpline

I made the decision to stop without telling anyone else and now I’m so proud I occasionally tell random strangers!

And so you should be! I once attended an AA meeting with a friend who is a recovering alcoholic and I found the experience truly inspirational and humbling, when I listened to appalling things that life had thrown at some people who nevertheless had the strength to overcome them through sheer determination.

man that going out to buy more booze situation i can relate to, was there myself a few times, and any attempt to stop her would essentially escalate into a physical situation, was crap to be put in the position of “responsibility” i feel for you

and yes losses, lost my mates little brother (would’ve just turned 45) due to Alcohol and previous substance abuse, but Alcohol was the poison for the latter years. he essentially ended up being in care of his elderly parents for the last few years of his life, his parents had to watch him drink himself into the grave and potentially die in their house due to it. he wasn’t able to be stopped. he was told point blank he may have 6 weeks or 6 months, he made it well over a year.. didn’t stop him in that time either.

Some mentioned above, an ultimatum.. maybe that is something you should get rolling. At least you will draw deadlines up for you both.

I did call the police once before when she was out driving and I knew where (nearby supermarket). I practically begged them to go and breathalise her knowing she would be there for at least an hour. The police said I should have stopped her and have a responsibility to do so or could be held accountable if something happened. I hung up before giving any further details.

This is kind of shocking (or maybe not, given the stories you hear about the police these days).

Often the only option to stop someone who is absolutely determined to do something, and this is doubly true when they are drunk, is to physically stop them.  As a man, statistically you are probably going to be able to physically restrain her but it doesn’t mean you aren’t putting yourself in a lot of danger.  Physically confrontations are extremely unpredictable and who’s to say someone who isn’t in their right mind wouldn’t have decided to pick up a kitchen knife and put it in their pocket on the way to the door

Quite apart from that, if you physically restrain her then you are opening yourself up to all kinds of liability if she then decides she has been assaulted and there are no witnesses.

The reason we have police is so that untrained people don’t have to get into physical altercations.  You absolutely did the right thing and the police have behaved shockingly here.

Yep, can we examine this point a bit more and hopefully someone  can give some solid advice to the OP?

Surely what the police said about him being liable is bollocks?  Can anyone confirm as it looks like the better option available to the OP next time..

My understanding of the police thing.  I am no lawyer

law is very complex, often police do not actually understand it well.  Even lawyers will only know one part of the law.  domestic violence which is what this is is often badly dealt with by the cops particularly if the victim is a man.

You have a  duty and an obligation to attempt to report and attempt prevent a crime being committed.  However there is no penalty if you fail.  You have a right to use reasonable force to prevent the crime – the amount of force being commensurate with the risk.  You do not have to put yourself in harms way.

So in this case blocking the door and trying to stop her would seem reasonable.  If she starts hitting you let her go and report to the police.

You cannot be held responsible for her crime unless you help her.  So giving her the keys and saying ” get on with it then” would be helping her.    Stepping aside if she is attempting to hit you would not.  However its a serious crime putting folk in danger so the amount of force deemed reasonable would be pretty high I would have thought.

I am not a lawyer.  legal advice on the net from lay folk like me is worth what you pay for it 🙂

YOu can report a drunk driver anonymously – I have done so

Sorry, just to be clear, I’m asking for “legal’ advice on whether he is liable if he does not actively try to prevent her. Nothing else.

I think trying to actively prevent her is a stupid idea, but calling the cops and leaving them to deal with it is a good idea. But due to the shit chatted by the cops previously the OP is wary of doing this

I’m asking for “legal’ advice on whether he is liable if he does not actively try to prevent her.

I very much doubt it.  to be liable he would have to do something active to help.  Mere inaction is not enough I would have thought.  I think its reasonable to try to prevent her but not at the cost of being assaulted

I am not a lawyer. legal advice on the net from lay folk like me is worth what you pay for it 🙂

Not much more to add, i agree that to just stop contact with your dad, as they say you can pick your friends but not family, but it doesn’t mean you have to put up with him.

With regards to your wife, i think you have to simply be blunt, and say you love her, but you cannot take anymore, plus lay it out to her that if she keeps driving drunk, then eventually with harm herself or even worse someone innocent in the car and you’re not prepared to see that happen.

And rely on your friends, that what true friends are for, speak to them especially those who’s opinion you trust and can help.

Of course the OP isn’t liable for anything if they fail to stop someone else driving drunk. That’s just a policeperson/call handler making up nonsense to excuse their lack of action.

I’m in the ‘walk away’ camp and see what happens from a distance.

My niece was in a relationship with a controlling, alcoholic and abusive man for 7+ years. The family had tried over the years to get her to leave but we could ‘never see his good points’.  He’d taken out finance and credit cards in her name. He crashed his car while drunk and was banned for three years. He’d attacked her and police had been involved on many occasions but she’d always refused to press charges.

As a family we cut him out of our lives and would only see her if he wasn’t around.

It all came to a head at my daughters 21st birthday gathering in December 2023. She had a massive row with my daughter (full Eastenders Christmas special), and the family as one basically decided we’d done with her and cut her off.

But over this last year she’s completely turned her life around. She’s managed to get him out of her house and just about out of her life. He’s a scheming little runt though and has tried to wheedle his way back in numerous times. She’s been seeing a Police domestic violence councillor and is in the process of getting a restraining order in place. She’s just rented her house out and moved back to where the core of the family is (4 hours from where she was living).

We’ve accepted her back and she spent Christmas with us and seems happier and more focused than in years.

She’s done the bloody hard work so we take no credit for that, but the ‘you’re on your own now’ ultimatum may just have been the shock she needed.