Steel gravel / touring frame recommendations.

I recently did a trip in the Highlands and used my diverge comp carbon.

Whilst the frame has lower rack mounts and the forks have mounts, the bike when loaded felt terribly noodley and I don’t think I’d want to use it again for touring with both front and rear panniers.   I reckon it would work with low riders mounted on the rear and some oversize cages on the forks.

So I am after recommendations for a frame more suited to touring with a thru axle rear and disc brake mounts and forks with a thru axle too.

Sometimes the noodley feel is the wheels. Many production wheels would be better with a bit more tension.

Check them first – unless you’re just needing an excuse for a N+1 🙂

Thru axles alone won’t stop it feeling noodle-like. That’s a lateral stiffness and steering trail combo, and the weight. Bikes like that aren’t really designed to carry a load that size, many bikes that are get criticised for feeling too stiff unloaded. Std road or adventure bikes also have steering trail that doesn’t help with loaded riding as it introduces more flex into the frame when steering, the steering needs something to react against – I’m not a fan of this ‘low trail’ idea either but I see some of the reasons they do it.

Keep the load under 6-7kg and spread it evenly as you are doing and it’ll ride OK. If you need to carry that much stuff you’ll be better off on a proper tourer.

Sometimes the noodley feel is the wheels. Many production wheels would be better with a bit more tension.

I was told tension doesn’t make a wheel stiffer, beyond the basic tension level needed to make a wheel. I’m not a wheelbuilder but it makes sense.

What’s your budget? If off the shelf, something like the Genesis CdF? Or get something custom made … Woodrups in Leeds comes recommended

I have a steel framed audax bike and it feels very noodly under load. Most of these bikes are still fast road bikes and intended for light touring only.

Also have a Genesis Equilibrium which I’ve never loaded up, but it’s a really stable bike and I think would handle well. Off the top of my head though, I think there might be limited options in fork mounts, so check that.

surly disc trucker.

The Holdsworth Stelvio is very solidly built and has all the rack mount. Not ridden loaded up yet but it’s super stable and not noodley feeling at all.

It’s not light though

If you’re not in hurry, there’s a new Singular Peregrine on the drawing board.

The Holdsworth Stelvio is very solidly built and has all the rack mount. Not ridden loaded up yet but it’s super stable and not noodley feeling at all.

Yup, just built one up, lovely stable and smooth ride

It’s not light though

It’s also not that heavy, and it’s pretty academic anyway if you’re going to strapping kgs of bags (and rider) to it.

You want a Kona Sutra LTD, you do.

Everything you’d want for touring, and still fun to ride the gravel when empty.

Great bikes and great value, although I did get mine at pre-Brexit rates. New version has thru-axles I think and comes in the best colour yet.

Can’t bring myself to sell mine even though I now have another, more expensive ‘adventure’ bike which I don’t really need and which serves to make the Kona look even better value.

I can’t help thinking those “rack mounts”, were actually only designed as mudguard mounts, and as the design got passed to the marketing department they magically turned into rack mounts. Anyhow, new bike most definitely called for. In true STW style, I’ll recommend what I have…

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3552/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-%28105-triple%29

Its a lovely ride unloaded, an utter dream with luggage. I’ve never ridden anything better with full on touring gear (though I only carry about 10-15kgs). Its also cracking value for money, looks lovely, has a bit of understated bling, i could go on.

nedrapier – Is it true about a possible new Peregrine? Always wish i’d bought one…

That Holdsworth Stelvio does look tempting.  Although my wheelsets are thru axle I could just buy DTS Swiss caps and a RWS for the rear and my SP hub comes with a thru axle adaptor for QR.

Damn good price too, especially, considering that some of the Steel frames are > £1200

Looking at how much you’ve loaded on to a carbon road bike makes me feel like I worry about my cycling kit way too much… Even the process of attaching a 3L set pack to my carbon post cost me some anxiety

As for recommendations, I’ll suggest a Genesis CDF as well. Seems a good balance of toughness vs agility to me.

But I do have one…

Things I don’t have that may also work, Cotic Escapade, Jamis renegade, Kona Rove, Specialised Sequoia, Salsa Vaya, Surly Straggler

Those are all meant to be more light-touring kind-of bikes, so not completely dull when unloaded

The Holdsworth looks really good in the flesh, and space for some decent size tryes too (I’ve got 37c on mine with guards).

I keep meaning to post some pics of mine now it’s built up. Job for the weekend.

Love my Croix De Fer, it’s very stable.

Apparently the new version which will be available soon (frameset only, I think?) will have thru-axles and be made of 853. Had mine almost 7 years now, nothing wrong with it, very tempted to upgrade though!

You can fit 650bx47 on the stelvio with room for guards too

Fairlight Faran or maybe a Secan for more flexibility?

Got a deposit down on a Secan but still waiting on more details!

Looking  good!

Max

The noodly feeling is probably down to the amount of weight on the back. As others have said, it’s not a bike that’s designed to carry a huge touring load. I’d either try to slim down the amount of kit you have, or get something that’s built a bit beefier. A Specialized AWOL with most of the weight up front would be a great option or a Genesis Tour de Fer/Surly Disc Trucker for something more of a traditional tourer.

Genesis CDF.  Or a Bokeh.

if you want a load carrier, then best suggestion would be a Salsa Fargo, not a lightweight like a true gravel bike, but feels very stable with weight on, at the end of the day it was developed for fortnight long events like the Tour Divide, Andy has one for sale in Classifieds, ace bike he did Divide on

faustus – whenever there are pics posted on fb or Instagram, Sam always gets people saying how they wished they’d bought one and asking when he’s doing another batch.  There’s plenty of interest, and some momentum building with interested parties to make it happen.

