"Some very impressive engineering to get the cassette down to £115."

Was quite surprised to be called out on my assertion that £115 was beyond what I’d comfortably pay for a cassette and to be told that I was really comparing apples with oranges by daring to suggest that I’d be happier with and XT cassette and an expander cog.

AFAIK, at the top end, I gain the advantage of 10T as opposed to 11T with Shimano. Will I really, really notice that?

Sorry, still out here. You guys go on and fill your boots, I’ve no issue with anyone else spending whatever they like on a cassette. I can see why anyone with 1×11 shipped on a new bike might be excited but I’m sure that we can agree to disagree.

I bodge expensive stuff. Does that mean everybody is sneering at me?

No, that makes you a winner.

I love seeing people not only spend a chunk of cash on something but actually use it. Play with it. take it a part.

Life is too short to keep anything for best.

Several key things:

– Do you want it, can you afford it? If yes, buy it. If no, don’t.
– Are you being forced to buy this? No.
– Do some people like having nice stuff that they have worked hard to buy? Yes.
– Should they be allowed to, even if it doesn’t appeal to you? Yes.
– Are the lizard rulers of the earth controlling the bike industry and forcing this on you? No.

Interested to know how many of the vocal minority criticizing on here have actually tried GX to make an informed decision about the effectiveness of the product before judging.

I switched to X01 18 months ago. It was a game changer for me. A cheaper, more accessible version has to be a positive.

The grumpy ones on here should probably go for a ride with some mates to cheer up a bit.

It will have more features yes, quality will be poorer and it will weigh a ton.

Did you have a low end MTB in the 1980s?

Mine all weighed easily as much as modern equivalents and were constantly needing attention. Like during every ride, several times.

I don’t expect you to admit you’re wrong though.

so this is the 4th from top level group? touted as being kind of SLX level?
and it’s still priced half way between XT and XTR.
and people talk about Shimano not having anything to compete?

glad it’s got both a 1x and 2x option. maybe Shimano was right there in giving multiple options for the front end (that everyone on here said was pointless, because it’s deeply not fashionable right now) ?

Thought I might have been defecting to SRAM, but not at that price. Although RRP and actual retail may differ. 2×10/2×11 XT for me tyvm.

either that or the EU prices mtb-new list on their article are wrong.

and people talk about Shimano not having anything to compete?

Shimano can only offer a much more limited 1x option. The 42 over the 40 is good, the 10t over the 11t is a big difference.

Not sure why 2×11 is that much of a good thing, 2×10 gives you a great range. 1×11 SRAM gives you the best 1x range. Shimano offers you only XTR prices for something you can do with a Hope T-rex etc.

and it’s still priced half way between XT and XTR.

If I’m being honest I haven’t gone below XT/X9 level in a long time, personal preference really but as my gear lasts a long time at the moment I’m happy with that. The local uptake of Sram 11sp tells me they have something right.

Well i’ll split the difference and buy the Praxis works cassette that is due out which goes up to 40t, not bothered about having a 10t top cog for the limited times it would get used and at circa £80 is on a par with a XT cassette plus range extender anyway plus it will fit my current wheels with no mods or extra freehub purchases required.

Just out of interest, I didn’t have a go at, or sneer at, the character of any cyclist.

This is a purely selfish point of view.

I like nice bikes – don’t we all?
But the emergence of a more affluent consumer has given the manufacturers an opportunity to take a cynical approach to profit making.
I think that this, combined with the forced introduction of kitten-killers has made people question their relationship with the industry and media.

And the media is the public face of MTB to those with a wish to get involved, but little knowledge of how much it should cost.
They help to define us.

The demographic has changed to such an extent that £2000 is now regularly quoted by the media as entry level.

This shift alters peoples expectations of how much they need to spend to get into this.
Not just buy a bike, but to feel part of that nebulous ‘community’ that the magazines constantly tell us they represent.

And although complete bikes are good value, the price of spares and the tedious regularity of questionable new standards make things less attractive and more expensive for the financially pushed newbie.

The unquestioning acceptance of the new, the willingness to ignore all expectation of value in that first rush of love is inevitable when you get a large number of newcomers with money to any activity.

I like the fact that more people than ever are cycling.
Cycling’s nice.

Doesn’t mean I have to like the compromises that come with it.

I am sure the owners of Shimano, On one, Merlin, CRC , Gian, Specialized etc are millionaires so i dont get this point. I bet even Superstars owner is one by now.

The point is this is an industry where volumes are small and margins aren’t massive. I don’t doubt Specialized and Giant owners have done ok, but Mike Sinyard has spent 40 years building his bike businesses to a successful international manufacturer, so do you really begrudge someone with that success the reward to match, in any industry?

As for Superstar owners being millionaires, I can only assuming you are taking the piss, if not then it shows just how out of touch some folk are with the profits being made in the industry.

Is a big issue – plenty on here comparing RRP of this to what CRC sell XT for (having presumably not checked what an X1 cassette, RRP £240 sells for on CRC). CBA checking the prices, but I suspect that may also apply to your suggestion that it’s pitched between XT and XTR pricewise.

