Strava being stupid again

the enshittification will continue until profits improve

the other way to look at this is – they’ve been far, far too generous for too long. How many other companies would allow a 3rd party, for-profit company, access to all their data, for nothing, forever?

There must obviously be some middle-ground whereby rather than just providing it all for free, or flat-out banning it, API access is available (for a fee) for said 3rd party companies, which is fair enough IMO.

 other way to look at this is – they’ve been far, far too generous for too long. How many other companies would allow a 3rd party, for-profit company, access to all their data, for nothing, forever?

2 problems with this firstly it’s not their data, I know you sign over rights but GDPR would suggest that they would be on shaky grounds trying to enforce that, and secondly they are doing this across the board as opposed to just for non-paying accounts.

There is no paid API option currently.

As a free loader who only really uses it to track coaching rides, I’ve downloaded my data and deleted my account. I get everything I need (and then some from the Garmin system as I record all my stuff on Garmin devices.
Other than the social side, Strava didn’t give me anything I wasn’t getting elsewhere…and the social stuff was giving kudos to a few people or adding ridiculously hilarious comments (never been confirmed!) on other people’s activities.
No loss to me and without doubt zero loss to Strava.
I don’t have many connected apps, so it isn’t a huge loss to me, but I suspect this is going to mean this data gets monetised – and I’m pretty certain I won’t be getting any payment for the data I’m syncing to Strava. I never used heatmaps or segment finders, so I’m not missing anything.
Hopefully those 3rd parties are able to connect to other sources like Garmin, wahoo, Lezyne, polar, suunto, etc so they can still prove very useful.

2 problems with this firstly it’s not their data,

its not your data they are preventing access to – you can still manually download it and forward it to whoever you like. It’s their API’s which are a bit like a delivery network for computers. And costs money to run. Pretty easy for a MBA to point at it on a spreadsheet and say ‘nah’.

I don’t think an argument that personal data isn’t personal data if accessed via a programmatic API is really going to fly. The sensible move for Stave would have been to start restricting API endpoints for free users, but it sounds like they’ve **** the bed instead. Veloviewer access is likely a non-negotiable for me as a Strava subscriber. I really don’t care enough about bespoke activity names or AI cheerleading or whatever other nonsense to keep my data on Strava if they’re going to start being officious about what I can do with it via their API endpoints.

I’ve put this on the other Strava thread but if anyone’s not seen it:

There’s an option using fitfiletools.com to hack any fit file to change the device type. Anyone so interested could mimic a Garmin Edge 540 (for instance) and then upload said fit file to Garmin to get all the Garmin stats they want.

It’s not automatic though so a PITA unless you’re dedicated…

firstly it’s not their data

It’s their data platform.

I expect the biggest cost Strava incur as a business is ensuring their APIs and underlying infrastructure are scaled to a point that allows them to service all the API requests they currently get.

So not only are they letting other companies profit from their data platform, they are spending a pretty big wad of cash to allow other companies to profit from their data platform.

While I think they way they have gone about it is poor, I am not at all surprised by this.

@vlad_the_invader Yeah not sure I cba to go through all that each time, the training load is only a passing interest as I use TP/WKO for that level of info.

Just that I had a nice chain going back several years (I know only 90 days really counts) and I’m in the process of switching from Zwift to TP so that will be broken.

Strava I’m caring less and less about, it’s just a way to stay in touch…

Is this going to bugger up Probikegarage which uses ride durations and lengths to provide servicing reminders?

They use Strava, so I push my Garmin data there so it can get through to the app.

I don’t think an argument that personal data isn’t personal data if accessed via a programmatic API is really going to fly

Thats not whats being said, its still your data, they just dont feel like its good business to be providing easy access to it for your friends.

If you pay a library to look after your books, they are still your books. Doesnt mean the library has to front the cost of copying your books and posting them to your friends. Kinda douchy if they have been doing so for years, but thats late state tech capitalism for you!

I can see a situation whereby Strava charge those 3rd party apps for using the API, and they in turn have to recoup the cost from their users. If they’d announced that was coming in a few months and given everyone a chance to react, that would have been sensible and equitable. However, they’ve just shit the bed completely. My VeloViewer subscription is due in a few weeks. It looks daft to renew it if there will be no data for it (and remember any use of historical data is forbidden too).

Never heard of velo viewer so just looked it up, if they are charging a fee to the user and essentially piggybacking off Strava for free then I don’t see a problem with what Strava are doing

Is this going to bugger up Probikegarage which uses ride durations and lengths to provide servicing reminders?

This question was asked in the PBG strava club chat and the developer doesn’t think it’s an issue.

piggybacking off Strava for free then I don’t see a problem with what Strava are doing

Strava are piggybacking off others, now they are claiming ownership of the data and not allowing those same others they are harvesting data from to use the data. Frankly everyone else should just apply the same conditions to strava, and then watch as strava collapses within days.

As regards to VeloViewer, most of it is only available to Strava Premium subscribers anyway, so they’re actually helping to drive Strava income.

https://intervals.icu/ is apparently close to being ready for direct Zwift uploads.

In some ways I hope this kills off Strava and the likes of https://connect.garmin.com/modern/home or something new picks up the pieces, they plotted their own downfall over recent years.

Strava are piggybacking off others, now they are claiming ownership of the data and not allowing those same others they are harvesting data from to use the data.

I don’t think that’s quite accurate – Strava aren’t (and can’t) prevent a company like intervals.icu having access to your data as long as you can get your data direct to intervals. Currently people are using Strava as the way to bring together, store and share their data from multiple sources and I guess they have plans to monetise that.