Obviously, if you need a bike for the summer, you’d be better off looking elsewhere, but there’s a decent chance of another batch being made in the not too distant future.  Definitely worth an email to add your interest to the pot.

ha ha thanks Scud. Fargo does ride well with luggage on. Otherwise something like one of the Surlys? Trouble is all so expensive now…

long time lover of steel bikes here, had em all over the years.

infact, this is the 1st time I haven’t owned a steel bike.

at present I am pottering about on a cube nuroad thing. and to be honest, it don’t feel any different to any steel tourer I have owned.

just saying like.

I’ve had a load of steel tourers or mtb frames used as such, you really need something designed for the job (Eg Vaya and Cassroll wobbled like there was no tomorrow, 91 Rockhopper was OK I think). I doubt many gravel frames are.

I’ve settled (being a hopeless bike-changer) on a CAADX – nuce and stiff loaded, and when you take it all off, light and stiff as a road bike.

The wheels need to be REALLY loose to affect things (wahsing line effect) and QR vs bolt through will matter not one jot (tho I expect that bit is there to save a new wheel purchase).

In the time honoured tradition on stw recommend what you’ve got. (Running 650b x 47)

Have you ridden that with F&R panniers?

Genesis vagabond

Only because I’ve got one and I love it👍

Pipedream ALICE or Finna Landscape are both nice.

We both use Surly Ogres.

Mine is my MTB inlcuding bike packing etc, and touring bike (both singlespeed)

Hers is her French Divide/ TNR style ride and touring bike.

When we have toured with them it’s been typically camping with our 2 young children. So carrying everything for 4 for camping on 2 bikes (including a 4 person tent with 4 person vestibule) and using a chariot trailer and/or follow me. Whilst opinions vary on STW, I think we’ll all agree this is on the heavier end of the spectrum for touring.

When I think back to how we started out: Kaffenback and a MKI Roadrat I can’t believe the frames put up with it. The roadrat was errr…particuarly whippy…..

The kaffenback was ok: as it was only with 1 child, towing a trailer and no front panniers. The roadrat however did, on one holiday front and rear panniers and a follow me…..Mrs Mugsy’s core strength got a bit of a work-out those 3 weeks….I tried to ride it for 100m and couldn’t believe it….

@cycic-al unfortunately no I’m planning on setting it up for bikepacking. This guy has and it appears to work well.

2013 Salsa Vaya 3 – 5000 Mile Review

There is a nice new frame on eBay

£489

There seems to be a lack of framesets available in my size (Holdsworth Stelvio, Genisis CDF) and although very nice I am struggling to grasp why a Shand frame / forks will set me back ~ £1100 when I could buy a 2017 CDF with 105 kit and discs for £1400.

When I hear the word ‘gravel’ and suitable for ‘light weight touring’ I do wonder what that means.

I can’t help thinking those “rack mounts”, were actually only designed as mudguard mounts, and as the design got passed to the marketing department they magically turned into rack mounts

Having looked at the forks on the Diverges in our hire fleet I’m tempted to agree – except that mudguard mounts are also provided near the axle.

I recently did a trip in the Highlands

Photos. Report. Dammit man, we want details.

Genesis vagabond

Only because I’ve got one and I love it👍

Likewise, but no thru axle.  I find it plenty stiff when loaded though. But prob (like the Fargo) overkill/monstercross territory vs what OP is after?

You can always make a stiffer frame more comfy with bigger tyres and a flexy seat post, but you can’t make a flexy frame any stiffer.

Long back end helps too. My old Rockhopper feels like it always wants to wheelie with a big camping load on the back.

Does anyone have any experience of the Niner RLT 9 Steel or the Kona Sutra Ltd for touring?

I have decided that I don’t actually want a full on tourer as with both front low riders and rear panniers you naturally fill the space available and end up with a heavy setup.

I can get a Niner RLT 9 Steel frameset delivered for £1100, which I said it a lot of cash, but I do like the thru axles and the beefy carbon fork.

I think this depends on whether you want to use the bike as an all-rounder or just for touring.

I’ve had various bikes including the Surly Ogre (which, yes, was too harsh as an all-rounder) and more recently a Surly Straggler, which I’ve run in lots of different configurations.  Both are a lot heavier than a Diverge and I’d only recommend the Straggler as an all-rounder.

I also have a Shand Stooshie, which might be seen as an “adventure” bike by some, but is at the lighter-weight end of the spectrum in my opinion.  I use this as a relaxed road bike with light parts, 28c tyres and mudguards – and wouldn’t tour with significant luggage on it.

I haven’t used my Sutra for touring or loaded up. But I wouldn’t have any worries about doing so, it has a good solid feeling to it.

The thing I am trying to avoid is buying another frame and fork set which when loaded with rear panniers and maybe a front rack feels as flexy as my Diverge.  The Diverge felt plain wrong when loaded and in all honesty I am surprised I didn’t snap something.

Whilst I agree that the holy grail of a single bike / touring bike does not exist, I wonder if the Niner would be a move further towards the touring spectrum and in turn give me something that whilst not as stable as a full touring bike would still pretty good if I was to run front and rear panniers, but with the weight cut down.

In fact, if I could run low riders on the back, handlebar bag for sleep system and either front low riders or anything cages then that would suffice.  I always try to pack light and I could have paired back the amount of gear I took to Scotland.

Not looking for a setup that enables me to take the kitchen sink.

Decisions, decisions …