You seem to be missing the point that the 10T allows you to use a smaller chainring (and then not miss the 9T you’d rarely use) for a lower bottom gear.

Out of interest I went back into old receipts. I paid £50 for a 9 speed XT cassette from CRC in 2010, today I could get an XT 10 speed for under £30. Hardly evidence of increases pricing out the ordinary cyclist.

margins aren’t massive

Compared with what?

but I suspect that may also apply to your suggestion that it’s pitched between XT and XTR pricewise.

GX is listed as €534 2×10 / €698 2×11 RRP
X1 (think that’s the next level up?) is €765 RRP / €590 retail
XT is €320 retail (can’t find RRP, but thought it was about €420)
SLX isn’t even listed any more at either of the 2 stores I use (probably not worth the bother given XT price?)
edit: I lie – SLX full groupset is sold at the price of a SRAM x11 cassette. Retail price, not RRP.

so at those prices, a tiny bit more takes you up one level. yes I expect CRC/Bike24/Wiggle etc. prices to be less, but half the price? I doubt XT retail is half RRP.

7hz – Member
It’s called capitalism.

I call it “increasing the price of stuff because we can get away with it and we’ve run out of ideas to make money out of consumers” – maybe the same thing, I know how I would run a shop.

jmatlock – Member
This place seems to want to belittle people who don’t bodge stuff and buy the cheapest possible solution.

Not at all, I’m just struggling to see the value in this product, when it could easily be made more cheaply.

And to aspire to nice stuff and appriciate it.

This notion does give me a very bad taste.

I’m all for appreciating nice things, if you can afford it, buy it.

But being able to afford nice things being a significant driver for career, work etc. Keeping up with the jones’ and all that rubbish. Nah, definitely not for me.

Experiences/family/friends/memories/riding >>>>>>>>>> than stuff

Most people i know who strive for nice stuff are generally stuck in a rut where they spend their time working to buy stuff, to then have no time to really do anything else other than work and buy stuff.

Yea the cassette may be £100+ and near enough 400g, but you do get a range where 99% of people can drop the weight and the cost of front mech/shifter/multiple rings. I want front mechs to be obsolete, compromises have to be made in frame design to accommodate them, i’m sure this group will aid in making that happen.

As others have stated, im sure this cassette will be readily available for £80, it’ll last 12-18 months with a few chain changes.

Plus chains/cassettes are unexciting, they do a really important job though, though may be boring, but in comparison to a titanium railed saddle, or those £20 lockon grips that last 6 months, they still seem reasonable VFM to me.

That is such a naive POV. You think anyone in any industry is not in it for profit? For as much profit as they can get?

You think it is all just a conspiracy. Are tin foil hats also more expensive these days? And they are a different standard as well.

No, it has made YOU navel-gaze and develop a they-are-out-to-get-me view of the world. Combined with your petty classisim and jealousy, it’s an unattractive combination.

Move to a nice cosy communist country then, where I am sure you can get a new chain for a good price, once you have made an application in triplicate for it and waited 5 years in line.

The whole trite “manufacturers are out to get us” bull that is trotted out in these forums with monotonous regularity is just veiled fear of change. Grow up, accept things change, and get on with it!

7hz – Member

Rusty Spanner » the emergence of a more affluent consumer has given the manufacturers an opportunity to take a cynical approach to profit making.
That is such a naive POV. You think anyone in any industry is not in it for profit? For as much profit as they can get?

In the vast majority of cases.
Do you enjoy paying over the odds for overpriced goods?
I know it reassures some people.

No, it has made YOU navel-gaze and develop a they-are-out-to-get-me view of the world. Combined with your petty classisim and jealousy, it’s an unattractive combination.

I said in my post that the rise in costs was inevitable with the changing demographic:

So, no one is out to get me – don’t be such a drama queen.
🙂
And I have no interest in where people are from, just where they’re at.
I’m not stupid enough to believe that the circumstances of someone’s birth quantifies their worth.

I put family/friends/experiences way before stuff of course.

But I have always been smart with my money, I live within my means. So rather than waste it on tat and junk, I save it up and buy nice stuff. Compared to many on here my bike isn’t in anyway special. But it’s my pride and joy, exactly how I want to it to be.

For me the ownership and the tinkering and the swapping is part of the experience of cycling. New shiny stuff fascinates me, any advances in tech are a good thing for the industry.

Grow up, accept things change, and get on with it!

:yawn:

Mince tax ain’t it, these massive cassettes are still aimed at all the fannies not strong enough to 1×10…

Aye, but it’s only 8speed that’s mince tax free 😉

£6.99

Stronger and lighter too

I’m about to spend £3k on my new bike. I’m no spring chick and likely this will be my last ever full bike purchase.
There’s not a chance of it leaving the shop with any derivative of SRAMs 1×11.
If it were sold to compete with Shimano, as opposed to being marketed at folk, with all this elitist bullshit, about feats of engineering and with as much though to compatibility as our cat is capable of, then maybe I’d consider it.
Meantime I’ll happily use both thumbs and burn a nano calorie or two, to pedal me overweight, antiquated drive train up the hill.
I’d sooner buy a Shimano chain and cassette every few months and stick a tank of fuel in the van to go somewhere on the difference thanks.

