Still Blindly Defending him Hora?

Thor Hushvod of Credit Agricole:

DZ: Thor what does it feel like to have the coolest name in the peleton?

TH: I didn’t know it was a cool name.

DZ: Trust me it is.

TH: O.k. then. It feels pretty cool then.

DZ: Thanks for the interview.

in many peoples eyes he will never been seen as the greatest cyclist of all time (even though he is)

no he isn’t Eddie Merckx is.

I’m not sure he can be declared the greatest cyclist of all time considering that he failed two or three drug tests during his time.

Even if he was awesome to the power of sic and conincidentally far better than any clean rider in history at a time when EPO was rampant, his whole team was dirty and I would be very surprised if Lance didn’t know it.

Remember the blue train? Most of them seem to have been on drugs and I don’t believe a team leader like Lance would leave the preparation of his TDF team to chance. I’m sure we’ll find out more but I would be very surprised if there wasn’t an organised doping program like Freiburg University.

I’m not sure he can be declared the greatest cyclist of all time considering that he failed two or three drug tests during his time.

as did all the top ten (apart from the likes of coppi etc when there was no testing and drug use the norm)

Simeoni gets my vote for the greatest.

Really! are you talking about Marco or another Pantani?

Yep he never failed a drugs test – he was once chucked off a tour for odd haematocrit levels but never failed a test.

And for all those claiming armstrong is the most tested athlete ever – this is not the case – more spin from the publicity machine.

I used to be a huge armstrong fan, wastotally in the def clean camp but unfortunately for me there’s too much evidence against him now (epo in urine samples, the failed test, his treatment of jesus, simeoni and other riders, the gagging orders on his wife and girlfriends,the team being pre warned of tests and having half hour to prepare for tests, and now the sworn testomony of ten ex team mates). At the end of the end of hte day he’s also not a nice person (anyone remember the youtube footage of him deliberately riding into a man at the end of a race and then having a go at him?)

Pantani who also never failed a drugs test”

Really! are you talking about Marco or another Pantani?

Yes this one he had a haemocritic level above 50% so it was termed a fail but he never teested postitive for any drug

Although he never tested positive, his career was beset by doping allegations. In the 1999 Giro d’Italia, he was expelled due to his irregular blood values. Although he was disqualified for “health reasons”, it was implied that Pantani’s high haematocrit was the product of EPO use. Following later accusations, Pantani went into a depression from which he never fully recovered. He died of acute cocaine poisoning in 2004.

People supporting LA are increasing looking like kids who don’t want to accept there is no Father Christmas.

Stop sucking up the spin from the Armstrong Empire.

1. Drugs have been found in his samples
2. The inventor of the test for EPO has looked back at LA blood patterns and said it was impossible for him not to have been doping
3. He battered people we now know were on EPO
4. The list of witnesses who have testified against him is getting longer and longer.

Well Pantini certainly failed one drug test! But not a sport related one.

“Although he never tested positive” that is a bit of an untruth.
You need to look a bit further than the wiki.
Failed tests yes, convicted? no. Death stopped play:-(

Possibly some of the above posters could convict me as being the one who did it…….did any of you work on the Police force that investigated those crimes?

My dad did, I’ll have a word with him….

I suspect they’re gonna catch LA via the backdoor, which is a cunning wheeze but could backfire. Sounds like they’re gonna name and shame sseven people including LA, prove 6 did do some doping/helping doping and thus the implication is LA is guilty. Dangerous tactic that isn’t going to resolve anything unless they nail him on his own with his own results etc. etc.

Can we wait and see please.

I doubt he’ll ever be proven guilty..

..or innocent!

Oh no. Hes guilty as sin. As proven by drug addicts and internet followers of le Tour 😉

It is worth repeating that those who think “They were all cheating so it’s a level playing field” are being naive. It isn’t just a case of popping a pill & then going faster. A lot will depend on the skill of the doctor in giving the right drugs in the right doses (that’s why they got paid so much.) Even then, different people respond in different ways to doping. Someone percieved as naturally awesome may just have a body which responds better than others to the pharmacology they have available.

omeone percieve as naturally awesome may just have a body which responds better than others to the pharmacology they have available.

In the same way as some people have bodies that respond better to training than others..
The concept of a level playing field in any form is always naive. It’s just down to which bumps in the field you approve of.

