Spousal Maintenance?

I wonder how many married men would still marry if had their time again. Some for sure.

My mate after getting divorced refused to marry his new girlfriend and even had her paying rent to make it look like she wasn’t a common law wife – not that it made any difference to anything I’m sure.

People tend to remarry but the divorce rates for second marriages do not make happy reading. I can’t really work out how people can afford it all.

One “interesting” piece of advice given to me by a lawyer recently was around “choosing not to work” – kids both been at school for years, nursery before that – she “chose” not to work for the 6-8hrs a day she was free, did next to no housework as that was “weekend stuff” and “shared”, did lunch with Bestie most days, hair done, coloured, etc.
Her “choosing” not to go to work cost her dearly as she couldn’t play the “primary carer” card, etc.
She had every opportunity – including me helping her to set up her own “workshops” with Bestie, advertising, etc – but that was “too much” and “not enough interest to run them…” so that got canned.
As did any hope of her getting 60/40 or even 50/50 – as the main income, running 3 businesses, etc which she didn’t contribute too – she couldn’t ask for anything like the CAB said she could.
Get the BEST family lawyer you can – the rules are changing and quickly…

Thanks again for the replies especially jambalaya and spacemonkey.

I am still hopeful that we can have a reconciliation and am trying my best to work towards that but it would be foolish not to consider my financial position if we do split.

I do value the contribution that my wife has given during our relationship and think that her walking away with enough (60% of our assets) to have a nice, mortgage free house is a fair reward for this – her split would be far more than she would have earned if she had not met me and continued in the job she was doing when we met. I would also pay maintenance for my daughter whilst she remains in education.

I do not want to leave my wife struggling and so would be open to supporting her through a few years of retraining so that should could increase her earning potential.

I was just shocked by the notion that I would be liable to support her until she either re-marries or one of us dies. Unfortunately it seems that this is the case.

My wife has not mentioned spousal support and I am not sure she is even aware of it. She has talked about getting a job if we do split up and I do not anticipate any child access issues but who knows if lawyers get involved and things turn ugly.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered support.

I’m sure she’ll be aware of it but doesn’t want you to think she does. Probably so you see no need in getting a lawyer.

She lies.

I never understand why people get married these days. Half all the people I know that have done it aren’t religious. Do you get tax breaks or something?

She has been the primary carer of your daughter for 8 years, which has allowed you to do the job you have.
I see nothing wrong with her wanting her share of your combined assets and maintenance

Yes but the deal ends when you separate IMHO as it is different

Agreeing to fund someone you are not married to was never part of the deal

Imagine they have an affair and leave you and you still need to pay them !!

Marrage isn’t the problem, having kids is!

My wife’s fallback position in heated arguments was – ‘I’ll divorce you and take 1/2 your money’. My talk of trying to go for a win-win solution to disagreements never worked out.

I was married 5 years or just under. I never had to pay spousal maintenance due to the short time we’d been together. I’d hazard a guess at you just having to pay for your kids maintenance but it will mean putting a roof over there heads. She’ll have to get a job to support herself, as not been together long enough to claim she’s been accustomed to the financial situation. Please note that none of this is professional advice, just based on my personal experience.

@Cletus

Have you suggested going to councelling ? We tried that a few times and it didn’t really help us but if you want to fix things getting some help (or a referee as I called the councellor is a good thing). Once again good luck.

I was just shocked by the notion that I would be liable to support her until she either re-marries or one of us dies. Unfortunately it seems that this is the case.

On this point note that the Mrs can go for a lump sum in leiu, this is generally less than (say) 20 years of £££ but has the downside that if she re-marries in 2 years you’ve overpaid. FYI I didn’t want to agree to a lump sum (and the ex’s lawyer tried to suggest I agree to a % of income rather a fixed amount !!) but I was pushed into it as I was told the judge would not want monthly payments given there where no kids involved just a clean break. Note if you do agree a monthly sum and subsequently get a big pay-rise I believe she can come back for more – you need to check this out with the lawyer.

I never understand why people get married these days. Half all the people I know that have done it aren’t religious. Do you get tax breaks or something?

@jambourgie, there are tax benefits on the death of one of you. Excuse the cynasism but in many cases the girls put pressure on the blokes to get married and eventually the blokes cave in

Ooooooh jambalaya – that really is unfair! Please don’t let your unfortunate experience cloud your way of thinking. Look forward not back, treat each day as a day nearer to a happier place and be at peace with yourself.