I’m not old enough for 8 speed…9 speed will be clamped down on at teh ENDURO racing soon.

I’m just struggling to see the value in this product, when it could easily be made more cheaply.

Easily how? You may be right, I’m genuinely curious to know how you would propose they do it more cheaply?

FFS Doug.

Exactly the same way shimano manages to make 8 separate sprockets for an hg41. pin a chunk of them together, add a lock ring and punt them out at an rrp of £14.99

Thank you Gary

Laughing at the whole “shimano is soooo limited” garbage. It’s an extra gear FFS, it’s not going to make any of us faster (unless there are elite XC racers amongst us). If you want it, and have the money to throw at it, fair enough but dressing it up as anything other than plain old shiney-want is nonsense.
EDIT; £100 FOR A ****ING CHAINRING!!!!!! IN WHOSE WORLD IS THAT OK?!?!?! 😉

Yeah but 11!!! ELEVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It goes to eleven FFS! It’s cutting edge, 11, count ’em, eleven, it’s the perfect number!

How many times can you read eleven before it loses all meaning, eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven eleven!!11!

As others have stated, im sure this cassette will be readily available for £80

hope that’s true.
the 3 higher level 11sp SRAM cassettes are all over €200 retail here. indeed those 3 levels are so close in pricethey could probably reduce the range to a €200+ pro race bling model, and a €99 or £80 punter model.
XTR just pops in with a euro change from a €200 note.

I guess Shimano a re a bit on the back foot, and SRAM can cash in on fashion right now. It’ll reverse when Shimano cashes in on 13sp cassette patents.

You seem to be missing the point that the 10T allows you to use a smaller chainring (and then not miss the 9T you’d rarely use) for a lower bottom gear.

Not really as I get by alright at the moment with 30t at the front and 36t at the back so realistically I dont even need the bigger range that the Praxis cassette would give never mind the Sram one.
The 11t Cog only ever gets rare use when doing on road bits so a 10t or smaller would only ever get the same amount of use IMO.
For me it would be a awful lot of money to spend for very limited use.

Exactly the same way shimano manages to make 8 separate sprockets for an hg41. pin a chunk of them together, add a lock ring and punt them out at an rrp of £14.99

Not as easy to make it reasonably light and cheap with that SRAM freehub design. Needs a lot of suport for the middle section sprockets, something Shimano get from having a simple splined freehub so they only need 3 or 4 pins to hold the whole cassette together. I guess SRAM could use a std freehub and do it the Shimano way but everyone would complain that it weighed 600g.

Exactly the same way shimano manages to make 8 separate sprockets for an hg41. pin a chunk of them together, add a lock ring and punt them out at an rrp of £14.99

I was hoping for some more detailed analysis of production methods than a comparison with something that’s been made for the last 20 years or so.
I’m fairly sure the initial fixed costs for the HG41 cassette are paid for by now, if not the accountants should probably be sacked.

Given its you, it’s probably unlikely we’ll come to any sort of agreement here 😆

Looking at the cassette alone is missing the point. Once you start thinking of it as replacing a cassette, two rings, a front mech, a shifter and a cable it starts to look reasonable.

I don’t get the ‘the bike manufacturers are taking the pee pee’ line of thought. All they are doing is offering choice. You can still buy a great mountain bike for 700 quid which will do you for years and you can ride most trails on.

As for this bit of kit, it’ll be down to 70 quid or so before you know it, which puts it smack in the ‘xt and expander cog’ price range. That said I’ still trying to work out the benefits of a 10 tooth at the back, unless you are charging down a fire road.

I’m still struggling to work out what’s so bad about a front mech that folk actually struggle to set one up.

Pretty fair point for a cyclepath cruiser like you druid.

ac282 – Member
Looking at the cassette alone is missing the point. Once you start thinking of it as replacing a cassette, two rings, a front mech, a shifter and a cable it starts to look reasonable.

Yeah just ignore the fact its one sprocket more than those 10 speed cassettes at a quarter of the price.

scotroutes – Member

I’m still struggling to work out what’s so bad about a front mech that folk actually struggle to set one up.

i’m at my wits end with the ****ing bas***d front mech on my wife’s road bike.

*the outer cage is parallel with the outer chainring, there’s a 2mm gap over the top.

*the lower limit is set so that the cage is 1/4 turn away from ‘tickling’ when the chain is on the smallest chainring and biggest sprocket.

*it’s a new cable, in new outer, it’s all clean and greased up.

*it’s a new sti, which feels fine.

*the front mech moves easily enough, and moves so much that the chain is fully smooshed up against the ramps and pins on the next chainring

but it just won’t ****ing shift up.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111.

😆

Pay the idiot tax and go 11-speed then 😆