“Although he never tested positive” that is a bit of an untruth.
You need to look a bit further than the wiki.
Failed tests yes, convicted? no. Death stopped play:-(

Bit like lance but saddly no longer here

hora you can wait for the results but tbh nothing will convince me he is anything other than a doper – no one is that awesome. He was able to beat exceptionally talented athletes like Ulrich and Pantani and not have cheated NO ONE could have done this.
I doubt anything will convince his fan boys either who will shout set up /witch hunt, never failed a test etc

I cannot see LA admitting it and have a road to damascus moment he star would plummet and the sense of smugness from the “doubters” may cause the world to stop spinning

I really does take some incredible personal faith in him to ignore the evidence

” He was able to beat exceptionally talented athletes like Ulrich and Pantani and not have cheated NO ONE could have done this”
I understand what you are saying and it is hard to beleave.
But during the time in question i think that dopers had gone from “i need something to get me over that hill” to “i need something all the time to be the best.”
With that comes a certain amount of failure, crash and burn if you like. So they could be beaten with a more consistant approuch.

But we’ll see about LA.

Fanboy?

What an exceptional story though. He cameback and not just to live a careful life but to live a life that was at the peak of physical endurance for ANY man.

Simple awesome. Clean or otherwise.

Simple awesomeannoying American who is not as good as other cyclists in history but somepeople want to bum him regardless. Clean or otherwise.

In the same way as some people have bodies that respond better to training than others..
The concept of a level playing field in any form is always naive. It’s just down to which bumps in the field you approve of.

I tend to approve of the bumps which aren’t cheating.

Do you follow Lance on twitter?

He’d have a teeny weeny bit more credibility of his mantra wasn’t “Never tested positive” but “Never taken performance enhancing drugs”.

The fact that they’re planning on letting self admitted dopers ride the Tour and Vuelta this year before banning them at the end of the season, when they are coincidentally retiring from the sport, makes it look like nothing more than a hatchet job aimed at Armstrong.

If you don’t give them some sort of reduced ban/penalty for their testimony, who on earth would come forward on a voluntary basis? Seems quite reasonable if these people (amongst the dozens AT LEAST who know what happened) put themselves out that they don’t end up with lifetime bans.

He’d have a teeny weeny bit more credibility of his mantra wasn’t “Never tested positive” but “Never taken performance enhancing drugs”.

Got to agree. There’s an air of the Richard Virenque about his comments (Virenquesque??)

he has though al but as part of his cancer treatment so he cannot really say that tbh but it is an interesting phrase he uses.

What an exceptional story though. He cameback and not just to live a careful life but to live a life that was at the peak of physical endurance for ANY man.

Simple awesome. Clean or otherwise.
Yes it is simply awesome however he achieved it as he still worked his arse off.

If you don’t give them some sort of reduced ban/penalty for their testimony, who on earth would come forward on a voluntary basis? Seems quite reasonable if these people (amongst the dozens AT LEAST who know what happened) put themselves out that they don’t end up with lifetime bans.

I understand that they need to offer them something to get them to testify but if this is the case, how can you knowingly let a rider like Hincapie ride for Cadel Evans in the Tour and give him a potentially significant advantage over other riders?
If this is the case then it would just serve to tarnish the win if Evans were to take the yellow jersey.

Do you follow Lance on twitter?

No.

He blocked me as I dared to ask why he moaned so much about being tested.

Well I would expect they don’t think they are doping now as these offenses are going back quite some time. According to the news reports I read, they’ve admitted to PAST doping not that they’re racing today doped. I’d assume that they’re tested and viewed as clean, particularly the Garmin guys.

Do you follow Lance on twitter?

No, he blocked me for daring to suggest that getting his team to stop on the final day of the tour to change kit was disrespectful to the winner of the tour. The last day is the winners day, and his hijacking of the media coverage was pretty low

So, if they strip him of his titles, is the second placed person also likely to have been doping?

My feeling is yes.

if you look at actually who came second its a resounding yes.. Most of them have admitted or been convicted…

it was so much better in the old days when cyclists were real men and only took coke, amphetamines and alcohol to improved their speed and hopped on the odd bus

Lance has the best tweets.

LOL at realman

Lance has the best tweets.

no way. they belong to NY velocity of toto fame.

Lance has the best tweets

Particularly when he slammed a bloke about to go under the knife to cut out a tumour but who, oddly, didn’t want anyone to buy him a Livestrong bracelet.

I can’t believe Lance is doing ironman.

So, if they strip him of his titles, is the second placed person also likely to have been doping?

My feeling is yes.

Interesting chart of Armstrong TdF top 10s showing known dopers – riders in grey have been busted or otherwise closely implicated at some time (not necessarily in that year’s Tour though).

No, he blocked me for daring to suggest that getting his team to stop on the final day of the tour to change kit was disrespectful to the winner of the tour.

the race organizers made them change,

they didnt set off, change and then change back,

they set off in the changed kit and had to change back

the winner of that tour cheated anyway

2.5 pages added in the last 4 hours, good work chaps and chapesses.
Are we any closer to an answer or am I still going to have to wait for an official verdict?