Firstly, if you want to save your marriage, do everything in your power to do that but it takes 2 to make or save a marriage.
That way hopefully you will have no regrets but know sometimes it isn’t meant to be.
I would look at your work/life balance. You won’t get any thanks when you are lying on your death bed for the hours you put in and I don’t think many who have been in that position wish they had spent more time at work….
Don’t underestimate the far reaching consequences of divorce either – they can be far worse than you can imagine.
Then if you are still decided on going down the divorce route try to do it as quickly and as amicably as possible….
You need to get away from %age splits as it’s not that straightforward.
The courts will look at the welfare of the children as the utmost priority (rightly so). Who is “at fault” doesn’t come into it as we can all be to blame to some extent.
The financial settlement is known as “ancilliary relief”
and includes for split of assets, property and financial provisions for each spouse and any children. If you can’t agree this between you then the courts have the power to decide for you.
Generally speaking they would try to maintain the level of lifestyle afforded before the split if there’s enough money to go around but this isn’t usually the case. If the children are to live mostly with the mother then that would in your situation would be to provide them with a 3 bedroom house (for example) i.e a bedroom each.
If they are to visit the father every other weekend then a 2 bedroom flat would be seen as sufficient.
The court will try to assess the finances as chucking it all into a big pot, paying all your bills etc to try to leave you with the same disposable income as each other at the end of each month.
If the mother isn’t earning then you would have to carry on providing for her until such a time an adjustment would be considered by the court e.g she gets a job or co-habits with someone else.
Then there are assets, pensions etc that are also up for grabs.
Please don’t be naïve in thinking that your wife doesn’t know this as these decisions you make now could affect you for the rest of your life. By all means be fair and reasonable but get advice from a good family law solicitor. It’s all a bloody nightmare and with the emotion and stress I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown on more than one occasion…..

Here is quite a good resource

@cg, I’m just having a very grumpy day and a thread like this is going to bring a few things back. I’m looking forward to having made a better choice second time around 😀

Sorry – only got a few minutes now (taking daughter to football) will try and post fully later.

Take a look at collaborative law, I used Liz at Divorce Jigsaw[/url] last year. She was recommended by my now ex-wife’s solicitor and was brilliant. The welfare of our daughter was at the centre of everything.

We settled things in 3 face to face sessions, while managing to live in the same house. We now live 1 mile apart, have 50/50 childcare and get on better than we did in the last couple of years of a 10 year marriage. I pay maintenance that we both agreed was fair.

Advice would be:

Try and sort it out – we went to Relate and even though it didn’t save our marriage, it worked – we got a much better end to the relationship.

Put the kids first

It seemed at every point someone is trying to turn it into a conflict that no-one wins – collaborative law avoided that.

A year ago I wouldn’t have believed what I’m writing was possible.

Jambalaya – if it cheers you up (you grumpy old sod!) then I’ve just taken you, quite literally, as an inspiration! I didn’t know what to cook tonight, but I’ve opted for a chorizo and prawn jambalaya. It’s smelling bloody good! 😀

@Cletus

Hope I didn’t sound flippant earlier, just wanted to mention collaborative law. I agree with everything numbnut posted. We both worked very hard to save our marriage, but we’d just grown too far apart. Relate helped us to work through that and get from a point where we were arguing a lot to re-establishing a friendship.

It was ex-smoggy who made the initial decision to separate and I continued to see the Relate counsellor on my own throughout the divorce. I now see that we are both happier than we were and more importantly our daughter feels loved and secure in both homes. We still attend some child related activities together and occasionally babysit for each other.

It was a horrible time for everyone, I realise how lucky I am that ex-smoggy and I managed to come to a truly amicable split. There were times when it was awful and got close to going to court, but we got through it and reached a settlement that we both thought was fair and valued each others contributions to the relationship.

ex-smoggy was entitled to spousal maintenance but elected to take it into account when our assets were split. I do pay maintenance for our daughter even though childcare is 50/50 as I’m the higher earner and it allows ex-smoggy to provide the same standard of living for our daughter at both homes.

Again I’m not trying to sound smug, flippant or advocate divorce. I wish we had spotted the problems in our relationship earlier so it hadn’t come to this. I appreciate that everyone’s situation is different. I sincerely hope you work things out, just trying to show that it is possible to come out the other side without hating each other. We both agree that the guidance from our lawyers was a key part of that.

Good luck!

spacemonkey – Member
Sorry to hear this mate, sounds like a properly sh1t place to be.

However, you say …

One of the major reasons for our problems is the stress caused my job. This will only get worse if we do divorce and I do not know if I have the capability to carry on with it.
… which makes me wonder if you can re-evaluate your job/career if you and your wife feel your relationship/family is strong enough to have another go.
First thing that sprang out on me. If you could sort out the stress/job you may, if you wish to, save the marriage if it is not too late and it is what you want? Need to stop looking at it as a financial arrangement.
Seen too many splits caused by being career orientated.
Although I earn more being a mere spanner monkey MrsT is the “professional career person” in our household complete with the stress etc….We had quite a discussion recently on the effects to her health if she chose to chase the next level and all the travelling and staying away from home that the job entailed.