So who went to a fee paying school here?

working in Tesco's would pay for it

Dont talk shite!!

How much are the fees?

Google suggests:

verage annual boarding charges stand at £24,009 and day fees £10,713

10 grand a year disposable income when working in tesco's sorry but you sound detached from reality

Love the tags:

'plumbs in mouth'

What, so privately schooled types have an array of pipework and valves in our mouths? I'm not sure I understand…

10 grand a year disposable income when working in tesco's sorry but you sound detached from reality

Maybe he's referring to some sort of managerial position?!

10 grand a year disposable income when working in tesco's sorry but you sound detached from reality

No I'm referring to the fact my wife wasn't working, and therefore her just going back to work paid for the school fees – and its nothing like that when they are younger, and only just now at that level now he's in senior school.

And yes while I/we've always earnt far more than the average (somebody has to, to make it an average), we've not spent/wasted it like many I see.

seems like you cannot quite bring yourself to say that the proles are just lazy good for nothings.

Probably because fecklessness isnt about background and anyone can have it tough.

Probably because fecklessness isnt about background and anyone can have it tough.

You'll have to explain how this is related to my point.

br your wife went out and got a job, thats not scrimping and saving to me thats just normality. Your attitude speaks volumes as far as I can see, private education is a huge privilidge out of the reach of the majority, if you can afford it good luck but if you could lay of the "we scrimped and saved" garbage I would be happier, not that you should care what I think really which is kind of my point.

br your wife went out and got a job, thats not scrimping and saving to me thats just normality. Your attitude speaks volumes as far as I can see, private education is a huge privilidge out of the reach of the majority, if you can afford it good luck but if you could lay of the "we scrimped and saved" garbage I would be happier, not that you should care what I think really which is kind of my point.

anagallis_arvensis

I didn't say anything about scrimping/saving, just commenting that others spend/waste their money differently…

But since you brought the subject up, I could have just done an easy local job rather than the +70 hour weeks with many nights away all across the globe!

And since I was laid off, its my wife that's been working flat out.

Private Education is not a priviledge, its something that you choose and pay for, along with paying for everyone else.

Private Education is not a priviledge

righto

If private education is not a privelege, then I struggle to understand the following:
Backgrounds of the majority of the attendees not being of the Council variety
Accents of the majority of the attendees being Queens English or something approximating it
That what you've basically described is that your wife went to work for the sole purpose of paying nothing but the fees (therefore indicating you paid for everything else and earnt a pretty penny)
That if it's so damn easy to pay for places in private schools, why every middle class family isn't doing it
Why there is a need for scholarships at all

If all you have in your purse at the end of the month is 2p, you've applied for every job going in the local paper but every job going is 10 posts, so lots of applicants, then where exactly do you suggest someone manages to scrimp and save from exactly?

As far as I'm concerned, if you're smart enough to get a well paid job which allows you to 'scrimp and save' to send your kids to private school, good on you. But expecting everyone else to be smart enough is a bit um….well, silly.

why every middle class family isn't doing it?

That's pretty obvious isn't it?
There are some serious sacrifices being made across middle England and some parent's clearly aspire for their children to have a better education than the local authority can provide.

This might mean the household has little or no disposable income once the fees have been met, but the parents have ascertained that their children are bright enough, motivated enough (and let's be honest here, not all kids are) & should therefore get the best education that can be afforded. It also suggests that the local schools, in the parent's eyes, simply aren't good enough for Little Jonny.

This is very much a life-style choice and not something many middle England families manage, for a myriad of reasons. Take away the bulk of the families income and see what’s left in the kitty. If after that you decide that Little Jonny can manage in the local Comp, in turn meaning Ma & Pa & the rest of the family do not have to do without, then that is also a life-style choice.

Choices. Pure & simple. If you don't think Little Jonny will reach his potential locally and you can pay, then clearly some decide to dig deep and pay up. It's nice to be in that position I'd say!

I'd agree entirely with that. I was more pointing out that being able to afford to scrimp and save to even hope of saving 10k a year, is a position of privelege that not everyone enjoys. I'm not saying everyone should enjoy it, I'm simply saying that thinking it's an avenue open to everyone if they just try hard enough is silly.