Currently people are using Strava as the way to bring together, store and share their data from multiple sources and I guess they have plans to monetise that

Ideally monetise that – but it’s costing them huge sums of money to support right now so stopping it is probably their main priority.

The fact it is being done so fast suggests to me they may be having some mild financial woes

Ideally monetise that – but it’s costing them huge sums of money to support right now so stopping it is probably their main priority.

I think they built the whole business around being the kind of community place to share your rides – and encouraging the third party apps etc. Veloviewer and all of those have attended Strava hackathons etc. And many of us who are subscribers have done that on the basis of them providing that sharing. So this is a bit of a pain they’ve changed their minds.

I get that they have built a big portal for data – but that was kind of what we were all buying into. People getting data out of that portal are using the portal but i don’t think strava are doing anything to make individual data better (some 3rd parties seem to say that the Stravva data is degraded than Garmin data if you compare like to like)

I wonder if their main concern is 3rd parties downloading huge amounts of data to compile the heatmap kind of story that Strava are selling to local transport planning

I wonder if their main concern is 3rd parties downloading huge amounts of data to compile the heatmap kind of story that Strava are selling

This sounds a plausible explanation for their new stance.

All of this happened before…

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/07/strava-platform-dispute.html

Strava basically closed access to the Relive app that provided 3D fly-throughs post-ride.

And then introduced their own 3D fly-throughs post-ride.

The fact it is being done so fast suggests to me they may be having some mild financial woes

Or someone just did an ‘audit’ and thought, ooft.

How many of us would work for free so others can profit?

Post on Facebook from Veloviewer.

From David at intervals.icu, earlier today…

This is looking like one of those instances where the written T&Cs are more restricted than the company is communicating. Of course, the danger of that is that they later fall back to the T&Cs without warning.

I think they built the whole business around being the kind of community place to share your rides – and encouraging the third party apps etc. Veloviewer and all of those have attended Strava hackathons etc. And many of us who are subscribers have done that on the basis of them providing that sharing. So this is a bit of a pain they’ve changed their minds.

Yea, I think it is going to be some of these genuine use cases that are going to get hit hardest and that makes me a bit sad too. I was actually getting on well with an ai coach that pulled data from strava. This change will pull the rug from that so I need to come up with a workaround.

I get that they have built a big portal for data – but that was kind of what we were all buying into. People getting data out of that portal are using the portal but i don’t think strava are doing anything to make individual data better (some 3rd parties seem to say that the Stravva data is degraded than Garmin data if you compare like to like)

I think this is the real crux of the issue and why I think the needed to take a slightly more pragmatic approach than they have. A lot of strava users are not active users because of the features that strava offer, but because of all the interfaces Strava has with other apps. Pretty much every device can sync with Strava and pretty much every app can pull data off the strava API. This is of course because the strava api has historically been very easy to work with and strava connects with all the big players already. The side effect of this is you get people who are passive strava users but use the strava data service as a postman to get their activity data from their device to whatever apps they want.

The sheer volume of data that is getting flung around from potentially millions of people who have not even logged into strava for years is probably huge. Probably being the word here, because they are not being even slightly transparent.

They could easily have made this a subscription feature or even an add on.

I wonder if their main concern is 3rd parties downloading huge amounts of data to compile the heatmap kind of story that Strava are selling to local transport planning

This is another very good point. Although I think they still need to have user permission to connect and get the data from strava – although the big players with a lot of users could easily obtain enough data to make a heatmap viable.

Not sure how this is going to affect zwift racing and ZRL stuff but that is how I understand it works. Everyone uploads to strava purely as a database of information to then figure out the race results. Zwift and ZRL don’t have the capacity to do this themselves.

Won’t affect it at all. Both zwift power and Wtrl (ZRL) get data direct from zwift. Upload to Strava is about visibility and performance verification.

the enshittification will continue until profits improve

Companies need profit though. Were you not aware of this?

Companies need profit though. Were you not aware of this?

Of course, I do run a technology company for the day job.

An update from VeloViewer

https://forums.garmin.com/testers/tacx-app-beta/tda/f/qa-issues/392249/tda-4-63-0-52635-feedback-and-issues

In summary, you’ll just have to occasionally confirm that your OK sharing your data with folk you’ve already agreed to share it with.

Looks like Strava have rolled back on the tackity-bits approach.

Well, that’s one fewer analysis platform now available. I know a few folk on here have used crickles. They’re now prevented from using any Strava user data in their heart health analysis. This is genuine medical research being stymied by Stravas new T&Cs.

Crickles after Strava

That is very sad to hear.

That sucks, hopefully Crickles can get access to Intervals data.

I’ve read Crickle’s post, and for now have cancelled my Strava subscription renewal. When my billing period ends I’ll have a think about whether to carry on or delete my data from there.

Trailforks also being badly affected. Sad as it is the 1 app which has made a huge difference to my riding experience.

Can I get Garmin to upload to Trailforks directly?

Yes, you got to your trailforks profile and then connect the Garmin Connect app.
They are working on a way to bulk upload Garmin ridelogs to Trailforks so any that were done device – Strava – Trailforks can be replaced with the bulk upload using Garmin connect.

Is there anyway to connect the Bosch Flow app directly to Trailforks?

You’d need to check the Bosch app or website and the Trailforks website and see if they connect…I can’t check my Trailforks as it keeps opening the app and I can’t find a connect option on there, so I’m assuming it must be on the website.

Can’t see Bosch on the list of connections –

Mapmyfitness, Fitbit, wahoo, polar, trainingpeaks, suunto, whoop, coros, hammerhead Karoo, Komoot, ridewithgps, xert, bryton sport, xoss, zwift, peleton, zepp, mapmyrun, mapmyride and mapmywalk