I'm going to be bluntly honest as to my beliefs re private schools…

I pay for my kids education to give them every possible (unfair) advantage ie I pay to have the names of their institutions on their CV's in the future to give them a leg up above all the other induviduals who will come out with the same results (or possibly higher).

If their schools give them unfair advantage then so be it, job done.

I know it's ethically wrong, but the state system is largely sh1te (despite the fact that there are some amazing teachers working in the state system – system failure as opposed to teaching failure) so I choose to work two jobs to put my kids in private schools (and give them advantages that I never had).

There are some other major advantages like brilliant teaching where the kids are encouraged to love learning first and foremost, they are in classes with a max of 16 kids, the sports facilities are fantastic, they learn languages from the age of 5, they can choose music lessons including piano and violin from the age of 6 etc etc plus plus plus. They love going to school and everyday seems full and exciting for them.

Some people spend their money on expensive cars, some on large houses, some on class A drugs; I spend mine on my kids' schooling (and live in a small house and drive an older car).

I pay to have the names of their institutions on their CV's in the future to give them a leg up above all the other induviduals who will come out with the same results

I genuinely don't think this happens, or at least enough to warrant paying for it. If you pay for private school, you should mostly be paying to get the kid the A-levels s/he needs to get into Uni. Once they've finished Uni, it's the prestige of their uni and the quality of their degree that will be judged – I don't think having gone to Spofford Prep and the Chalmondleigh School will cut much ice just because it appears on the CV.

kb, you're right which is why I pay for places at feeder schools that have some of the best Oxbridge/Redbrick entrance volumes in the UK! I didn't mean their current institutions, as they are partly a means to an end, not too bothered about the names of their current schools!

Ohhh, I see…

It's more than A levels though. That's wht you see kids getting rejected with straight As when they apply to oxbridge. It's not the name of the school though, it's the extra curricular activities that are offered and how this looks on your application. It's also people taking the time to coach in how to apply and practice interviews so it's not so scary when you arrive.

It was easier for poorer families to get into private schools if their children were clever enough before Labour scrapped the assisted places scheme.

As far as unis go, I agree about the interviewing practice to an extent but not about the extracurricular guff. But then again, my opinion and yours is probably not as helpful as the opinion of an oxbridge interviewer.

FWIW, my old (private school) economics teacher always said that the Assisted Places schemes were just a fiddle for the middle classes. I have no experience/ insight/ knowledge of the schemes but assume he had more than most.

squin, well said and good luck to you. Even with my views on private education I am often suprised at my good comp in middle england that parents arrive to pick up kids in 40 grand cars, if I had 40 grand to spend on a car I would have to seriously think about sending the foetus (thats an announcement by the way) to private school.

As far as better teachers go, given private schools pay less in general and the pension isnt as good I think the best teachers are to be found in the state sector, all the teachers I know who have gone to the private sector have done it because they could cope with behaviour problems. Also Uni's are increasingly takning account of the school you go to and will expect more from kids who have been to "better" schools.

+1 squin

Its my money and my choice of where I spend it.

That said, if he'd always gone to state school there'd be a Bentley Continental on the drive rather than a 12 year old Beemer.

A couple of points I'd like to comment on:

anagallis_arvensis – Member
I would however never consider working at one or sending my kids to one as I dont agree with them on a moral basis, again being a teacher I reckon I'll be able to help my kids achieve anyway

So its okay for you as a teacher to give your kids extra help but other parents who aren't teachers shouldn't be allowed to pay for that help?

And these two quotes made me chuckle:

anagallis_arvensis – Member
I would however never consider working at one or sending my kids to one as I dont agree with them on a moral basis

anagallis_arvensis – Member
if I had 40 grand to spend on a car I would have to seriously think about sending the foetus (thats an announcement by the way) to private school.

Thats some hypocrisy there…

Oh and congratulations (-:

I have nothing against people wanting the best for their kids, I will try and do the best for mine. I do however think public schools are wrong but sometimes we have to put our morals on the backburner as I am not in charge of the country and no one who shares my view is ever likely to be. However seeing as I doubt I'll ever be able to afford to pay for my kid to go to private school I doubt its a dilemma I'll ever have to wrestle with. If that makes me a hypocrite then I am. Further, if you read my posts you will see I have never suggested anyone shouldnt send their kids to a private school I simply objected to those who suggest its not a privilege and someone working in tesco's could afford it and it was just about making the choice to no spend money elsewhere.

having enough disposable income to pay the fee's isn't enough. unless your lifestyle is up with the majority, your child will face social exclusion, not necessarily of the voluntary nasty type, but more that they haven't got ponies, ski holidays, homes in the algarve etc. feeling different isn't a great feeling when you're a child.

anagallis_arvensis

And most teachers employed at private schools get seriously discounted (often free) places for their kids at the school where they teach.

One of my colleagues has put no1 child into private school, but can't afford to put no2 child into one so he's gone to the local state junior. I see some interesting times ahead for them, both in terms of sibling issues and what happens when the massive recession hits in 6 months time.

br, I expect you may be right. Maybe I should have applied for that job at eton!! I fear I may go postal and start killing kids if I did though 😈

aP

Thats just wrong, either all or none, unless there are medical/others issues.

but more that they haven't got ponies, ski holidays, homes in the algarve etc. feeling different isn't a great feeling when you're a child.

Rubbish! I went to 3 (fairly expensive) fee paying schools on an assisted place – my family never had/did those things and no-one cared indeed most didn't. Maybe if we're talking about one of the £30k schools though?

One of my colleagues has put no1 child into private school, but can't afford to put no2 child

Not sure if this is worse but one of my mates at my last fee paying school was the only one from his family to go – the girls had to make do with the local comp – was it because they were girls?!

but more that they haven't got ponies, ski holidays, homes in the algarve etc. feeling different isn't a great feeling when you're a child.

Which is similar to me getting on my high horse when my state school puts on ski trips for the kids…….. really really pisses me off that.

Which is similar to me getting on my high horse when my state school puts on ski trips for the kids…….. really really pisses me off that.

Is there room for another on that horse?
I also agree that if you work for your money, you choose what you spend it on, and if that's a private school for your kids, fair play, well done, you've probably given them a far better chance of a better life in the future.

I'm just a leftie who thinks more than whatever percentage of the population of Britain gets that chance, should. So maybe what I'm actually cross at is the fact that the state system is in such disarray that people need to scrimp and save so desperately, in some cases, to send their children to private schools for them to have any hope of a good education. A good education shouldn't be dependant on income of parents, because then, surely, you're assuming that no smart kid is ever born to parents without the intelligence to earn a lot of money.

As mentioned earlier I now work in the private sector, so I don't have an axe to grind. However Loulouk, with regard to your comment about "the state system being in disarray" – you are talking bollox!

I was starting in teaching in '97 at the time of the last change government. During 97-99 when GB stuck to the tory spending plans not a lot changed and from then on, MASSIVE changes in terms of facilities & staffing. I genuinely think state schools have never been better than they are today. Yes, there are some schools in some areas that are not as "good" as others but that is a reflection of the communities they serve and has always been that way. By that I mean that most of the school deemed as rubbish are so damned not because of the job they are doing, but by the raw material they are working with – it is very hard to give the best education to kids coming to school with dire expectations and parents similarly entrenched. In terms of value added I would suggest most inner city schools that have a poor reputation with Daily Mail reading Britain, which I suspect are the type of institutions are alluding to, do a damned good job. The only thing that has changed that might have folks like you spouting such rubbish is that our expectations have risen faster than our desire to pay tax, not the schools getting worse. I have simply have no idea how you can use words such "disarray" unless you have little knowledge or experience of education standards now and in the past – I can only presume rose tinted specs thinking of bygone times that didn't exist!

Um. No, no rose tinted spectacles, just listening to the teachers and lecturers I know who work in schools around the country, some in inner cities and some in rural areas.
Maybe they all just happen to work in schools which are in disarray, but disarray they are in. One of them is permanently disabled from an attack from a pupil and is subjected to verbal and physical abuse on a monthly basis. I don't remember that happening in the school I went to 15 years ago.

My comments are only based on my personal experience. And I read The Guardian. Sorry.

konabunny – Member
As far as unis go, I agree about the interviewing practice to an extent but not about the extracurricular guff. But then again, my opinion and yours is probably not as helpful as the opinion of an oxbridge interviewer

Mrs MFL interviews for teaching courses at an ex-teaching college, now a "university", and the extracurricular guff does make a difference to their candidates, they're stupidly over subscribed and look for what makes a candidate stand out above others. Whether it is voluntary work, music, part time work, hobbies doesn't really matter, they look for someone who stands out a bit more than a straight A* pupil.

And there was your first mistake – teachers are a terminally miserable,pessimistic bunch and will always see the negative in everything and think no one has it harder than they do right now! I know, I am one! Get one in a confined space and persuade them to remember past last Wednesday to the 80's, teaching in a leaking portacabin, with no money for textbooks or photocopying or a little further back to where more than half the population were fobbed off with cheap to run but worthless CSEs, and I'll show you proper disarray!

None of them taught in the 80's :O) I went to school in the 90's, um, we're kind of all in the 30-40 age bracket and I sat GCSE's. It just feels like violence is a lot more prevalent, but maybe that is a perception thing, and not reality.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend, I honestly didn't. I couldn't do your job ffs, I'd be crying in the corner within 2 minutes.

having enough disposable income to pay the fee's isn't enough. unless your lifestyle is up with the majority, your child will face social exclusion, not necessarily of the voluntary nasty type, but more that they haven't got ponies, ski holidays, homes in the algarve etc. feeling different isn't a great feeling when you're a child.

sorry, that's just a very blinkered view and not even close to my experience or from the other people I know who went to public school. Including Eton FWIW. That's not to say it never happens – there'll always be a few idiots – but it's not the norm so not a real issue.

little johnny here

I went to a fee paying independant single sex school. It has the words "Queen" "Elizabeth" and "Grammar" in its name; the word "boys" was omitted

It was OK

I left at 17 (a year early) with 10 O levels and 4 A levels. No fantastic grades, no bad ones either. Went to university and blobbed – too busy having fun with the old sex&drugs&rock'n'roll (well, not so much the drugs)

my parents split when I was 5, but my dad made the contributions to the fees. Elder sister went to a local state Grammar school, which was turned into a comp before I was due to go there; younger sister went to the female equivalent of my school, for which again my dad paid the fees

Did I get a better education than I would have got at a state school? Dunno
Did I suffer? not at the time, but afterwards, hell yes. Girls? f*** me they're aliens and they don't even speak English. Well, not as we boys knew it…

Made up for that in the next 6 years though!!!!

Would I send my own kids to such a school? No. not unless it had gone co-ed; IMO separating boys from girls to give them a better academic experience can backfire in the most spectacular way – all the A Levels & GCSEs in the world mean nothing if you can't communicate with 50% of the population

I'm actually cross at is the fact that the state system is in such disarray that people need to scrimp and save so desperately, in some cases, to send their children to private schools for them to have any hope of a good education.

They don't, they just think they do (because they read the Daily Mail too much :P)

Just out of interest, did any of the parents here who chose to send their kids to a private school consider supplementing state school with private tuition instead?

A trend that seems to be getting worse is piling huge pressure in kids to pass exams to get into the right school – I took my entrance exams aged 11 – it was pretty nerve wracking – but fortunately passed. The alternative was a pretty poor school.

However I was badgered by parents a lot afterwards wanting tips on what was in the entrance exam – they were spending fortunes and piling pressure on their kids to pass the exams. I just took them – if I'd failed, so be it.

So while private schools can be good, if your kid can't get in without tonnes of tuition and extra pressure, just let them go to the alternative – if the parents are stable, they'll probably be fine.

We have a good choice of schools here – both private and state (Truro, Cornwall) and are still undecided. Fees are obviously a consideration but not really an issue – it'll simply be what we feel is best for our little one. Private schooling can lead to unbalanced kids with serious attitude – parents often are to blame. I know just as many comp kids with straight As for GCSE and A level as I do private school kids.

When I moved from a nice part of Surrey to a not so nice part of London when I was 12 I thought if I went to a local comp I wouldn't survive; I was most happy I got into the public school I managed to get into – even though they had Saturday school!